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Munster v Leinster, Good Friday, Thomond Park

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Leinster squad to face Munster...

FORWARDS: Leo Cullen, John Fogarty, Cian Healy, Jamie Heaslip, Nathan Hines, Bernard Jackman, Shane Jennings, Stephen Keogh, Malcolm O'Kelly, Mike Ross, Rhys Ruddock, Paul Ryan, Devin Toner, CJ van der Linde, Stan Wright

BACKS: Shaun Berne, Andrew Conway, Gordon D'Arcy, Girvan Dempsey, Rob Kearney, Simon Keogh, Fergus McFadden, Isa Nacewa, Paul O'Donohoe, Eoin O'Malley, Eoin Reddan, Jonathan Sexton


Munster Squad: Marcus Horan; Dave Ryan; John Hayes; Tony Buckley; Denis Fogarty; Jerry Flannery; Damien Varley; Donncha O'Callaghan; Mick O'Driscoll; Paul O'Connell; Alan Quinlan; David Wallace; Niall Ronan; Nick Williams; James Coughlan; Billy Holland; Tomás O'Leary; Peter Stringer; Ronan O'Gara; Paul Warwick; Lifeimi Mafi; Jean de Villiers; Tom Gleeson; Keith Earls; Ian Dowling; Doug Howlett; Scott Deasy.
 
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Gerry Thornley sets the ball rolling:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2010/0330/1224267343277.html

ON RUGBY: The popularity of the Leinster v Munster fixture has led to excessive antipathy between the two sets of supporters

IT WAS in December 2001, in the inaugural Celtic League final, that the Leinster-Munster rivalry reached a new level. Unexpectedly, more than 30,000 turned up at Lansdowne Road on the second last Saturday before Christmas and saw an epic contest in which a 14-man Leinster achieved an unlikely 24-20 comeback win to claim the trophy. In the context of the professional era, perhaps that was the day the fixture came of age.

However, for much of the ensuing years, it was as if Eddie O'Sullivan and the IRFU were doing their damndest to play down the fixture's intensity. Leinster-Munster games were invariably pencilled in for weekends when many of the Irish front-liners would be unavailable. All the while, though, the rivalry bubbled away under the surface, and exploded into life again in the 2005-06 campaign with a couple of compelling league meetings and the first of those Heineken Cup semi-finals.

There's hardly been a dull encounter since and last season the pair of them laid on another European semi-final for the benefit of a world-record attendance for a non-Test match. It is the fixture which showcases Irish rugby talent more than any other and has perhaps defined a golden era more than any other.

They have been good for each other as well as Irish rugby, each demanding more of the other. Leinster saw things in Munster they aspired to emulate and vice versa. Between them, they have won three of the last four Heineken Cups and backboned last season's first Grand Slam in 61 years.

An inevitable by-product of their success and rivalry has been to broaden each province's fan base, which has to be welcomed. It would be nice if more of them were involved with their local clubs, but they pay their ticket prices and are as entitled to support their provinces as much as anyone else.

Partly as a result, each province has moved into bigger, swankier new stadia and it would be no surprise if next season's Magners League meetings fill both the 27,000-capacity Thomond Park and the new 50,000 all-seater Aviva Stadium.

Such is the fixture's popularity, they've even helped to ensure the pubs will be open on this coming Good Friday; a sacrilegious occurrence which wouldn't even have been countenanced 10 years ago.

Alas, with this popularity has come excessive antipathy between the two sets of supporters or, it would seem, between some of the newer supporters to each province.

When Leinster thrashed Munster 30-0 at the RDS in early October, the atmosphere was electric and befitted such a superb home performance. It didn't need the sound of Ronan O'Gara's name being booed when it was read out before the kick-off, the same Irish player who had landed the Slam-winning drop-goal six months beforehand.

Nor did it need the bile directed at John Hayes when he was red carded for an utterly out-of-character stamping, nor those chants borrowed from Old Trafford, Anfield and elsewhere of "Same Old Munster, Always Cheating", or "Boring, Boring Munster".

Conceivably, these chants and the baiting of Munster players should be taken in the context of a one-off night, when the recently-crowned European champions were in rampant form. But several readers have written to this column telling of their eye-wateringly unpleasant nights at this fixture in the past few years. One Munster supporter at the RDS that night recalled a constant flow of foul-mouthed and often racist invective at both Munster players and his small group of red-scarved friends.

After Shane Horgan's intercept try, to complete the rout, they were patted on the heads and shoulders while being taunted Munster would win "F*** all" this year. "They also sang to the air of the Pompey chimes 'No score Munster, Munster no score'." "When I took issue with them for the gross intrusion off my personal space I was abused by at least six people, who shouted that I was 'just a sore effing loser'. One of my friends intervened only to be invited outside for a fight by one of the aggressive yobs," he recalled.

In the absence of any stewards or police, they felt compelled to remain and put up with abuse until the bitter end, when they were again taunted. There are many, like them, who will simply not attend another Munster-Leinster fixture again.

The danger is that with each passing instalment of Leinster versus Munster, the rivalry will become more poisonous. A degree of banter/rivalry between supporters is healthy, and amongst the majority of supporters, it remains a healthy rivalry, with each rooting for the other in Europe.

Nor is this a desire to apportion blame or to take the high moral ground. Indeed, we in the media happily helped to stoke up the rivalry, and sometimes excessively so. Maybe all this is a by-product of professional sport and increased commercialism. Old traditional fans and values versus new ones. Obeying the customary silence for kickers (a pity, albeit understandable, that it was forgotten for Dan Parks' winning kick at Croke Park, all the more so as silence might have utterly flummoxed him) gives one hope. But if we ever get to the stage of those freeze frames, a la football, of an away player walking off to the backdrop of a baying mob mouthing obscenities, then the horse has surely bolted.

All in all, Irish rugby has embraced the professional age impressively. With all change come challenges, as one emailer wrote in, and with those can come potentially good and bad developments. Rival fans mixing freely, before during and after games, without hostility is surely worth keeping, no? As Declan Kidney is wont to say, our unity is our strength, and Ireland is such a small country, with such a small playing base, that the worst excesses of this rivalry cannot do any good.

Whatever its causes (and one ventures it may in part be a Dublin v country thing that has been partly transferred from other sports) taunting individual players from either side is totally out of character with what Irish rugby is about. And, along with the respective branches, the true fans must help to stamp this out. Otherwise it's going to get more and more out of hand, and ultimately lead to segregation, and if segregation is to happen, then this fixture is now the odds-on favourite to provoke it.

Now that is definitely not what Irish rugby is about.
 
I would be complaining about how this isn't on in the rest of the UK, but it's on the same time as Scarlets-Ospreys, and so I probally wouldn't watch it anyway.
 
Careless article by GT. I actually expected more from him. At least a bit of balance.
 
Munster certainly have more to play for, what with being man shamed in the two most recent meetings of the provinces. Add that motivation to the fact that it's in Thomond, Leinster's injury woes and the fact that while Munster are playing a decent English outfit next week, Leinster are playing one of the best teams in Europe and you can really only see one winner. Hopefully I'm wrong but I reckon it'll be a red win come friday.


Not like it really matters though, we pretty much have our top four place sewn up. Also, Rog will probably **** it up.


EDIT: How can Thornley have a go at the Leinster fans for giving Hayes stick after that outragous stamp? Stupid comment. The man should have been banned for the rest of the season!
 
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Would like to see Buckley start this one. Lets give him yet another chance to remove Hayes.

Not sure about the midfield, Earls and JdV would be the ideal but Mafi and the latter have been doing ok together and i'd like to see all our best players on the field at once.

Hroan needs a big one, he's benn awful since he's come back imo.
 
Careless article by GT. I actually expected more from him. At least a bit of balance.

no balance at all, of course O'Gara was going to get booed after what he did in the second test, if anything it was more tongue in cheek and as for Hayes getting abuse, thought the reaction was more of a stunned silence myself.

He also failed to mention the classless Munster fans whio were chanting during the minutes silence for Karl Mullen at Croker.

I'm not for a second claiming that Leinster fans are saints but it swings both ways.
 
I don't understand some of Gerry Thornley's article. Why shouldn't fans boo a player who's been sent off for a disgusting stamp on somebody's head? I was in Croke Park 10 months ago when that same player, John Hayes, got a standing ovation from virtually the entire crowd as he left the field. Booing him isn't an aspect of a "poisonous" rivalry, rather it was a by product of the offence he committed.

I was also in the RDS for the fixture 6 months ago and can't say I heard O'Gara being booed when I heard his name called. If it was though, what's the big deal once the abuse isn't personnal?

The actions of a few idiots abusing a Munster fan shouldn't lead to Leinster fans being tarred with the same brush, as is the case in this article.

I agree that nobody wants to see fans being segregated and thankfully there's no sign of it happening. Thornley's article this week is sensationalist in the extreme and doesn't help in any way.
 
The Munster squad has now been added to the first post in the thread.

From Leinster's perspective, it's great to see Gordon D'arcy back in the squad. Hopefully he and Nathan Hines will be fit to play. On the negative side, Kevin McLaughlin and Shane Horgan aren't named in the enlarged panel. Could they be doubts for next week?
 
Its down to characterising the fanbases i.e.

all the Munster fans fresh from spreading slurry horse on the dirty 1998 jersey, hop into a beat VW Jetta and arrive at Thomond, stand where their fathers stood 30 years ago watching them beat the All Blacks. Hardcore.

Not ******* lately. Gangs of yummy mummies and groups of retard tweens running around the place, mixed in with the odd bandwagonjuming GAA head who doesn't even know the ******* rules. There are still some proper fans, but the way some Munster fan'll tell it, there's 40000 hardcore die for the jersey, i was there from day one supporters.

Can't really comment on Leinster fans really. D4 people do irritate me, but obviously not all the fans are that way.

Hate Shane Byrne though.
 
Its down to characterising the fanbases i.e.

all the Munster fans fresh from spreading slurry horse on the dirty 1998 jersey, hop into a beat VW Jetta and arrive at Thomond, stand where their fathers stood 30 years ago watching them beat the All Blacks. Hardcore.

Not ******* lately. Gangs of yummy mummies and groups of retard tweens running around the place, mixed in with the odd bandwagonjuming GAA head who doesn't even know the ******* rules. There are still some proper fans, but the way some Munster fan'll tell it, there's 40000 hardcore die for the jersey, i was there from day one supporters.

Can't really comment on Leinster fans really. D4 people do irritate me, but obviously not all the fans are that way.

Hate Shane Byrne though.

sure he's from Wicklow!!
 
Paul O'Connell is unlikely to be risked tomorrow, he has a groin problem according to the Irish Times so is unlike to be risked ahead of the Northampton match.
 
There's 5 changes to the Leinster side which beat Connacht.

Gordon D'Arcy replaced Berne at inside centre in what is the only change to the backline.

CJ van der Linde lines up in the front row alongside Fogarty and Wright, Devon Toner partners Leo Cullen instead of Malcolm O'Kelly while Jamie Heaslip and Nathan Hines return to the back row with Ruddock and Keogh the ones to miss out.

Leinster team to face Munster in Magners League at Thomond Park on Friday, 2 April at 8.05pm.

15 Rob Kearney, 14 Girvan Dempsey, 13 Fergus McFadden, 12 Gordon D'Arcy, 11 Isa Nacewa, 10 Jonathan Sexton, 9 Eoin Reddan, 1 Stan Wright, 2 John Fogarty, 3 CJ van der Linde, 4 Leo Cullen (capt), 5 Devin Toner, 6 Nathan Hines, 7 Shane Jennings, 8 Jamie Heaslip

Replacements:
16 Bernard Jackman, 17 Cian Healy, 18 Malcolm O'Kelly, 19 Stephen Keogh, 20 Paul O'Donohoe, 21 Shaun Berne, 22 Eoin O'Malley
 
Keith Earls has also been ruled out with a groin injury, so Mafi starts in the centre with Dowling on the wing. O'Driscoll starts alongside O'Callaghan. O'Gara will captain the side in O'Connell's absence.

MUNSTER (v Leinster): Paul Warwick; Doug Howlett, Lifeimi Mafi, Jean de Villiers, Ian Dowling; Ronan O'Gara (capt), Tomas O'Leary; Marcus Horan, Jerry Flannery, John Hayes, Donncha O'Callaghan, Mick O'Driscoll, Alan Quinlan, Niall Ronan, David Wallace.

Replacements: Denis Fogarty, Tony Buckley, Nick Williams, James Coughlan, Peter Stringer, Tom Gleeson, Scott Deasy.
 
Dempsey at 14? Weird.

I guess Cheika is deploying his 2 fullbacks idea again, also adds a bit of experiance to the back three.

Tis a big day for Toner and McFadden, probably the biggest of their careers. Hope they get on alright.


Munster by 12.
 
That's got to smart a bit for all of the Munster fans ;)

Also, after the 6N and everyone saying Kearney had lost it/Sexton couldn't kick, what an ending :p
 
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