New dangerous tackle memo to referees

[smartcooky]

The IRB have addressed the issue of players grabbing opponents, not in possession at tackle/ruck/maul, around the neck and shoulders in a dangerous manner. This is a response to a number of incidents earlier this year including this one....



You can read the full memo here.

http://www.rugbyrefs.com/content.php?185-Memo-Dangerous-Tackles-August-2011

 

[ranger]

Welp, theres one effective technique a smaller player can use at ruck time gone.. Not a happy chappy right here.

 

[TRF C A Iversen]

The IRB have addressed the issue of players grabbing opponents, not in possession at tackle/ruck/maul, around the neck and shoulders in a dangerous manner. This is a response to a number of incidents earlier this year including this one....



You can read the full memo here.

http://www.rugbyrefs.com/content.php?185-Memo-Dangerous-Tackles-August-2011

I'm pleased to hear it, but the "smashed 'im bro" crowd won't be happy. Mind you they'd all be part of the silent "I had nothing to do with supporting that" crowd, when people get paralysed or maybe even killed if it's allowed to evolve.

 

[Shaggy]

Yep, safety first as far as i'm concerned ... hopefully this should achieve some consistence in how these incidents are treated, and lessen these types of incidents

 

[Sam Owen]

Yeah thats OFF the ball and extremely not necessary. When I first read this post I thought they were getting rid of the hits or the dump tackle but thats not the case, so whew to that.

 

[InsaneAsylum]

hope they enforce this in mauls too. see it all too often.

 

[ranger]

I'm pleased to hear it, but the "smashed 'im bro" crowd won't be happy. Mind you they'd all be part of the silent "I had nothing to do with supporting that" crowd, when people get paralysed or maybe even killed if it's allowed to evolve.

I think you will find its quite the opposite. For one its not really the kind of highlight play that they like watching and also this technique has evolved as a means to counter the big smashmouth players and the like.
If there is a huge behemouth over the ball, its very hard to push him back off it straight through without momentum. The reality of rugby is that you aren't in a position to take much momentum into the average ruck, so grappling a player and spinning his weight off to the side instead of straight forward becomes an effective tactic.
The correct way to perform this type of "judo" clearout is to grasp the player around the torso and under the armpit, but you can tell from a mile away that referees will just start blowing up penalties when players start spinning regardless of if its around the head or not.

This just promotes the selection of more brawn over skill players and more aggressive "attack" based tactics in counter rucking. It makes the "stand at the ruck and weigh lots" approach the best for ball retention

 

[nickdnz]

I almost use a similar technique every ruck I go to, except I try to get over the top, hug them from around the abdomin and then roll team. It seems to work very well, but that being said I'm a big guy. I agree that the neck can be a bit dangerous, and I tend to respond very aggressivly if someone twists my neck.

The correct way to perform this type of "judo" clearout is to grasp the player around the torso and under the armpit, but you can tell from a mile away that referees will just start blowing up penalties when players start spinning regardless of if its around the head or not.

This just promotes the selection of more brawn over skill players and more aggressive "attack" based tactics in counter rucking. It makes the "stand at the ruck and weigh lots" approach the best for ball retention

Yep, that's the way I always have done it.


Pfft, I've put in the hard yards, eaten the burgers, drank the beers, fainted getting cramps during jogs...about time I saw the results.

 

[Black Heart]

Would this article simply be better written in Afrikaans?

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

TBH I'm surprised there wasn't anything previsouly in the rules relating to playing a player around the head/neck area. And like earlier posted its something you see at rolling mauls as well; it's almost as if I can't picture a rolling maul without seeing someones arm around Andries Bekker's neck LOL.

Black Heart, that comment is a bit unfair IMO as the only Afrikaans player I can think of that was involved in such an incident is Jannie du Plessis. Fair enough that and the one involving Michael Rhodes were the two most blatant ones and both SA players but its still an unfair generalisation.

Now if we can sort out the high tackles from the Ausies as well that'd be great; go watch our game against them in Durban and count the number of high tackles and tip tackles not penalized... shocking.

 

[TRF_heineken]

So.... Every rugby player should grow long dreadlocks and wait for some hairpulling!

 

[nickdnz]

So.... Every rugby player should grow long dreadlocks and wait for some hairpulling!

If your going to throw an insult, at least make it obvious who you're insulting. It's like prank calling someone while calling collect, you can't make the victim do the work.

You're either insulting Jerry Collins for his fair pull on George Smith or Dean Hall on Rodney So'oialo...I'm going to take a guess it's the first one.

 

[TRF_heineken]

If your going to throw an insult, at least make it obvious who you're insulting. It's like prank calling someone while calling collect, you can't make the victim do the work.

You're either insulting Jerry Collins for his fair pull on George Smith or Dean Hall on Rodney So'oialo...I'm going to take a guess it's the first one.

Or the countless of hairpulls in the currie cup to John Mametsa, the Ndungane Brothers and Todd Clever...

 

[smartcooky]

I almost use a similar technique every ruck I go to, except I try to get over the top, hug them from around the abdomin and then roll team. It seems to work very well, but that being said I'm a big guy. I agree that the neck can be a bit dangerous, and I tend to respond very aggressivly if someone twists my neck.

Its called a "saddle roll"



Its a legal (and relatively safe) technique for cleaning out, although I would argue that you are willfully going off your feet at the tackle, so you had better make sure you roll the fetcher well clear of the tackle area so that the offence is immaterial and won't be pinged.

Where the technique becomes dangerous is when you wrap around the neck of the fetcher instead of the torso (as per the Michael Rhodes example that I posts at the start.

It also could get dangerous at the "grass roots" when a big strong player grabs a much small lighter player, and even if the technique is carried out legally around the torso, it could still seriously injure the opponent.

This is another example of an illegal action covered by this memo (note who it is).



I know he wasn't cited, but that is only because it was not deemed a red card offence. But it would definitely be a yellow card if he had been seen by the referee or touch judge under this memo.

 

[ranger]

Its called a "saddle roll"



Its a legal (and relatively safe) technique for cleaning out, although I would argue that you are willfully going off your feet at the tackle, so you had better make sure you roll the fetcher well clear of the tackle area so that the offence is immaterial and won't be pinged.

Where the technique becomes dangerous is when you wrap around the neck of the fetcher instead of the torso (as per the Michael Rhodes example that I posts at the start.

It also could get dangerous at the "grass roots" when a big strong player grabs a much small lighter player, and even if the technique is carried out legally around the torso, it could still seriously injure the opponent.

This is another example of an illegal action covered by this memo (note who it is).



I know he wasn't cited, but that is only because it was not deemed a red card offence. But it would definitely be a yellow card if he had been seen by the referee or touch judge under this memo.

Its very hard to tell the difference between a legal and illegal preformance of the saddle roll. You can tell whos going to get the benefit of the doubt..

 

[smartcooky]

Its very hard to tell the difference between a legal and illegal preformance of the saddle roll. You can tell whos going to get the benefit of the doubt..

Not really ranger.

► Grasp the opposing player around the torso, with both arms below his armpits and you're fine.

► Grasp the opposing player around the neck, with one or both arms above his armpits and PING?


Its very obvious when the player has does it illegally. If the referee cannot tell the difference, then he doesn't deserve to have a whistle in his hands.

 

[ranger]

Not really ranger.

► Grasp the opposing player around the torso, with both arms below his armpits and you're fine.

► Grasp the opposing player around the neck, with one or both arms above his armpits and PING?


Its very obvious when the player has does it illegally. If the referee cannot tell the difference, then he doesn't deserve to have a whistle in his hands.

Its not that obvious at all. The distance between the head and torso is a matter of centimetres, and since its off the ball the referee isn't likely to be paying close attention to the exact area. The time when a referee would be able to tell the difference is while the player is grasping, which would be in amongst the tangles of a ruck and hard to tell anyway. All the referee needs to see is the end result, a player spinning out of a ruck dramatically and their will be whistles, i guarantee it.

 

[Thingimubob]

Never really seen this tactic in Magners, Heineken or International matches, that first video was horrible! Could've very very easily ended very very badly.
Anyway nearest use of a similar tactic I've seen is this from Ospreys vs Treviso at the start of last season:

 

[ridzy]

It looks like something out of UFC or cagefighting, whether its a crocodile deathroll or upside-down choke hold neck twister, you decide and leave your comments below. Do you think the reaction by Piutau with the punches were validated by the MMA action of Rhodes?

“Pro football is like nuclear warfare. There are no winners, only survivors.â€

 

[TRF_heineken]

It looks like something out of UFC or cagefighting, whether its a crocodile deathroll or upside-down choke hold neck twister, you decide and leave your comments below. Do you think the reaction by Piutau with the punches were validated by the MMA action of Rhodes?

"Pro football is like nuclear warfare. There are no winners, only survivors."

Funny you should say that, I know when Gert Smal was the forwards coach of the Springboks he once got a Greco-roman wrestler to teach the guys some "Saddle roll" techniques...

Since then a lot of coaches has implemented these type of techniques in SA.