Maybe this is why I don't get the NH club rugby

[smartcooky]

So I'm watching the French Top 14 match this afternoon, between Racing and Toulon, and it occurs to me that I am hardly hearing any French player's names being mentioned by the commentators when Toulon have the ball. I hear planety of mention of Carl Hayman, Jonny Wilkinson, Michal Claassens, Bakkies Botha, Rudi Wulff, Matt Giteau, Steffon Armitage, Delon Armitage & Drew Mitchell. Nine of the starting XV are not even French, and there is only one Frenchman in the backline... Maxime Marmoz. He's the only French name I recognise.

I wonder how a Toulon supporter could even support this team. I mean, if there were nine foreign, non-NZ eligible players in the Crusaders starting XV, along with a few token Cantabs & Nelsonians, I wouldn't even bother turning on the TV to watch them play, and I would certainly never buy a ticket to go to a game. I simply could not support a Crusaders team in which most of the starting team weren't New Zealanders and weren't eligible for the All Blacks, and frankly, I cannot understand the mentality of supporters who do.

One or two foreign player perhaps, but nine!?

 

[Draggs]

That's a fair point, and it is always brought up. I think many in Toulon just like having a successful side and seeing some big names play.
I'd love to see the Dragons get to that level, and then adding some like Wilko and Botha to it would only make it better. There is, of course, a line, but it varies for each person.

 

[Feicarsinn]

Get yoself an Irish province. We dig that home grown ****.

 

[lynam1104]

What Feic said, I think the Irish teams have got the balance right mostly. The majority of the team is home grown with a few non Irish thrown in the shore up the side. Toulon are the extreme example of getting it wrong and I think I was form Toulon I'd pretty ****** off that a majority of the team were there for the money rather than the desire to play for and represent a region/area/club.

 

[welshglory]

It's also because you're an old fart

 

[Draggs]

Toulouse has a bit more of a 'local' balance while still having superstars. Quite a few homegrown players.

 

[St George]

"Maybe this is why I don't get the French club rugby"

I have changed the ***le to reflect more of what your post seems to be about.

England were heading the same way until the Participation Agreement incentivised teams to develop English players. I think the results are starting to show with some good young players coming through and a Junior World Cup under our belt. The Welsh have a similar agreement and have seen some results with their Juniors getting to the final. Their agreement also has non-Welsh quotas attached but i'm not sure if the England one does.
The French were about to sign their equivalent of a PA until the Union decided to play bullyboy and threatened the clubs over the HC.
As for the Irish, i dont see many new youngsters coming through in the same way, as it seems they are still playing the same old codgers from 10yrs ago. And the appeal of the Irish Regions is only possible if they have a viable product to sell, which is looking increasingly precarious in the long term with events playing out in Wales, England & France.

 

[Aspry]

As someone already say, Toulon is just an extreme case...it is pretty clear that not all the clubs from NH works like that, there is only a few of them.

 

[St George]

As someone already say, Toulon is just an extreme case...it is pretty clear that not all the clubs from NH works like that, there is only a few of them.

Oh well Cooky, it looks like i have to change your ***le again:


"Maybe this is why I don't get the Toulon club rugby"

 

[Peat]

...I cannot understand the mentality of supporters who do.

Because you always did. Because you do, your dad does, your best friend does, your workmate does. Because it's what you talk about at work. Because you go to the game, see your mates and have a good time. Because it's the quality local sport on your doorstep. And many, many other reasons. The club may not represent your community anymore in that it is formed of people from it, but it is still your community in terms of the fans and the investment. I'm a Crystal Palace fan. The players represent me in the flimsiest way possible and I don't really like football much anymore. But I remain a Crystal Palace fan because I am invested in that community. That's how it is for a lot of club fans.

To be honest, I don't really see too much difference between foreign players and English non-South London players at Crystal Palace. Neither is from the community I consider myself part of as a Crystal Palace fan. They're both imports. Barring a vague sense of duty to the national team, where's the difference?

 

[smartcooky]

"Maybe this is why I don't get the French club rugby"

I have changed the ***le to reflect more of what your post seems to be about.

England were heading the same way until the Participation Agreement incentivised teams to develop English players. I think the results are starting to show with some good young players coming through and a Junior World Cup under our belt. The Welsh have a similar agreement and have seen some results with their Juniors getting to the final. Their agreement also has non-Welsh quotas attached but i'm not sure if the England one does.
The French were about to sign their equivalent of a PA until the Union decided to play bullyboy and threatened the clubs over the HC.
As for the Irish, i dont see many new youngsters coming through in the same way, as it seems they are still playing the same old codgers from 10yrs ago. And the appeal of the Irish Regions is only possible if they have a viable product to sell, which is looking increasingly precarious in the long term with events playing out in Wales, England & France.

Fair enough Jim, in that it does seem to be the French teams that do this more than others. However, if PRL get their way, then IMO we will see English club rugby heading more towards what happens in the EPL, where sometimes "spot the Englishman" is no easy task. IIRC, the 2013/14 EPL season started with only 68 England qualified players; about three per team.

I'd have no objection to one or two "marquee" players in the Crusaders, but nine foreigners would make them no longer the Crusaders in my eyes. If I was a Toulon supporter from way back, they would lose me with this ridiculous state of affairs.

 

[McTallshort]

So I'm watching the French Top 14 match this afternoon, between Racing and Toulon, and it occurs to me that I am hardly hearing any French player's names being mentioned by the commentators when Toulon have the ball. I hear planety of mention of Carl Hayman, Jonny Wilkinson, Michal Claassens, Bakkies Botha, Rudi Wulff, Matt Giteau, Steffon Armitage, Delon Armitage & Drew Mitchell. Nine of the starting XV are not even French, and there is only one Frenchman in the backline... Maxime Marmoz. He's the only French name I recognise.

I wonder how a Toulon supporter could even support this team. I mean, if there were nine foreign, non-NZ eligible players in the Crusaders starting XV, along with a few token Cantabs & Nelsonians, I wouldn't even bother turning on the TV to watch them play, and I would certainly never buy a ticket to go to a game. I simply could not support a Crusaders team in which most of the starting team weren't New Zealanders and weren't eligible for the All Blacks, and frankly, I cannot understand the mentality of supporters who do.

One or two foreign player perhaps, but nine!?

You dont get NH club rugby? So what, dont watch it Im sure the clubs here will not lose any sleep about it.

 

[Nielsch]

So I'm watching the French Top 14 match this afternoon, between Racing and Toulon, and it occurs to me that I am hardly hearing any French player's names being mentioned by the commentators when Toulon have the ball. I hear planety of mention of Carl Hayman, Jonny Wilkinson, Michal Claassens, Bakkies Botha, Rudi Wulff, Matt Giteau, Steffon Armitage, Delon Armitage & Drew Mitchell. Nine of the starting XV are not even French, and there is only one Frenchman in the backline... Maxime Marmoz. He's the only French name I recognise.

I wonder how a Toulon supporter could even support this team. I mean, if there were nine foreign, non-NZ eligible players in the Crusaders starting XV, along with a few token Cantabs & Nelsonians, I wouldn't even bother turning on the TV to watch them play, and I would certainly never buy a ticket to go to a game. I simply could not support a Crusaders team in which most of the starting team weren't New Zealanders and weren't eligible for the All Blacks, and frankly, I cannot understand the mentality of supporters who do.

One or two foreign player perhaps, but nine!?

wow, are there really that many foreigners at toulon? how come no one else noticed and remarked that earlier?

 

[Prestwick]

I can answer this guys, allow me:



Done. We can close this thread now. There is nothing more we can say about this subject.

 

[smartcooky]

You dont get NH club rugby? So what, dont watch it Im sure the clubs here will not lose any sleep about it.

This is a forum

In a forum, we express opinions

If you don't like my opinions, eff off or don't reply

simples!

 

[Gavin]

Toulon are extreme because they have money. Anyway, shouldn't southern hemisphere supporters not be glad that the north is taking their 'old and past it' players. If the north didn't then it might hinder the development of younger players.

For a true look at northern hemisphere rugby you need to watch the Pro12 and Aviva Premiership.

 

[Prestwick]

On a more serious note, I do think that the Home Nations have the balance down pretty well. Most clubs, provinces and regions have good talent development and academy programs and invest well in their local amateur clubs.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Because you always did. Because you do, your dad does, your best friend does, your workmate does. Because it's what you talk about at work. Because you go to the game, see your mates and have a good time. Because it's the quality local sport on your doorstep. And many, many other reasons. The club may not represent your community anymore in that it is formed of people from it, but it is still your community in terms of the fans and the investment. I'm a Crystal Palace fan. The players represent me in the flimsiest way possible and I don't really like football much anymore. But I remain a Crystal Palace fan because I am invested in that community. That's how it is for a lot of club fans.

To be honest, I don't really see too much difference between foreign players and English non-South London players at Crystal Palace. Neither is from the community I consider myself part of as a Crystal Palace fan. They're both imports. Barring a vague sense of duty to the national team, where's the difference?

This, if Leinster brought in 10 Southern Hemisphere players this Summer would I be happy? No! Would I keep supporting them? Yes!

The reasons above are why you support a team, you may not feel as close to it as if it were 11 locals but you continue to support your team. The reasons above are also the reasons I don't support a Premiership team, I supported Man U when I was younger because they were the best but now, despite continuing to watch the EPL, I don't support anyone because I don't have a connection like Peat does with any side.

As for Toulon, I think they're a **** club with a **** attitude and a **** owner but I completely understand how the locals who have supported them all their lives continue to do so!

 

[Groundhog]

Why do Toulon supporters support Toulon? I can only assume it's due to poor upbringing and deeply seated behavioral problems.

 

[ruggabee]

This, if Leinster brought in 10 Southern Hemisphere players this Summer would I be happy? No! Would I keep supporting them? Yes!

The reasons above are why you support a team, you may not feel as close to it as if it were 11 locals but you continue to support your team. The reasons above are also the reasons I don't support a Premiership team, I supported Man U when I was younger because they were the best but now, despite continuing to watch the EPL, I don't support anyone because I don't have a connection like Peat does with any side.

As for Toulon, I think they're a **** club with a **** attitude and a **** owner but I completely understand how the locals who have supported them all their lives continue to do so!

This and what Peat said. Also it seems to me that the Southern teams are too poor to bring in multiple imports even if they wanted to. If all the clubs around the world were wealthy then rugby would be very much like soccer. To me the only reason the Southern teams pretty much consist of home grown players is because they are financially behind their Northern counterparts. However I'm not saying it's a good thing for the locals. I definitely would be ****** to see what's happening with Toulon happen to Leinster.

Also you could say the Southern teams are forced to develop home grown talent because of the continous exodus. They don't have a choice when that's paired with their financial short comings.