Martin Johnson's Successor

[TRF_Olyy]

Kind of, as Mallinder contract runs out before the "deadline" of pre-SA tour

No idea about Smith, to be honest, though if he was the All Blacks attack coach then....yeah, I wouldn't mind him being involved :lol:

I supose the interim attack coach that is brought in by the caretaker coach could stick around for the SA tour, and then Smith could be brought in afterwards, if he wants it bad enough/the RFU want him bad enough

 

[Peat]

Kind of, as Mallinder contract runs out before the "deadline" of pre-SA tour

No idea about Smith, to be honest, though if he was the All Blacks attack coach then....yeah, I wouldn't mind him being involved :lol:

I supose the interim attack coach that is brought in by the caretaker coach could stick around for the SA tour, and then Smith could be brought in afterwards, if he wants it bad enough/the RFU want him bad enough

Or they appoint a team and do without him for the first tour which would not be ideal, but I'll accept that if needs be.

Kiwis, how do you rate him?

 

[nickdnz]

Or they appoint a team and do without him for the first tour which would not be ideal, but I'll accept that if needs be.

Kiwis, how do you rate him?

Pretty highly. He's credited with the All Blacks attack in recent years. I think he'd do pretty well as an assistant.

 

[Tomsey]

Smith is signed on to coach the Cheifs in the Super 15 until next year. Although Smith has coached in England before (he coached the Saints in 2001). I'm sure the RFU would prefer someone who has had recent experience coaching in England (or at least Europe). On the question of weather England will have a Kiwi coach I think its likely. Appointing Stuart Lancaster as a care taker for the 6 Nations means that they will delay appointing a​head coach until New Zealand has appointed their new coach. If they did it before the 6 Nations a lot of Kiwi coaches may have not apply for the job in they hope of holding out for the New Zealand role. Australia did a similar thing in in 2007 by waiting until Graham Henry had been reappointed to the All Blacks so they had a shot at signing Robbie Deans.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Seems that Lancaster, Rowntree and Farrell are set to be named as interim coaches

Guess that guarantees Owen Farrell a spot in the EPS

 

[psychic duck]

Seems that Lancaster, Rowntree and Farrell are set to be named as interim coaches

Guess that guarantees Owen Farrell a spot in the EPS

bad news for Owen Farrell, now unless he plays like Carter everybody will say he's only there because of his dad

Alec Stewart had a similar problem for the England cricket team once, until it was obvious he was the best keeper

 

[jeffb]

Owen is good enough, without his dad's help. A sad loss to RL.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Aye, he probably is.
I don't think he's as good as many make out, or as good as he was last season, but he's a very talented young player.
Would have Freddie Burns over him though
Probably Clegg too

 

[Teh Mite]

Owen is good enough, without his dad's help. A sad loss to RL.

In a team like Saracens where there's a strong bond between the players and a pack mentality, he's a very dangerous opponant For England where none of that sits, no. He's not up to scratch.

 

[j'nuh]

Aye, he probably is.
I don't think he's as good as many make out, or as good as he was last season, but he's a very talented young player.
Would have Freddie Burns over him though
Probably Clegg too

I can imagine (and hope for) 10. Flood 12. Farrell 13. Tuilagi 22. Burns

 

[Peat]

Although Smith has coached in England before (he coached the Saints in 2001). I'm sure the RFU would prefer someone who has had recent experience coaching in England (or at least Europe).

So far, judging from leaked reports to the media, this doesn't appear to be the case.

As for Farrell... he'd be a borderline case for selection in my eyes, and I'd probably rather see him play Saxons rugby.

 

[ZatarraIlPirata]

I can imagine (and hope for) 10. Flood 12. Farrell 13. Tuilagi 22. Burns

I agree with J'nuh...but don't you think that Saxons had to be deleted? For me it's important to give chances to young boys that came direct form under 20...take a look to Australia and Wales...people like Ford, Ransom and Kvesic could have chance for 2015...or not?!?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Not at all having an 'A' team is great for a country
It's not as if England don't put any youth in to their main squad, just so happens they play a bit of Saxons first, and I see no problem with that at all.

If Wales had an 'A' squad then I imagine North, Faletau, Prydie, Williams etc. would have all played for them before making the main squad

 

[Peat]

I agree with J'nuh...but don't you think that Saxons had to be deleted? For me it's important to give chances to young boys that came direct form under 20...take a look to Australia and Wales...people like Ford, Ransom and Kvesic could have chance for 2015...or not?!?

We will give them chances. We took an U20 to the World Cup remember. England are as good as just about any nation going and giving chances to young men at the moment, and better than quite a few as our academy products leave more ready for professional rugby than the youth products in some other countries (I'm thinking Ireland and Scotland in particular here).

However, the Saxons don't limit youth exposure to international rugby, they increase it. By having that lower tier against lower opposition, we increase the number of games in which young players can learn a bit about what international rugby is about. Its not the same thing as test level rugby, but it has a lot of similarities as well. When they then head onto the EPS - assuming they ever went through the Saxons (I don't recall Youngs or Lawes ever playing for them) - they know what its like to be in an international squad, they'll probably have met a few of the others, they'll have been through an international crucible.

Tuilagi went to the World Cup. He also played Saxons that year. It certainly didn't do him any harm. Every A game is another chance for the coach to run the rule over prospects. England has as many prospects as anyone; we can't fit them all into the Senior squad. The A team is crucial in that respects.

Trust me. The Saxons do not impede youth in this country in the slightest.

edit: All the people saying pick Farrell - why would you pick him ahead of Barritt, who is considered the better player of the two at Saracens?

 

[stus768]

I think Farrell is better than burns. Burns is overrated in my opinion. Hope one of these two is good enough in the next couple of years to replace flood, whom i don't think is world class.

 

[stus768]

I have a problem with the Saxons when they people like borthwick play for them. Seems completely pointless to me to pick people whose ability u know and who are over 30.

 

[Peat]

I have a problem with the Saxons when they people like borthwick play for them. Seems completely pointless to me to pick people whose ability u know and who are over 30.

Firstly, the Saxons need to include players like Borthwick when they're the fifth best lock due to the EPS structure - that way he is available for replacing an injured or out of form lock in the squad above (I appreciate he probably wasn't the 5th best at the time, I'm just using his name as an example in defence of experienced players in the Saxons). You can gamble on having an injury in the Saxons at the same time, but its not wise.

Secondly, once he's there - why not play him? It will do the players better to be part of a victory than a defeat. It will give the youngsters a leader, an experienced voice that can calm them down and an example to follow. That to my mind is better for their development than just throwing in all the pups together.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

(I don't recall Youngs or Lawes ever playing for them)

Both were named in Saxons squads, but then both were called up to the EPS to cover injury (though Youngs played a game for the Saxons before being called into the main squad)

I have a problem with the Saxons when they people like borthwick play for them. Seems completely pointless to me to pick people whose ability u know and who are over 30.

Yeah, it used to annoy me, too, when the Saxons was full of players dropped from the EPS/unlikely to ever play in the EPS again. It's changed in the past year or two though and now (or at least, did in the churchill/spring) contains a mixture of young players and players who were pushing for spots in the main squad (e.g. in the Churchill cup it had Trinder, Sharples, Benjamin etc. mixed in with players like Matt Stevens, Topsy Ojo, Mike Brown etc.)

 

[stus768]

Still don't see any point in playing him if he is part of the EPS, send him back to his club if he needs game time. He has been an England member enough not to really need to hang around.
the quality of opposition the saxons play isn't great so don't see Borthwick being the deciding factor in whether they beat a team like Canada. Also if he plays then u are keeping out another, younger player who will be sitting on the bench, not getting match experience. There may also be less likelihood of other leaders coming forward if a borthwick is there taking over.
Only time I would play them is if they are coming back from injury.

Also does anyone know who the saxons will play now that the Churchill cup is ended? I know they go on tour occasionally and with proper tours to the southern hemisphere squads will be larger.

 

[Peat]

Still don't see any point in playing him if he is part of the EPS, send him back to his club if he needs game time. He has been an England member enough not to really need to hang around.
the quality of opposition the saxons play isn't great so don't see Borthwick being the deciding factor in whether they beat a team like Canada. Also if he plays then u are keeping out another, younger player who will be sitting on the bench, not getting match experience. There may also be less likelihood of other leaders coming forward if a borthwick is there taking over.
Only time I would play them is if they are coming back from injury.

Also does anyone know who the saxons will play now that the Churchill cup is ended? I know they go on tour occasionally and with proper tours to the southern hemisphere squads will be larger.

Against Canada, then no (until it still doesn't hurt to have an experienced voice there). Against the likes of Ireland A, who beat us far too often for my liking, then yes, you do want someone like Borthwick (but better) there.

I dunno. I can see the downsides as well, but its a small enough matter at the end of the day if they are wrong, that I'm happy enough to trust the coaches at the end of the day.

Olyy - cheers for the stats. Half-right, that's not too bad...