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Martin Johnson

stus768 said:
Why not have the best person available? Why all the xenophobia? How can new ideas be transferred from more successful countries if new people aren't bought in?
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Xenophobic?
Don't be daft!
I'm just saying that it's supposed to be the team of your country - I've just always thought it strange that the guy in charge could be anyone, not from your country
I know every sport does it, it just seems a bit odd to me
 
3 out of 4 semi-final coaches are from New Zealand that I am afraid tells a story.
 
TRF_Getofmeland said:
I wouldn't class it xenophobia, that's a bit extreme... I don't want someone who is just here for the Salary or because they have got a name, I would like a proven English Coach, someone who feed the passion and pride into the English squad, I don't think a foreign coach would ever be able to do that..

I use the example of Football, England have a foreign coach, since the first one the team has lacked passion, pride and the things which make England...

We have a variety of depth and knowledge within this country regarding Rugby, and yes there are Ex players in this mix, but I agree we can't just pick some because of their playing career, as to play and to coach are two different tasks, but we should be encouraging the talent within the coaching scene, that means giving jobs to players when they retire, letting them move through the ranks of their clubs etc etc...
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If English passion relies solely on the coach then we are screwed. We need someone with more vision and more innovative ideas, not someone who brings out just passion, this could be achieved with a foreign coach and strong leaders.
The football team is a different situation, more to do with the club game being larger than the international game and English players being overrated in the Premiership.
 
Is Shaun Edwards a possibility? Or is he tied to Wales?

If/when someone else does come in, they need to be given control over picking their own assistant coaches.
 
j'nuh said:
Is Shaun Edwards a possibility? Or is he tied to Wales?

If/when someone else does come in, they need to be given control over picking their own assistant coaches.
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Not sure he'd want to come. England already turned him down once before when they had the chance.
 
JW. said:
Not sure he'd want to come. England already turned him down once before when they had the chance.
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Yeah they wanted him to have the saxons job which is a **** take tbh. There was talk that the RFU snobs did not want a northern league lad in charge of the union team,
 
TRF_RC said:
I think you mean he's the Gavin Henson of English rugby, right?
I agree...but not as talented ;P
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You get my point, my thoughts were running away with me, they are both very orange :p and you don't get a tan that good in Wales.
 
Saintjay said:
You get my point, my thoughts were running away with me, they are both very orange :p
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Yeah, I hate Cirpriani more. Henson let a fat chav get away, but Cirpriani let a gorgeous, curvaceous brunette in the shape of Kelly Brook get away. Anyone who's dumb enough to let that go deserves a life of destitute!
 
TRF_Getofmeland said:
I wouldn't class it xenophobia, that's a bit extreme... I don't want someone who is just here for the Salary or because they have got a name, I would like a proven English Coach, someone who feed the passion and pride into the English squad, I don't think a foreign coach would ever be able to do that..

I use the example of Football, England have a foreign coach, since the first one the team has lacked passion, pride and the things which make England...

We have a variety of depth and knowledge within this country regarding Rugby, and yes there are Ex players in this mix, but I agree we can't just pick some because of their playing career, as to play and to coach are two different tasks, but we should be encouraging the talent within the coaching scene, that means giving jobs to players when they retire, letting them move through the ranks of their clubs etc etc...
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I'll use the example of the England cricket team - coached by a foreigner and the best in the World.

Or the Welsh rugby team - coached by a Kiwi and capable of ***anic performances.

A foreigner doesn't affect the passion of the team at all. Not one iota. And frankly, England has always adopted foreigners fairly freely, as a nation. So not that anti-English imo.

So, all in all... yeah. I'll take a foreigner.
 
1.Johnson is an absolute hero, but as a player.
2. Of course he should go. he should never have been appointed in the first place. What company would appoint someone to a senior role with no experience.
3. For the same reason Carling, Greenwood and everyone else with no coaching experience should be ruled out.
4. Please lets not go the way of soccer with alternate calls for a cerebral overseas coach and a passionate English one.
5. I don't want a pasionate coach, I want one who understands how to coach and manage a rugby team.
6. English coaches are consistentlly failing to get the best out of English players, so if it has to be an overseas coach, fine.
 
Stuart Lancaster? He already knows most of the future players, and gets the best out of Crane.
 
(from a NZ perspective) I'd be interested to see how someone like John Kirwan would go coaching a team with real depth and world class talent. In many ways I'd prefer him as the next AB coach over Steve Hansen (whom I like in no other role than as a forwards coach). John Mitchell has top be a serious candidate for a South African coaching role. England have to have plenty of quality coaches though, I'd think someone like Jim Mallinder would be a good option for in the modern game.
 
Should Johnson go? Yes he should. I have on many occasion defended him and his selections (Deacon! what was I thinking) in the hope that it would come good but lets be honest the last 4 years have been mediocre at best. Yes we won the 6 nations, yes he brought on some good young players and yes we beat the Aussies a couple of times but we are still inconsistent, we still play a one dimensional game, we still have a shocking penalty count and we still after all the time he has had do not have a settled centre partnership.

England need several things....

1. A proper out and out openside flanker.
2.To start a game with 2 specialized props. FFS Rowntree you were a loosehead! how can it be obvious to every one but you Stevens isnt!
3.A true inside centre, can be of the Greenwood or Roberts or even D'Arcy mold but not a Fly half or someone more use to playing on the wing a proper, all singing all dancing inside Centre and not one whos initals are not the following....MT MB or SH.
4.New coaches.
5.and also a new head coach. One who has coached before and has his own team to bring in and while we are there get rid of Rob Andrew.
6. Some good young fly halfs like Farrell and Ford to work as Floods understudy. No more room for Wilkinson or Hodgson and please lets stop talking about Cipraini, he was never that good.

Jake White is the man for the main job, he already said it would be his dream job so lets buy him out of his new contract with the Brummbies I think and get him started.

The whole set up is wrong, selection needs to be more specalised and we need to find a way of bringing our back three into the game more. Basic Skills, fitness and disipline are poor and unless we get a real coach in who has real International experiance we are set for another 4 years of frustration.
 
Brendan Venter. At least he wouldn't have picked Tindall and Hape for 12.
 
ranger said:
Brendan Venter. At least he wouldn't have picked Tindall and Hape for 12.
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from the criteria of how Brendan Venter signed players he may favour South Africans in the side though, Mouritz Botha, Brad Barritt, Hendre Fourie and Matt Stevens could all be favoured

however I think the best appointment England should make is the newly available Marc Lievremont :lol:
 
England - What an embarrassment. I never thought I would be writing something like this but I feel completely let down by our National side.

In four years we’ve managed to go from a team with limited potential who played to their strengths and reached a World Cup final against the odds, to a team of losing quarter finalists who played below their potential and behaved more like they were on an U19 tour for a junior club. These guys are professional Rugby Players and are being paid handsomely. This should be reflected in their behaviour.

England must be the laughing stock of the Rugby World. We can’t afford this to happen again when we are hosts in 2015. Just look at the difference between England and Wales. We’ve beaten them twice in the last year, yet look at the two sides now. Wales’s selectors and coaches have been better as has the attitude of their (quite young) squad. Wales have had their share of idiot players over the years but they seem to have sorted that out now. We need to do the same.

Johnson was an inspirational player but he didn’t have a track record as a successful coach. Seems to me the experiment hasn’t worked and we now need to start building a new management and coaching team and to start blooding our promising young players now in building for the next World Cup. We will undoubtedly lose matches on the way but that’s a price worth paying. If we get it right we’ll be fielding a team of talented players just reaching their prime.

I think the time is up for Johnson and his coaches and also a lot of the old guard such as Messer’s Wilkinson, Thomson, Easter, Shaw (who played well), Tindall etc.
Let’s put all this behind us and look to the future.
 

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