Nation Eligibilty Catch-All Thread

[Which Tyler]

For Tier1, the fact they generally only recruit foreign developed players with a view to capturing them on residency (excluding perhaps Glasgow and Edinburgh) may save their bacon from something similar.

Errr... What now?

IIRC Similar has happened with England, except that the player, club, and union all knew what the rules were. Way back, when Shontayne Hape transferred from league to Union, he'd already spent long enough in the UK to qualify on residency, but he had picked up an injury, and returned to NZ for a couple of months to see family whilst he was doing his rehab.
It was well known that that reset his qualification period.

In England at least, no-one signs foreign developed players with a view to capturing them on residency. Nor do France, and obviously not Arg, SA, NZ or Aus, whilst Italian club rugby doesn't have the pull, and look to ancestry. Pretty sure Wales haven't for over a decade, whilst Ireland and Scotland do (or did, I think Ireland ditched it when the qualification period was extended. Scotland probably did too) have that specific policy.

Your "generally only" seems to only apply to 1/5 of tier 1 - and you then exempt both clubs from one of the only 2 nations to ever have that policy.

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

Errr... What now?

IIRC Similar has happened with England, except that the player, club, and union all knew what the rules were. Way back, when Shontayne Hape transferred from league to Union, he'd already spent long enough in the UK to qualify on residency, but he had picked up an injury, and returned to NZ for a couple of months to see family whilst he was doing his rehab.
It was well known that that reset his qualification period.

In England at least, no-one signs foreign developed players with a view to capturing them on residency. Nor do France, and obviously not Arg, SA, NZ or Aus, whilst Italian club rugby doesn't have the pull, and look to ancestry. Pretty sure Wales haven't for over a decade, whilst Ireland and Scotland do (or did, I think Ireland ditched it when the qualification period was extended. Scotland probably did too) have that specific policy.

Your "generally only" seems to only apply to 1/5 of tier 1 - and you then exempt both clubs from one of the only 2 nations to ever have that policy.

Apologies. I meant Tier 1 unions considering residency as an option for a player will generally explore that on day 1 of the player arriving in their country (i.e. forward planning to ensure compliance with regulation 8). So any player who wasn't originally going to be captured in 2021 or 2022 for a Tier 1 union (under the original implementation date of the new 5 year rules) stands a good chance of having been following regulation 8 since 2018 anyway (to be captured in 2023 for the RWC).

I was very much wearing a URC cap though given that it is the URC nations (excluding SA and to some extent Ireland) that boot the arse out of capturing players from other unions. So yes, France and England may have exceptions, but they are far less likely to be selecting any new players based on residency in 2021 or 2022 (did either have any new residency captures last year for example?). For SANZAAR capturing players on residency is even less of an issue.

 

[pagliaccio_euforico]

Bundee Aki and James Lowe's Irish status cited in Spanish appeal against World Cup exclusion

The Spanish Federation is challenging the decision of a judicial committee to disqualify it from the 2023 World Cup for fielding an ineligible player who was deemed to have represented Spain without fulfilling the requisite residency criteria

www.irishexaminer.com

I think Lowe's quote kind of speaks for itself. If we're gonna go delving into whether a player feels like a new country is home I don't see how Lowe passes the test.

Edit: I should add to say it won't make a difference anyway. World Rugby is the one that writes the decisions so they will just explain away why Lowe's comments are okay but referring to yourself as a Saffa on instagram means you are ineligible for a new country.

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

Bundee Aki and James Lowe's Irish status cited in Spanish appeal against World Cup exclusion

The Spanish Federation is challenging the decision of a judicial committee to disqualify it from the 2023 World Cup for fielding an ineligible player who was deemed to have represented Spain without fulfilling the requisite residency criteria

www.irishexaminer.com

I think Lowe's quote kind of speaks for itself. If we're gonna go delving into whether a player feels like a new country is home I don't see how Lowe passes the test.

Edit: I should add to say it won't make a difference anyway. World Rugby is the one that writes the decisions so they will just explain away why Lowe's comments are okay but referring to yourself as a Saffa on instagram means you are ineligible for a new country.

Absolutely. But those guys won't have left their new 'home' for more than 60 days in a qualifying year. Whereas the Spanish Saffa did.

I want to see the lawyers out singing the anthems at the RWC. Rugby values!

 

[pagliaccio_euforico]

from what I can tell Spain just wants that part of the decision overturned. They are fighting the entire thing but from that article World Rugby's language about subjectiveness really bothered them.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Feeling at home =/= feeling X nationality

Pretty easy defence.

 

[pagliaccio_euforico]

Feeling at home =/= feeling X nationality

Pretty easy defence.

did you read World Rugby's decision on the Spanish player? cause that's literally the language they used

edit: and I think it's dumb as well but those are the words World Rugby used

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

did you read World Rugby's decision on the Spanish player? cause that's literally the language they used

edit: and I think it's dumb as well but those are the words World Rugby used

Just took a skim at the relevant sections there. It uses "treated as home / permanent home". Slightly more carefully used words but really should be a line of wording that they avoid considering the scrutiny the whole eligibility process comes under for sure.

 

[pagliaccio_euforico]

Just took a skim at the relevant sections there. It uses "treated as home / permanent home". Slightly more carefully used words but really should be a line of wording that they avoid considering the scrutiny the whole eligibility process comes under for sure.

x1000

they also didn't need to touch it. the player violated a bright line rule that would have made him ineligible no matter what. they decided to muddy the water for fun.

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

Drama over.

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

Just when you thought rugby was the only sport with eligibility criteria along comes the Ecuador football union.

Ecuador to be excluded from 2022 World Cup, Chile or Italy promoted - Football Italia

Ecuador will almost certainly be thrown out of the 2022 World Cup tomorrow for falsifying a player’s passport, but Chile are more likely than Italy to take

football-italia.net

Forza Italia! I might have reason to tune into the world cup after all (I know it'll go to Chile).

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

So World Rugby saying only 4 PI players announced in squads for next months tests used the new 'switch allegiance' rule. I'm pleasantly surprised.

Fijian Drua and Moana Pasifika's success benefits national teams | World Rugby

World Rugby investment in the establishment of the Moana Pasifika and Fijian Drua Super Rugby franchises has been rewarded with 43 players being selected for their respective nations for the upcoming World Rugby Pacific Nations Cup 2022.

www.world.rugby

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

If this report is accurate then Italy should receive a significant fine. Unfortunate that he never played at RWC2019 or Italy would have to be excluded for the RWC2023. They can't exclude Italy from 2023 due to an infraction in 2015 if there is no evidence that thet ballsed it up in 2019.

If I was World Rugby I'd be insisting on an independent review of all players selected by Italy in RWC2019 as they are a repeat offender for fielding ineligible players (including last year or 2020).

Urgent Questions asked of Italy Player Eligibility at Rugby World Cups - Americas Rugby News

In a significant reveal for rugby, a top player took to the field for an elite country in four World

www.americasrugbynews.com

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Mad that they just....never checked
It's like the Colin Charvis situation where they just took his word for it

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

errrrr Castrogiovanni is an Italian sort of name and looks italian so there for should get a pass IMO

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Owns an Italian restaurant as well,

Open and shut case

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

Would he not be qualified on residency earlyish on in his Italy career (too late ik), but he was living in Italy from the back end of '99/early '00 as far as I can work out, so would have qualified just before he moved to Tigers (coincidence?)

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Think it's a Colin Charvis situation where he wasn't eligible initially but became eligible later on

 

[Reiser99]

Article also highlights how Wales and Scotland back then weren't punished consistently for the same offence. Makes you wonder how rigorously they check these heritage players.

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

If this report is accurate then Italy should receive a significant fine. Unfortunate that he never played at RWC2019 or Italy would have to be excluded for the RWC2023. They can't exclude Italy from 2023 due to an infraction in 2015 if there is no evidence that thet ballsed it up in 2019.

See, that's part of the problem. I'd like to see them banned from the next 2 WC's, at least. They knew.

I would like a journo to get an interview with any top 3 WR ex and ask, point blank, in what parallel universe is it ok for no one in WR, NO ONE to check this. Lock the room and dont let him till you get an answer and make it live on yt, tt, fb and every platform available to mankind.
This is just not acceptable.

All of this, EVERY SINGLE BIT could be avoided so ******* easily. How hard, how ******* hard could it be for an independent entity to check someone's eligibility? It is literally ticking a few boxes based on documents that anyone at that level should have readily available. Again, a competent 15-year-old with internet access and the adequate software could check a team in a day. It is not rocket science.
- Clear rules for eligibility
- presented docs by RAs
- crossref both
- if in doubt, he cannot play, period.

THAT IS IT. I'm fuming. it is mind-boggling.

Spain fields a questionable player in a non-event of a game and they lay the smack on them, rightly so. And Italy fields an ineligible player in consecutive world cups and they get nothing but a slap on the wrist? **** you. **** you.

When tier 2/3 complain they are right 99% of the times. We're a bunch of hypocrites who claim to follow a global sport when it's nothing more than a big old boys club.
Then they show us a live feed of Bill Beaumont attending Bahamas vs Nicaragua while having Owens officiate it and we all clap in unison as if it meant something.
**** them, **** us.

This is bloody serious and it won't change until we address it accordingly.

/rant