MMA/UFC thread

[Cruz_del_Sur]

My other dream fight, in case you're wondering, is Pereira vs Chimaev at middleweight (or whatever). It'll never happen, i know.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

I guess i wasn't clear. My point wasn't specifically about Ireland. I used Ireland because, well, we were talking about CM. But the argument, i believe, is universal. If you are really, i mean really good at what you do and what you do happens to be a somewhat popular or high value added endeavor, changes of you getting away with murder are rather high. Conor, Maradona, Mayweather, Tyson, Balotelli, Suarez, McEnroe, Keane... the list is endless.
As much as i hate it sports are a form of entertainment and controversy appears to entertain a LOT of people. People, i sadly but undoubtedly believe, look the other way. I am using the word 'believe' rather generously there, as there is a gargantuan amount of evidence to support this.
Of course behaving like an arse will make you lose some fans. But my point is that the meaningful increases or slumps in popularity generally come from winning or losing, rather than being a good or a bad person.



I'd love to see the Irish viewership numbers for his fight vs Khabib and see if that looks reasonable or not. My anecdotal experience: i'd guess mma is more popular in Brazil than in Ireland, and i've never seen brazilians prepare for a ufc event the way the irish did when Conor was fighting. It wasnt just about how histrionic they were. It was about sheer numbers. Including (and specially) his fight against Khabib.
But again, anecdotal and i havent seen the any figures.

My argument is impossible to prove as it is counterfactual by construction, but here it goes: had he won his fight against Khabib, people wouldnt have given a flying turd about his dealings with gangs or his abuses (overall figures, course). His problem, popularity wise, wasnt that he was an arse. The problem was that he lost. The how didnt help either.

Anyway

Not sure about Belal. My dream fight was Khamzat vs Shavkat and last weeks fight kinda destroyed that idea. I have read some people claiming he had a knee injury but you it's hard to know what to believe at this point.

I think MMA fans who'd watched him from the start stuck with him and he was still huge for the Khabib fight. But I think he'd lost a lot of people who were fans from the Mendez, Aldo and Alvarez fights. I wanted him to lose that Khabib fight and liked nothing about it with the shenanigans afterwards.

I think Aldo or Mayweather (although many saw that for the farce it was) was probably his peak in terms of popularity here whereas he grew elsewhere after.

He was mostly hated here soon after, most were turning this way but punching an old man in a pub was the real ticker. I remember being in Boston in 2020 and many people I spoke to would bring up McGregor and be shocked when I told him he wasn't liked at home.

His popularity dwindling here has very little to do with his fighting falling off and is at an all time low after his recent civil case.

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

Have to share

 

[Yulia]

I wanted him to lose that Khabib fight

It's funny... because from my side I wanted rather Khabib to loose,also because I didn't like his personality etc. And I didn't really know Conor before, that time I had an impression "ah,just a good fighter and a funny hooliganic guy, looks like a nice person in general". Weird how appearance can lie sometimes...I would never think something bad about McGregor just looking at him for the first time. Maybe just his nervous demeanor can "alert" at the beginning

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

And this is why Volk is the greatest ever.



I could make a case for Khabib and Islam too, tho. Thing is, Volk's case is more, how should i put this... 'romantic'. In the sense that he had it all, and risked it almost unnecessarily. Khabib didnt do that, but he had a hell of a reason for doing so, granted. And Islam? I'd admit he'd on track. Time will tell. I could put them all in the same boat.

I used the term unnecessarily on purpose here, to create a tension with what i am about to say next. He didnt have to, but in a way, he had no choice. Keyword being 'he'. If you want to beat the best you need to take chances. Not many can claim 'anyone, anytime, anywhere'. He is one of those. I cant think of another one that can make such a claim AND also destroyed a division. He gave Max 3 fights. Who does that? 99% of the fighters would have skipped the 3rd fight. 99% would have not tried to fight the greatest fighter of the division above his. 100% would have skipped the rematch against that same fighter on short notice. He didnt.

Short notice, injuries, weight class, location, travelling, the lot. Judges, critics or someone thought he got lucky with a result? Ok, let's do it again. He didnt give a ****. He wanted to fight. He wanted to win.

It'll come across as a corny-as-fvck cliche, but i couldn't help thinking of 'if'

'If you can make one heap of all your winnings
And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings
⁠And never breathe a word about your loss'

I know the tweet is probable just for show, but the narrative fits his actions. And I know i am an inch away from turning my posts into some sort of the volk appreciation society kind of thing. Apologies. He's earned it, tho.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Incredibly impressive from Khamzat but good lord it was boring, thankfully the rest of the card made up for it (two spinning elbow KOs?!)

Hard to see who challenges Khamzat really, RdR might be able to compete on the ground but likely gets sparked out on the feet

Imagine people will still be hoping Khamzat's gas tank is suspect - for someone who has grappled as long as he has, 25mins of pure wrestling will be nothing, maybe if you can force him to mix his martial arts more it might has him out?
Good luck, though - think he's matured a lot more since his 100mph starts that got him the poor gas tank reputation

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

Hmm, i have mixed feelings regarding the gas tank. It is the one thing i believe the stats could be misleading about. Key word being "could".
He dominated, completely, all 5 rounds. My question is not about dominance, but about energy use. In all 5 rounds he managed to get his op to the ground in what, 30 sec? Side control with him on top or better?

What was impressive imo was not that he managed to stay in control for 5 rounds. What was impressive, very impressive, was what he did the first 30 secs of each round that allowed him to be in control without having to spend much energy the other 4:30 mins. Especially when DDP knew exactly what was coming. I read a lot of people saying 'you can't stop that unless you start training wrestling when you are 5'.
I dont think that is true, and even then there are ways to make it
a) more costly for your opponent
b) get you down in a position that is not as unfavorable

Or, i cant believe i have to say this, shoot first. If you are THAT confident about having a better gas tank, shoot first. You wont win much, but it will drain him (you too, granted), you stop his momentum, run the clock and, and this is key, you dont get points for stopping a take down nor you lose points for failing one.
All that time scrambling vs time with Khamzat on top.
You are facing a guy with the best offense why wait for him to attack? Make him defend. PARTICULARLY if you believe you have a much better gas tank.

I dont think a rematch would go very differently. 100% speculation but i dont think DDP believes he can win. DDP said before something along the lines of 'i am counting on him taking me down. But can he keep me there?'
Well, he got taken down very, very fast. He was put in a rather uncomfortable position and Khamzat made a point of not letting him get up. I can imagine DDP thinking 'what the **** can i do?', and that can be devastating.

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

You know the funniest thing? before the fight, Khamzat had never been taken down. Not once. 20 attempts.
DDP was the only one who managed to bring him down, and it's not like he tried 45325423 times.

Been reading a bit about the fight and the reactions. Don't think they are fair towards DDP. Some are calling it the most dominant title fight ever. I get what they mean but i disagree. Comes down to the control vs damage thingie. He controlled the entire fight, but how many times was he at a point where you thought "ok, he's got him"?
I'd rather lose like DDP than by knock out. Any day. 10 times out of 10. He got his +500 times. Let me say that again. He got his +500 times. did you see his face at the end of the fight?
The only bruised thing was his ego.

I get why people prefer people throwing hands and kicks to wrestling, but i don't. I love them all the same.
My first thought while i was watching was 'Craig Jones must be losing the plot while watching this'. He is the kind of guy i'd want to be training with if i know my opponent will take me down.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Craig did post a joke about the fight on his Instagram story, could definitely see him working with DDP if the call came

I've been reading some pieces from analysts that have definitely made me more open to seeing the RDR fight - while I do still think Khamzat will have too much on the feet and will be able to turn that into getting into clinch/ground positions of his choosing, the analysts were saying how Khamzat is not good in guard, was poor there vs Burns and didn't want to go near it with DDP (I mean no-one chooses to be in guard)
RDR's BJJ is very very good and if the match does go to the ground it's definitely the most interesting stylistic matchup - Khamzat came from a pure wrestling background rather than Sambo so doesn't have the same ingrained instincts around the submission game that the other Caucasus fighters do

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

This is mental

Control: 2140
Sub At: 0

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

He's already called out RDR. I dont see RDR beating him.

All of this could very well be Bo Nickal's comeback story. I mean, put yourself in Bo's shoes. Styles make fights and all.

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

I saw DC saying that people like Anderson and Jones couldn't be in the conversation about the greatest because they both tested positive for banned substances. So basically if you cheat, you are out.
So far, so good. Now, and bear in mind this is a question, not a statement: if such is the bar that we decide to set, is DC's towel trick during the weigh ins considered cheating or not?
Again, sincere question.

DC said he was in "4-7 range". 4 being the best 4 fighters ever. I loved him as a fighter and i like him as a person, but this is just silly. Are we going to place DC above, dunno, Volk, BJ Penn, Jose Aldo, Islam, Cejudo, Rampage, Matt Hughes, Usman? And i am leaving pride out of the equation and looking the other way with the early days (Gracie and stuff).
Am i that off by not placing him in the top 10? I cant see the argument. I'd love to, but i really cannot. His reign at LHW was clouded by the fact that the one who beat him couldn't compete and the competition was 'meh' at best. At heavyweight he beat Stipe and Lewis. Sorry, i dont see how that lands you in the top 10 ever. I really do not. Help me!

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

I just re read my previous post. I love DC but i am still not convinced he is top 10 ever.

Impressive by IM. Gotta say something: craig jones is doing a hell of a job. Neither him nor Volk were ever close of being submitted (by a guy who has submitted quite a few!). Problem is positionally they are still on a worse position.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Incredibly dominant from Islam, but incredibly boring - to two ti.tle fights were absolute stinkers after the rest of the card

I'm looking forward to the Shavkat vs Islam fight if Shavkat can get fit before Islam retires (apparently he's had another injury), beyond that I think Islam just wrestlefucks everyone in the division. There's a few guys who have a punchers chance, but that's really it

Shame Usman has no knees, prime Usman vs Islam would've been very high level

Impressive by IM. Gotta say something: craig jones is doing a hell of a job. Neither him nor Volk were ever close of being submitted (by a guy who has submitted quite a few!). Problem is positionally they are still on a worse position.

Yeah, I think wrestling is just something you can't catch up on later in life - think GSP is the only fighter I can think of who had truly high level wrestling without being raised on it since he could walk
Sub defence is about as good as you can hope for - maybe you can trap them in a position long enough that you get stood up

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

I don't know what to expect next to be honest. If you were in IM's shoes, would you rather fight Shavkat at 170 or Ilia at 155? Taking into account $$$.
Not sure to be honest.

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

Oldie but a good one

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I don't know what to expect next to be honest. If you were in IM's shoes, would you rather fight Shavkat at 170 or Ilia at 155? Taking into account $$$.
Not sure to be honest.

I'm not sure that Islam will drop back down to 155 - the cut was obviously rough for him

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

I'm not sure that Islam will drop back down to 155 - the cut was obviously rough for him

Agreed. But the question is, would you rather struggle dropping back down to 155 and gaining a size advantage by doing so, or stay at 170, losing his size advantage and facing arguably the only person who can give him a run for his money wrestling wise.
I can see both sides of the argument.

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

What a fight. I have mixed feeling. Merab is as likeable as they come, but i believe Yan has been one of the most unlucky fighters ever. With the scorecards i mean. After that knee to the head against Sterling everything went wrong for him. A bit glad he's back in the conversation.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Agreed. But the question is, would you rather struggle dropping back down to 155 and gaining a size advantage by doing so, or stay at 170, losing his size advantage and facing arguably the only person who can give him a run for his money wrestling wise.
I can see both sides of the argument.

I’d like to see him fight Adam Beard at 250.