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O'Rothlain
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Olyy @ Dec 17 2009, 05:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
I personally find the ***le of this thread a bit offensive, but fair enough we're all entitled to our opnions. We've already beat to death the religion debate here, so let's not get back into that, but people should be free to practice their religion and if it's a pre-arranged agreement with his employer there shouldn't be fuss about it. Obviously he's still good enough to be desired at that level, since they are being patient with his personal policy. Maybe for him it's his position as a pro-athelete that he knows would attract the media and he's purposefully using it as a means of evangelization. Whatever the reasoning I'm glad to see him putting out the good word.
Well, that's something I address in my above blog posting. Traditionally no Christian would've played on a Sunday. It's only in more recent times that people seem to excuse themselves.
I personally find the ***le of this thread a bit offensive, but fair enough we're all entitled to our opnions. We've already beat to death the religion debate here, so let's not get back into that, but people should be free to practice their religion and if it's a pre-arranged agreement with his employer there shouldn't be fuss about it. Obviously he's still good enough to be desired at that level, since they are being patient with his personal policy. Maybe for him it's his position as a pro-athelete that he knows would attract the media and he's purposefully using it as a means of evangelization. Whatever the reasoning I'm glad to see him putting out the good word.
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gingergenius
Guest
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (O'Rothlain @ Feb 11 2010, 07:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
I personally find the ***le of this thread a bit offensive, but fair enough we're all entitled to our opnions. We've already beat to death the religion debate here, so let's not get back into that, but people should be free to practice their religion and if it's a pre-arranged agreement with his employer there shouldn't be fuss about it. Obviously he's still good enough to be desired at that level, since they are being patient with his personal policy. Maybe for him it's his position as a pro-athelete that he knows would attract the media and he's purposefully using it as a means of evangelization. Whatever the reasoning I'm glad to see him putting out the good word.
[/b][/quote]
The only issue I have with this is how it may affect others. Clearly, it's Murray's personal choice what to do. But employers have their own agendas. Northampton should be perfectly within their rights to adjust his wages accordingly.
If you employ someone on a long-term basis, you employ them to perform tasks for you, when you want them done and how you want them done. If you employ someone knowing fully that they won't be able to do this, then you have to accept your own mistake. For example, if you interview a woman in a veil and give her the job, you have no right to complain about her wearing a veil to work.
But if the employee later changes the conditions, then their ability to do the job is compromised. This is not the responsibility of the employer.
The issue here depends on what Murray's current contract states. If he's being paid an annual sum wage to be a Northampton player, I'd hope that Northampton could come to an agreement with him to lower that. If I were a club signing a contract with Murray now, for example, I would offer a low basic wage plus a substantial appearance bonus. Maybe that's how his contract works already. Hopefully Northampton won't lose anything from his decision.
Well, that's something I address in my above blog posting. Traditionally no Christian would've played on a Sunday. It's only in more recent times that people seem to excuse themselves.
I personally find the ***le of this thread a bit offensive, but fair enough we're all entitled to our opnions. We've already beat to death the religion debate here, so let's not get back into that, but people should be free to practice their religion and if it's a pre-arranged agreement with his employer there shouldn't be fuss about it. Obviously he's still good enough to be desired at that level, since they are being patient with his personal policy. Maybe for him it's his position as a pro-athelete that he knows would attract the media and he's purposefully using it as a means of evangelization. Whatever the reasoning I'm glad to see him putting out the good word.
[/b][/quote]
The only issue I have with this is how it may affect others. Clearly, it's Murray's personal choice what to do. But employers have their own agendas. Northampton should be perfectly within their rights to adjust his wages accordingly.
If you employ someone on a long-term basis, you employ them to perform tasks for you, when you want them done and how you want them done. If you employ someone knowing fully that they won't be able to do this, then you have to accept your own mistake. For example, if you interview a woman in a veil and give her the job, you have no right to complain about her wearing a veil to work.
But if the employee later changes the conditions, then their ability to do the job is compromised. This is not the responsibility of the employer.
The issue here depends on what Murray's current contract states. If he's being paid an annual sum wage to be a Northampton player, I'd hope that Northampton could come to an agreement with him to lower that. If I were a club signing a contract with Murray now, for example, I would offer a low basic wage plus a substantial appearance bonus. Maybe that's how his contract works already. Hopefully Northampton won't lose anything from his decision.
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Prestwick
Guest
My opinion? Well...
"That would be an ecumenical matter..."
"That would be an ecumenical matter..."
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Bullitt
Guest
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gingergenius @ Feb 11 2010, 08:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
He penned a new contract around the same time this came to light, so I wouldn't be surprised if that's exactly what 's going on.
He penned a new contract around the same time this came to light, so I wouldn't be surprised if that's exactly what 's going on.
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gethefunk
Guest
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gingergenius @ Feb 11 2010, 08:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
I personally find the ***le of this thread a bit offensive, but fair enough we're all entitled to our opnions. We've already beat to death the religion debate here, so let's not get back into that, but people should be free to practice their religion and if it's a pre-arranged agreement with his employer there shouldn't be fuss about it. Obviously he's still good enough to be desired at that level, since they are being patient with his personal policy. Maybe for him it's his position as a pro-athelete that he knows would attract the media and he's purposefully using it as a means of evangelization. Whatever the reasoning I'm glad to see him putting out the good word.
[/b][/quote]
The only issue I have with this is how it may affect others. Clearly, it's Murray's personal choice what to do. But employers have their own agendas. Northampton should be perfectly within their rights to adjust his wages accordingly.
If you employ someone on a long-term basis, you employ them to perform tasks for you, when you want them done and how you want them done. If you employ someone knowing fully that they won't be able to do this, then you have to accept your own mistake. For example, if you interview a woman in a veil and give her the job, you have no right to complain about her wearing a veil to work.
But if the employee later changes the conditions, then their ability to do the job is compromised. This is not the responsibility of the employer.
The issue here depends on what Murray's current contract states. If he's being paid an annual sum wage to be a Northampton player, I'd hope that Northampton could come to an agreement with him to lower that. If I were a club signing a contract with Murray now, for example, I would offer a low basic wage plus a substantial appearance bonus. Maybe that's how his contract works already. Hopefully Northampton won't lose anything from his decision.
[/b][/quote]
I agree totally, but he will have them by the nackers on this one even if he did not tell them before he signed the contract...
still I think he is worth it, but does rule him out for at least 20 - 25 % of games !!
Well, that's something I address in my above blog posting. Traditionally no Christian would've played on a Sunday. It's only in more recent times that people seem to excuse themselves.
I personally find the ***le of this thread a bit offensive, but fair enough we're all entitled to our opnions. We've already beat to death the religion debate here, so let's not get back into that, but people should be free to practice their religion and if it's a pre-arranged agreement with his employer there shouldn't be fuss about it. Obviously he's still good enough to be desired at that level, since they are being patient with his personal policy. Maybe for him it's his position as a pro-athelete that he knows would attract the media and he's purposefully using it as a means of evangelization. Whatever the reasoning I'm glad to see him putting out the good word.
[/b][/quote]
The only issue I have with this is how it may affect others. Clearly, it's Murray's personal choice what to do. But employers have their own agendas. Northampton should be perfectly within their rights to adjust his wages accordingly.
If you employ someone on a long-term basis, you employ them to perform tasks for you, when you want them done and how you want them done. If you employ someone knowing fully that they won't be able to do this, then you have to accept your own mistake. For example, if you interview a woman in a veil and give her the job, you have no right to complain about her wearing a veil to work.
But if the employee later changes the conditions, then their ability to do the job is compromised. This is not the responsibility of the employer.
The issue here depends on what Murray's current contract states. If he's being paid an annual sum wage to be a Northampton player, I'd hope that Northampton could come to an agreement with him to lower that. If I were a club signing a contract with Murray now, for example, I would offer a low basic wage plus a substantial appearance bonus. Maybe that's how his contract works already. Hopefully Northampton won't lose anything from his decision.
[/b][/quote]
I agree totally, but he will have them by the nackers on this one even if he did not tell them before he signed the contract...
still I think he is worth it, but does rule him out for at least 20 - 25 % of games !!
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Will
Guest
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Olyy @ Dec 17 2009, 11:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
That's right, though he's recently come out and said that he regrets taking such a religious stance on things as, looking at the bigger picture, as if his God was going to really be upset at thought thought of him running around and jumping a lot on a Sunday with so many other things going on.
Easy to say for a strict athiest such as myself I admit.
That's right, though he's recently come out and said that he regrets taking such a religious stance on things as, looking at the bigger picture, as if his God was going to really be upset at thought thought of him running around and jumping a lot on a Sunday with so many other things going on.
Easy to say for a strict athiest such as myself I admit.
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SSE
Guest
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (O'Rothlain @ Feb 11 2010, 07:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
[/b][/quote]
It's not just Christians that face choices like this. There are quite a few Muslim football players (Sulley Muntari at Internazionale and Alassane N'Diaye at Crystal Palace for example) who struggle with Ramadan, as obviously not being able to eat and drink during the day can have a pretty disastrous effect on an athlete. I believe some Muslim sportsmen have been able to get special permission from an Imam to break fasting on match days, in return for adding on extra days at the end of Ramadan. For people of any religion, it must be a pretty horrible decision to choose between the sport you love and your religion.
Well, that's something I address in my above blog posting. Traditionally no Christian would've played on a Sunday. It's only in more recent times that people seem to excuse themselves.
[/b][/quote]
It's not just Christians that face choices like this. There are quite a few Muslim football players (Sulley Muntari at Internazionale and Alassane N'Diaye at Crystal Palace for example) who struggle with Ramadan, as obviously not being able to eat and drink during the day can have a pretty disastrous effect on an athlete. I believe some Muslim sportsmen have been able to get special permission from an Imam to break fasting on match days, in return for adding on extra days at the end of Ramadan. For people of any religion, it must be a pretty horrible decision to choose between the sport you love and your religion.
