Nelson Mandela's health issues

[TRF_heineken]

I understand why Alex would want to start this thread - I was actually wondering the same myself. Many world figures have been judged internationally as being "good" or "bad", but often the opinion of them in their own countries is far less black and white. I, for one, wasn't sure whether Mandela was as respected by white South Africans (which I think both SA posters here are?) as he is by bascially everyone else in the world. It is actually great to see that he is.

People have a seriously bad perception of the Apartheid-regime and what white South Africans think of it and the recent changes.

The modern white South African will show respect and appreciatio. For what Madiba did.

You should actually ask the old Black people what are their thoughts and many of them would say SA was a better place during Apartheid. But that is an entire different topic which I wouldn't want to go into right now.

I was born when Apartheid was nearly at its end, and I didn't grow up with it. I was in school with both white and black pupils. I can speak a bit of one of the native Languages (Northern Sotho). And I understand when people speak it to me.

Once again the misconception was made by the international media. That being said, there are still a lot of hate crimes with the latest one the Kotze-case now at the courts. The K-word is still in people's vocabulary, but it isn't being said, or used.

The biggest fear people have is that the ANC will start a new Apartheid-regime. I personally think that it will never happen, and these talks about the "night of the long knives" are made up stories by old White South Africans, to keep the youth in a state of fear.

The respect for Madiba is great! I respect him more than the pope! He is a father-figure and he is an idol. People have been idolizing him for decades, now that he is nearly at his end, it is fitting that they show tribute, and interest.

Everyone wishes him not to die, as a living Icon bears so much more prestige than a dead one. A fallen idol's

 

[smartcooky]

Well said Heine.

As one with relations in the Republic, I think you are right in the money with this.

I think world perception with regard to the state of racism in South Africa was clouded by the amount of coverage people like Eugene Terre'Blanche and his AWB cronies got in the first decade or so after the founding of the new South Africa. They were a small minority that made a a lot of noise and were accorded far more foreign news coverage than they deserved. Meanwhile, your average white South African was just never heard from, a sort of silent majority.

 

[Big Ewis]

This is the worst post you have ever written! It leaves a very bad taste in my mouth!!

Let me explain what has been going on as it seems that the international media is reporting it the wrong way as usual.

He's 95 years old. He has been in hospital for 21 days. This last week has been touch and go as he went from a stable condition to critical. On Wednesday his family had a meeting in his hometown of Qunu. But the meeting wasn't about him, it was about his 2 grandchildren that has died last year, and the process of moving their graves to his hometown village where the other Mandela-families are buried.

Yesterday his condition got better, but there is no real change visible.

I think everyone should just relax. The reason why he gets this much attention is because he has had such a major impact on so many people's lives. Blacks, Whites, Coloureds, Indians, Asians, Gays, Straight, Islam, Christian, etc. for many he is a father figure, and many see him as a sort of architect of the modern Democracy. (Bear in mind that he wasn't alone, he had help of former president FW De Klerk).

He is a Nobel Peace Prize winner, and has had many accomplishments. Let the people pay tribute, let the people drag on this extended illness and report on every small detail. It's better than hearing about North Korea!!!

Let them indulge in this Great Man's life.

And yoe, please grow up!

nice post there son, feel good ? Spewed out enough self-righteous bigotry ? Enough political correctness ? It's therapeutic, you know. Pick the scapegoat who speaks the truth, and vomit a bunch of irrelevant facts he never questioned in the first place. You feel good, don't you, coz you've told some mean-minded user on the internet off, what an accomplishment ! A long post of self-righteous, pseudo-moralistic lecture. You must be such a 'good person' in life, I can see that now. Oh, how blind could I have been ? :lol:

And you're telling...ME....to grow up ?! :rofl:

"It's better than hearing about North Korea" ???.....like there's a choice in the news ? North Korea too boring for you ?...It's the REAL WORLD boy ! That's what's happening in the world right now, not some old man, however great, gradually decaying on TV with breaking news every 30 seconds.

And LittleGuy, seemingly the last one with common sense: yes, obviously I'm not sitting there with a voodoo doll trying to provoke Mandela's death. I'm saying he's a man, will die soon (is basically clinically dead) so we can move on, both his family and the world.
How quick ppl are with their weak judgment ! As long as there's something or someone to point at.
Makes me sick.

But go on, talk Mandela's current state...it's fascinating apparently.

 

[Howzy]

Once again there's arguements

 

[TRF_heineken]

Well said Heine.

As one with relations in the Republic, I think you are right in the money with this.

I think world perception with regard to the state of racism in South Africa was clouded by the amount of coverage people like Eugene Terre'Blanche and his AWB cronies got in the first decade or so after the founding of the new South Africa. They were a small minority that made a a lot of noise and were accorded far more foreign news coverage than they deserved. Meanwhile, your average white South African was just never heard from, a sort of silent majority.

Yeah, the AWB and the Boeremag are minorities, every country has them, the US has the KKK.

That's the way I was brought up, you shut up about things like war and hate. Those things don't have a place in the dining room. My dad was in the Border war. My Grandfather was in WWII. They don't talk about those terrible things.

My mom's dad was a minister and he worked in the townships, assisting with the rural areas and teaching the black ministers about the Bible. He was a professor at the University of Pretoria and the University of the North and helped a lot with the defence force during the Border war.

We don't really talk because nobody really asks us. They report about the AWB and those guys because they don't get asked, and don't want to be asked. They want to be heard, they go out of their way to make sure they get their message across.

My Dad was asked to represent some of the Boeremag guys during their trial, but he turned them down as he didn't want be associated with them, even though one of them was my grandmother's doctor at the old age home where she spent her last years.

We really don't want a war, civil or any other kind. We just want what is best for SA. We will be happy if we could go to work, and on weekends watch some ruggas and have a braai.

 

[Howzy]

I think this thread is wrongly named as yes he is ill but there is no confirmation yet of whether he is dieing etc last time I checked he was in a stable condition but like someone said further up the page he is wavering in and out of stable and critical

 

[yarmolinsky]

oh God nooooooooooooooo....I come on this forum for relief from the falseness of this world (well not really...) and BAM, Mandela story runs wild here too...it's...AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAALL over the news...it's been all over the news for so long now...won't he just DIE so we can resume regular news broadcasting please ? I understand the African natives suffered for a long time, and I wish that didn't happen, obviously. But for God's sake, on the news every day, it's "Nelson farted ! Nelson smiled earlier today !!.....Mandela is showing signs of stability in his disease.....Mandela shat 3 kilos today !"...
The hypocrisy in this world is tragic.

100% truth Thanks for saving me from typing the same.

p.s. It's so interesting to see how different the attitude to apartheid and the way it was banned is in different countries)) But whatever the attitude is, for God's sake, that's quite enough of Mandella, honestly...)) I'm deeply in love with SA because of many things, but Mandella is definitely not one of the reasons.

 

[TRF_heineken]

100% truth Thanks for saving me from typing the same.

p.s. It's so interesting to see how different the attitude to apartheid and the way it was banned is in different countries)) But whatever the attitude is, for God's sake, that's quite enough of Mandella, honestly...)) I'm deeply in love with SA because of many things, but Mandella is definitely not one of the reasons.

How old are you?

Has it ever occured to you that because of him you are able to enjoy SA? If it wasn't for him, then you wouldn't have seen the Springboks play rugby!!!!

 

[yarmolinsky]

If it wasn't for him, then you wouldn't have seen the Springboks play rugby!!!!

Do you realize, that this statement makes your age question quite applicable to yourself? =))
What reply do you expect? That only because of Stalin you can enjoy watching russian hockey team? And only because of Castro you can enjoy watching magnificent cuban boxers?

I don't have any right and desire of teaching you your own county's history. It's obvious that you know things way better than I do in this sphere. I just said that I neither like Mandella nor enjoy coming across his name in every effing piece of news =))

 

[TRF_heineken]

Do you realize, that this statement makes your age question quite applicable to yourself? =))
What reply do you expect? That only because of Stalin you can enjoy watching russian hockey team? And only because of Castro you can enjoy watching magnificent cuban boxers?

I don't have any right and desire of teaching you your own county's history. It's obvious that you know things way better than I do in this sphere. I just said that I neither like Mandella nor enjoy coming across his name in every effing piece of news =))

Well, I expected an educated reply.

One who says he's so much in love with my country, wouldn't have loved my country if Mandela didn't develop our Democracy. During Apartheid many countries like the US and England and Australia, boikotted SA. Had trade embargo's against SA, and even disallowed their own people from visiting SA.

With the Dawn of Democracy which Mandela and De Klerk implemented into our country, they got rid of all these problems with foreign countries, allowing people like yourself to enjoy our country...

But hey, I guess I'm just an ignorant little **** that needs to be educated about my own country because I don't read...

 

[Big Ewis]

ohhhhhh stop......my, my....

 

[yarmolinsky]

But hey, I guess I'm just an ignorant little **** that needs to be educated about my own country because I don't read...

If you had read my message before replying, you would notice this :

I don't have any right and desire of teaching you your own county's history. It's obvious that you know things way better than I do in this sphere

wouldn't have loved my country if Mandela didn't develop our Democracy.

As a matter of fact, I used to love you country much more before the 'dawn of democracy'. And (let it be our secret) I don't give a crap for 'democracy'. At least - in the form I can observe it in many countries nowadays


As a conclusion - the least thing I wanted was to offend you or irritate you. Sorry for any possible inconvenience. I just expressed my opinon about Mandella, apartheid and stuff.

p.s. It's funny though... Our office deals with SA for many years, and the developers coming from there to Kiev express thoughts about SA before and after apartheid which are very similar to mine. Strange

 

[Saintjay]

Where I live TV's have remotes. If I dislike what is on it I change the channel. To complain some thing is on the news to much is ridiculas. You are talking about a man many see as one of the greatest in history. It is covered so much because many people care and worry about him passing away. If you do not feel the same use the remote.

 

[TRF_heineken]

If you had read my message before replying, you would notice this :

As a matter of fact, I used to love you country much more before the 'dawn of democracy'. And (let it be our secret) I don't give a crap for 'democracy'. At least - in the form I can observe it in many countries nowadays

As a conclusion - the least thing I wanted was to offend you or irritate you. Sorry for any possible inconvenience. I just expressed my opinon about Mandella, apartheid and stuff.

p.s. It's funny though... Our office deals with SA for many years, and the developers coming from there to Kiev express thoughts about SA before and after apartheid which are very similar to mine. Strange

Spoken like a true Communist.

 

[yarmolinsky]

Spoken like a true Communist.

As you wish, good sir

Where I live TV's have remotes. If I dislike what is on it I change the channel. To complain some thing is on the news to much is ridiculas. You are talking about a man many see as one of the greatest in history. It is covered so much because many people care and worry about him passing away. If you do not feel the same use the remote.

Well, I am positively sure my message also could be easily waved away by remote. But somehow you've stopped and made a comment. Even though you did not like my opinion. And so did I - stopped and made a comment. You see - it's our inalienable right provided by the "dawn of democracy" (tm)
Let us not deprive each other of this right

 

[TRF_heineken]

As you wish, good sir

Well, I am positively sure my message also could be easily waved away by remote. But somehow you've stopped and made a comment. Even though you did not like my opinion. And so did I - stopped and made a comment. You see - it's our inalienable right provided by the "dawn of democracy" (tm)
Let us not deprive each other of this right

Yes, Democracy gives you the choice to vote, have the right to be heard and everything else humane. And you invoked that right, good for you. But when you contradict yourself you just make yourself look like an idiot. You say you love SA but not Mandela. The modern SA and Mandela must be spoken in unison.

Then you say you loved SA before he was involved and before it was a democracy, which leaves me to believe that you are a racist communist. And in that case I have no time for you.

 

[yarmolinsky]

Yyou are a racist communist. And in that case I have no time for you.

Good)) Because the way you maintain discussion becomes slightly boring. Agressive stupidity is always boring, you know.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Good)) Because the way you maintain discussion becomes slightly boring. Agressive stupidity is always boring, you know.

Maintain discussion?? Isn't that the point of a DISCUSSION FORUM??

 

[yarmolinsky]

Maintain discussion?? Isn't that the point of a DISCUSSION FORUM??

What keeps amazing me is how 'racist communists' are trying to extinguish the conflict while the ones enlightened by the 'dawn of democracy' keep throwing the woods on the fire)) One could expect better skills of respecting the opponent's point of view from a democrate, I should say...

Ok, mate. You are funny and all, but I really want a nap, so take care and thanks for the chat))

 

[William18]

I too have been getting a bit sick of constantly hearing about Mandela. Yes, I can and do change the channel. I just think that everyone has the right to die in peace. Having the whole world's news media monitor everything I do in my last days would not be how I would want to die. I think it would be better for everyone (the man himself) if Mandela did die soon. It seems to me like South Africa needs to move on. They need a new hero for a new day to deal with the widespread civil strife within their country.