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Muliaina Arrested

Sorry but this is total nonsense. False sexual assault allegations same % as false burglary allegations, yet if he'd have been accused of that doubt you'd have left that post.
Among professional athletes the margin for false accusations increases.
Also the term sexual assault these days is incredibly ambiguous , by the definitions given by contemporary feminist movements on sexual assault , I've been a victim and likely you too on countless occasions and until the details (or if ever) come out I'll assume he's not done wrong. So please excuse me if I take allegations made against someone who is completely innocent until proven guilty with a pinch of salt. Indeed someone who hasn't even been charged with any offence or wrongdoing.
 
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Among professional athletes the margin for false accusations increases.
Citation needed

A person (A) commits an offence ifâ€"
(a)he intentionally touches another person ( B ),
(b)the touching is sexual,
(c)B does not consent to the touching, and
(d)A does not reasonably believe that B consents.
What is ambiguous about that?

Can have your opinion but you don't get to make up your own facts.
 
This is what people mean by sexual assault not being taken seriously.

Innocent until proven guilty is one thing. But don't conflate it with "the law is ambiguous." It really isn't. Don't touch people who you know full well don't want to be touched by you. People who start using weasel words to construct a defense are people who probably have got themselves into trouble.
 
This is what people mean by sexual assault not being taken seriously.

Innocent until proven guilty is one thing. But don't conflate it with "the law is ambiguous." It really isn't. Don't touch people who you know full well don't want to be touched by you. People who start using weasel words to construct a defense are people who probably have got themselves into trouble.

Spot on. I've never been ambiguously accused of sexual assault, it is not difficult. Innocent until proven guilty is paramount, but so is not spreading falsehoods around sexual assault.
 
Sorry but this is total nonsense. False sexual assault allegations same % as false burglary allegations, yet if he'd have been accused of that doubt you'd have left that post.
That depends on what study you look at, most studies have the rate a false accusations higher then other crimes.
 
False allegations occur an awful lot. I like to assume that this was one of these instances.
Have to flag you up on this. This kind of attitude is part of the reason why so few victims come forward on their assault. (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/unreported-rapes-the-silent-shame-7561636.html)

Innocent until proven guilty is fine as a legal maxim. But a lack of proof for a guilty verdict does not make someone innocent. Court cases do not prove innocence in general, only that there's a lack of evidence for a guilty verdict. Many guilty people will go through the legal process and be declared innocent, only for a lack of evidence. And it is fairly notorious how few rapists get convicted. Partly because so few victims come forward, partly because of how difficult it is to prove rape (since evidence is often one's word against another's). So when people label someone as a false accuser just because they have failed to prove rape, that's not really a fair representation of what may have happened.

So you don't have to believe that Muliaina sexually assaulted her, but equally you don't have anywhere near enough evidence to say that this is a false accusation.
 
Have to flag you up on this. This kind of attitude is part of the reason why so few victims come forward on their assault. (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/unreported-rapes-the-silent-shame-7561636.html)

Innocent until proven guilty is fine as a legal maxim. But a lack of proof for a guilty verdict does not make someone innocent. Court cases do not prove innocence in general, only that there's a lack of evidence for a guilty verdict. Many guilty people will go through the legal process and be declared innocent, only for a lack of evidence. And it is fairly notorious how few rapists get convicted. Partly because so few victims come forward, partly because of how difficult it is to prove rape (since evidence is often one's word against another's). So when people label someone as a false accuser just because they have failed to prove rape, that's not really a fair representation of what may have happened.

So you don't have to believe that Muliaina sexually assaulted her, but equally you don't have anywhere near enough evidence to say that this is a false accusation.

Good post. It's a huge problem that a lot of the time victims don't come forward and that even when some do, they are not believed and their allegations not taken seriously.
 
Super post from j'nuh. No one is saying MM is guilt or that he should be put through ringer but also important to not dismiss sexual assault claims on spurious grounds without proving their falsehood.
 
Citation needed


What is ambiguous about that?

Can have your opinion but you don't get to make up your own facts.

Part (b) is pretty ambiguous. What constitutes sexual touching to one party might not to another. It's hard to say.

As to the sports thing, that's pretty much common sense. There are countless examples of women fabricating stories about sexual assault perpetrated by footballers that they can sell to the papers for a quick bit of cash.

Sexual assault is a big issue. It's incredibly damaging to those on the end of it. However, it's also a terrible thing to be wrongly accused of and can pretty much destroy a person. Innocent until proven guilty has to apply to all incidents, not just the ones we deem not so serious. And if he's not judged guilty of any wrongdoing suspicion must stop. Unfortunately that's usually not the case and once accused of sexual assault a person will be socially ostracized regardless of verdict.
 
Part (b) is pretty ambiguous. What constitutes sexual touching to one party might not to another. It's hard to say.

As to the sports thing, that's pretty much common sense. There are countless examples of women fabricating stories about sexual assault perpetrated by footballers that they can sell to the papers for a quick bit of cash.

Sexual assault is a big issue. It's incredibly damaging to those on the end of it. However, it's also a terrible thing to be wrongly accused of and can pretty much destroy a person. Innocent until proven guilty has to apply to all incidents, not just the ones we deem not so serious. And if he's not judged guilty of any wrongdoing suspicion must stop. Unfortunately that's usually not the case and once accused of sexual assault a person will be socially ostracized regardless of verdict.

Part B has a legal framework it is not ambiguous in slightest. 'Common sense' again I need evidence for such a weighty claim to be thrown around?
There are countless examples of women fabricating stories about sexual assault perpetrated by footballers that they can sell to the papers for a quick bit of cash.
Any examples?

I know that people believe this to be the case but it is not true IMO, I don't think many women lie about being raped/assaulted and the lack of concrete examples in this thread is pretty telling.
 
Part B has a legal framework it is not ambiguous in slightest. 'Common sense' again I need evidence for such a weighty claim to be thrown around?

Any examples?

I know that people believe this to be the case but it is not true IMO, I don't think many women lie about being raped/assaulted and the lack of concrete examples in this thread is pretty telling.
Well for a start you should educate yourself on the case of professional footballer Ched Evans and the mountains of evidence that suggest his innocence.
Despite that he was sentenced to five years imprisonment and upon his release has been completely and utterly ostracized with no professional side wishing to take him on.
Further reading on Marshawn Lynch , Kobe Bryant , David Goodwillie and a quick google will find you plenty more.

As Feic said allegations and rumour like these don't just disappear once charges are dropped or even when someone is proven innocent. Robin Van Persie was and occasionally still is the victim of chants claiming he is a rapist Despite being cleared of any wrongdoing.

And don't take me an ignorant fool who doesn't understand the realities of what Sexual assault or rape can do to an individual. I've seen and continue to see first hand in girls close to me what the repercussions are.
But on the other hand I've also seen the damage false accusations do to an individuals name and often livelyhood and as such especially in the case of professional athletes I take them with quite a pinch of salt until proven otherwise.
 
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Well for a start you should educate yourself on the case of professional footballer Ched Evans and the mountains of evidence that suggest his innocence.
Despite that he was sentenced to five years imprisonment and upon his release has been completely and utterly ostracized with no professional side wishing to take him on.
Further reading on Marshawn Lynch , Kobe Bryant , David Goodwillie and a quick google will find you plenty more.

As Feic said allegations and rumour like these don't just disappear once charges are dropped or even when someone is proven innocent. Robin Van Persie was and occasionally still is the victim of chants claiming he is a rapist Despite being cleared of any wrongdoing.

And don't take me an ignorant fool who doesn't understand the realities of what Sexual assault or rape can do to an individual. I've seen and continue to see first hand in girls close to me what the repercussions are.
But on the other hand I've also seen the damage false accusations do to an individuals name and often livelyhood and as such especially in the case of professional athletes I take them with quite a pinch of salt until proven otherwise.

Ched Evans is a rapist, fact you are defending him tells me all I need to know. No side should take a rapist on, it is a privilege to be professional football player, not a right.
Goodwillie had charges dropped against him, doesn't mean he was innocent and his accuser has also won legal aid to sue him which is extremely difficult to do suggesting she has a strong case.

Kobe Bryant
First, I want to apologize directly to the young woman involved in this incident. I want to apologize to her for my behavior that night and for the consequences she has suffered in the past year. Although this year has been incredibly difficult for me personally, I can only imagine the pain she has had to endure.
Sound like someone who was falsely accused? He also earns $25 million per year, so I think his life is far from ruined.

Marshawn Lynch could well be exception which proves the rule. Most people charged with sexual assault are guilty, that shouldn't have any impact on MM guilt or innocence but you dismissing it off hand demonstrates why women don't come forward.
 
Part (b) is pretty ambiguous. What constitutes sexual touching to one party might not to another. It's hard to say.


it's really really not ambiguous, I suggest if there is any ambiguity in your mind then you've already over stepped the mark.


Can you actually give an example where ti might be construed differently by one person to another?
 
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Ched Evans is a rapist, fact you are defending him tells me all I need to know. No side should take a rapist on, it is a privilege to be professional football player, not a right.
Goodwillie had charges dropped against him, doesn't mean he was innocent and his accuser has also won legal aid to sue him which is extremely difficult to do suggesting she has a strong case.

Kobe Bryant

Sound like someone who was falsely accused? He also earns $25 million per year, so I think his life is far from ruined.

Marshawn Lynch could well be exception which proves the rule. Most people charged with sexual assault are guilty, that shouldn't have any impact on MM guilt or innocence but you dismissing it off hand demonstrates why women don't come forward.
Good god look at the ****ing evidence in the Evans case. The grounds that it was deemed rape was that the individual was too drunk to consent , when there is video footage of the girl upon entering the hotel , remembering her pizza going back to get it from the taxi , and in a full set of High heels completing a deep squat rummaging through her bag and collecting the pizza flawlessly. Also samples given the next day showed no Alcohol to be in her system whatsoever which is very unlikely in the event of someone becoming "blackout drunk". She also claimed she may have been spiked , again nothing showed up in her system except for coke and cannabanoids which she denied taking.
" The complainant submitted in evidence that she would normally and regularly drink well in excess of what she had consumed on this particular night out."
"The friends who were with her on the night all testified that she was not particularly drunk."
Regardless he is appealing his conviction and time will tell. But in light of all this in my opinion the argument that the complainant was too drunk to consent doesn't hold water.


Kobe's complainant also refused to testify in criminal court. However she did take an undisclosed fee at civil hearing. Which she sought in advance of any criminal proceedings against the accused rapist. His statement taken without the context of his defence appears to be quite damning though.

RVP , Lynch , Brian Banks Robhinio , Johnny Evans , Christiano Ronaldo , Loic Remy along with countless others, have all been accused and been either cleared or had charges dropped. Indeed having charges dropped doesn't necessarily equate to innocence but if someone is going to raise make an accusation of a crime as heinous and disgusting as rape then why do they not fight tooth and nail to see justice served.

And just to sign off your statement that my opinions on the Evans case tell you all you need to know is complete ****e. I abhor rape and the scum who force themselves on others. And in the case of stonewall convictions I believe life imprisonment is the only appropriate sentence as the victim must live with the aftermath for the duration of theirs.
I am just however an awful lot more careful than most to buy into these stories where no details have emerged , a player is released without charge , and high profile athletes so regularly have these accusations made against them.
 
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RVP , Lynch , Brian Banks Robhinio , Johnny Evans , Christiano Ronaldo , Loic Remy along with countless others, have all been accused and been either cleared or had charges dropped. Indeed having charges dropped doesn't necessarily equate to innocence but if someone is going to raise make an accusation of a crime as heinous and disgusting as rape then why do they not fight tooth and nail to see justice served.

Because the CPS and Police decide if prosecution should occur NOT the victim. They won't prosecute unless they fee they have strong chances of a win, that doesn't mean there is no assault.

And just to sign off your statement that my opinions on the Evans case tell you all you need to know is complete ****e. I abhor rape and the scum who force themselves on others. And in the case of stonewall convictions I believet's life imprisonment is the only appropriate sentence as the victim must live with the aftermath for the duration of theirs.
I am just however an awful lot more careful than most to buy into these stories where no details have emerged , a player is released without charge , and high profile athletes so regularly have these accusations made against them.

what's the % of professional sports people that have rape cases put against them and then dropped (which is essentially what you are using as the basis of a false accusation) then as opposed to those convicted?
 
^ I'm not doubting you hate rape, never would question that just think the 'sport stars are falsely accused' thing is a meme and we disagree on it that is all I meant by that I don't think any sane person would accuse anyone of being pro rape. As pointed out above rape is an extremely hard crime to get a conviction for, so CPS doesn't go forward a lot of time (10% of rapes which are reported ,only 40% of rapes are reported, go to trial) nothing to do with victim.

I also think that you have found maybe 10 cases out of thousands of professional sportsmen were charges are not brought (again not, not guilty just not enough evidence to go to court) and have decided there is this epidemic. Also Ched Evan's victim received no money for his case and has had to change her identity 3 times and move house a dozen. Would that sound like someone lying for gain?
Anyway will wait for MM case to be settled, hope he is innocent and it never happened.
 
Not according to the FBI, false accusations are about 2-6% same as most other crimes.
First of all that's wrong they estimate the figure to be 8%, you don't provide any evidence for you assertion that it's the same whereas I can. feminists usually argue that it's but in reality it isn't a study by Kanin arrived at a figure of 41%. If you can cite literature where they have found it to be 2% cite it, I would be interested to read the methods they used to arrive at those results.
 
I never thought that Muliaina would do such a thing. Was a big fan off him aswell, but not now.

Very disappointing and disrespectful.
 

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