Mark Hammett leaving at the end of the season

[Larksea]

tana's a class act eh?

I think he will go a long way, and by that I mean I can even see Tana coaching the All Blacks at some stage, not soon but he could be coaching for another 20 years if he wants hes still young and doing very well for his age as a coach.

Robbie Deans could be a blessing but Mark Hammett is basically from the Robbie Deans School of coaching. I'm pretty sure he was both a player and an assistant coach under Deans and wasn't that was one of the main reasons he got the hurricanes gig?

 

[nickdnz]

tana's a class act eh?

I think he will go a long way, and by that I mean I can even see Tana coaching the All Blacks at some stage, not soon but he could be coaching for another 20 years if he wants hes still young and doing very well for his age as a coach.

Robbie Deans could be a blessing but Mark Hammett is basically from the Robbie Deans School of coaching. I'm pretty sure he was both a player and an assistant coach under Deans and wasn't that was one of the main reasons he got the hurricanes gig?

I agree Tana has got potential, but like you say he's got a lot of time to get it right.

It's true that Hammett coached under Robbie Deans. But he wasn't Robbie Deans - and I think Robbie Deans is very much a bit of a one man show as a coach - at least that's what Richie McCaw said in his autobigraphy.

Chris Boyd is alright, but I don't know what he's accomplished to really be optimistic about. Our U20s lost in 2012 and Wellington hasn't won an ITM Cup yet (although he did fairly well to get us to the final). More to the point, I'm not as convinced a Wellingtonian as coach is a great idea (from a Wellingtonian myself). If there is one thing I think the Hurricanes have been really guilty of its ignoring promising talent within the Hurricanes region - instead choosing Wellington players. Looking at our squad this season, it's pretty clear there are a few Wellingtonian's that shouldn't really be there. I'd be interested to know what some of the Sharks supporters think of Boyd from his time with them?

 

[ABs2011]

This was what Canes supporters wanted, right? Congrats!!!

No, well not this Canes supporter anyway. I want a clean out of the back office and for them to get it into their heads that the Canes is more than just the Wellington Union (and not just that but they need to quit the infighting within the Union as well). We've recently lost the whole of the Taranaki Union and with more players from the Manawatu playing for the Chiefs (and with Rennie's connections) I wouldn't be surprised if Manawatu is next to leave! The Hurricanes wont be any good so long as the isolate the "outside" unions and players.

Just to reiterate, this is the problem with the Canes:

Robbie Fruean, Jamison Gibson-Park, Brendan O'Connor, Kane Barrett, Charlie Ngatai, Andrew Horrell, Nick Crosswell, Ross Filipo, Ben Tameifuna, Hikawera Elliot, Mahonri Schwalger, Ma'a Nonu, Piri Weepu, Israel Dagg, Zac Guildford, Adam Whitelock, George Whitelock, Luke Whitelock, Sam Whitelock, Kurt Baker, Jason Emery, Shaun Treeby, Aaron Cruden, Willie Ripia, Lima Sopoaga, Aaron Smith, Frae Wilson, TJ Ioane, Chris King, Jed Robinson, Jason Woodward, Tamati Ellison, Scott Fuglistaller, Alby Mathewson and Richard Buckman

All players from our region that for one reason or another are no longer here!

 

[ABs2011]

So that will mean Nonu wanting to return to the Hurricanes now Hammett is going.

I guess it depends on who the coach is and where management now sits on the issue. I understand Maa is keen to come back to Welly, but I also understand the majority (of those involved in Wellington Rugby) do NOT want him back.

 

[ABs2011]

How are we short on quality players? We have 10 current or past All Blacks and then guys like Shields, Lam, A. Savea and Leiua. The reason we lack depth is because Hammett recruited poorly. This has nothing to do with the "back office" and all to do with an inexperienced coach being accelerated before he was ready.

First of all you need to understand now that Super Rugby, and being successful is about having a "squad" of quality players now, having a handful of quality players is not enough. Check out the teams that consistently perform over the last few years - Crusaders and Chiefs right? Their squads go deep with many quality players. Now look at the teams that go OK sometimes but crumble at some (sometimes many) stage(s) of the comp - Blues Highlanders and Canes - common theme of those teams?? Depth and lack of Quality players! The Canes have a handful of quality players (Barrett, Smith, Savea and maybe Vito??) and several others that are above average at super rugby level, but now look at all those players they have lost over the years:
Robbie Fruean, Charlie Ngatai, Ben Tameifuna, Mahonri Schwalger, Ma'a Nonu, Piri Weepu, Israel Dagg, George Whitelock, Luke Whitelock, Sam Whitelock, Jason Emery, Aaron Cruden, Lima Sopoaga, Aaron Smith, Jason Woodward, Tamati Ellison, Alby Mathewson to name a few! The simple fact is that Hammett did not have a squad, particularly in the early years that was ever going to do particularly well.

And just to clarify, Hammett is not in charge of recruitment, it's not his fault the Canes never had a quality squad for the duration of his tenure.

Just finally, I don't think Hammett was a particularly good coach, but at least he came in and tried to clean up the mess that had been created before him. Its the culture, attitude and professionalism that has been the bain of the Canes franchise, not the coach! Canes supporters are kidding them selves if they believe the coach is the problem. If you don't believe me, come down to Welly and have a chat with people at the grass roots of Wellington Rugby (not to mention the "outer" unions). You will soon get a sense of the problems with the Canes!

 

[nickdnz]

First of all you need to understand now that Super Rugby, and being successful is about having a "squad" of quality players now, having a handful of quality players is not enough. Check out the teams that consistently perform over the last few years - Crusaders and Chiefs right? Their squads go deep with many quality players. Now look at the teams that go OK sometimes but crumble at some (sometimes many) stage(s) of the comp - Blues Highlanders and Canes - common theme of those teams?? Depth and lack of Quality players! The Canes have a handful of quality players (Barrett, Smith, Savea and maybe Vito??) and several others that are above average at super rugby level, but now look at all those players they have lost over the years:
Robbie Fruean, Charlie Ngatai, Ben Tameifuna, Mahonri Schwalger, Ma'a Nonu, Piri Weepu, Israel Dagg, George Whitelock, Luke Whitelock, Sam Whitelock, Jason Emery, Aaron Cruden, Lima Sopoaga, Aaron Smith, Jason Woodward, Tamati Ellison, Alby Mathewson to name a few! The simple fact is that Hammett did not have a squad, particularly in the early years that was ever going to do particularly well.

And just to clarify, Hammett is not in charge of recruitment, it's not his fault the Canes never had a quality squad for the duration of his tenure.

Just finally, I don't think Hammett was a particularly good coach, but at least he came in and tried to clean up the mess that had been created before him. Its the culture, attitude and professionalism that has been the bain of the Canes franchise, not the coach! Canes supporters are kidding them selves if they believe the coach is the problem. If you don't believe me, come down to Welly and have a chat with people at the grass roots of Wellington Rugby (not to mention the "outer" unions). You will soon get a sense of the problems with the Canes!

I do agree that the Canes backroom staff is incompetant and needs to change - but the coach is very much involved with recruitment! It's an area Hammett I think has been poor in. Ignoring guys that we didn't sign - we lost a huge number of players who were squad members in 2011. Sure Hore and Nonu may have been problems, but Aaron Cruden and Hosea Gear leaving does reflect that the Canes coaching didn't have faith by certain players.

 

[ABs2011]

I do agree that the Canes backroom staff is incompetant and needs to change - but the coach is very much involved with recruitment! It's an area Hammett I think has been poor in. Ignoring guys that we didn't sign - we lost a huge number of players who were squad members in 2011. Sure Hore and Nonu may have been problems, but Aaron Cruden and Hosea Gear leaving does reflect that the Canes coaching didn't have faith by certain players.

I think you'll find that it was the franchise that players didn't have faith in (rather than the coach), but that is just what I am hearing down here in Welly. I agree that Hammett has a say in recruitment, but somewhat akin to the Warriors, players don't want to come to a crappy franchise - in fact they leave it! I also don't think there is very much Hammett could have done in this amount of time in terms of recruitment. Who was on the market anyway? Benji? Savea? Barrett? At least he/we kept the later two. Could have easily lost them from what I hear. Watch this space re Barrett as well - Blues next season?? And if that happens will we blame the new coach (and herald Hammett for keeping him this season) or will the franchise be at fault......?

 

[William18]

First of all you need to understand now that Super Rugby, and being successful is about having a "squad" of quality players now, having a handful of quality players is not enough. Check out the teams that consistently perform over the last few years - Crusaders and Chiefs right? Their squads go deep with many quality players. Now look at the teams that go OK sometimes but crumble at some (sometimes many) stage(s) of the comp - Blues Highlanders and Canes - common theme of those teams?? Depth and lack of Quality players! The Canes have a handful of quality players (Barrett, Smith, Savea and maybe Vito??) and several others that are above average at super rugby level, but now look at all those players they have lost over the years:
Robbie Fruean, Charlie Ngatai, Ben Tameifuna, Mahonri Schwalger, Ma'a Nonu, Piri Weepu, Israel Dagg, George Whitelock, Luke Whitelock, Sam Whitelock, Jason Emery, Aaron Cruden, Lima Sopoaga, Aaron Smith, Jason Woodward, Tamati Ellison, Alby Mathewson to name a few! The simple fact is that Hammett did not have a squad, particularly in the early years that was ever going to do particularly well.

And just to clarify, Hammett is not in charge of recruitment, it's not his fault the Canes never had a quality squad for the duration of his tenure.

Just finally, I don't think Hammett was a particularly good coach, but at least he came in and tried to clean up the mess that had been created before him. Its the culture, attitude and professionalism that has been the bain of the Canes franchise, not the coach! Canes supporters are kidding them selves if they believe the coach is the problem. If you don't believe me, come down to Welly and have a chat with people at the grass roots of Wellington Rugby (not to mention the "outer" unions). You will soon get a sense of the problems with the Canes!

You can talk about the mess and the culture if you want. But let's look at that. Playoffs 5/8 times under Colin Cooper. Some of the names you mention that the Hurricanes lost were indeed lost directly because of Hammett. I hear Barrett almost went to the Blues because of the coaching staff up there. Julian Savea was also unhappy with the coaching staff and almost went to the Crusaders. I don't know whether you know Julian but he would be one of the most loyal Wellingtonians out. For him to consider leaving is areal indictment. Another example: Hammett names Ray Lee Lo rookie of the year and does nothing to resign him. What position do we need help in this year? That's right, 12. I don't think you can be coach of a franchise for four years and blame anyone else. With the talent we have, Hammett had ever opportunity to make this franchise a success and the failure is his own.

You go on about the depth of the Chiefs? No, their depth isn't very good at all. James Lowe, Andrew Horrell, Tom Marshall, Augustine Pulu, Puliasi Manu and Michael Fitzgerald are the players who sit on their bench. None of those players are anything special for me and I wouldn't say those players give a team fantastic depth. I maintain that man for man the Hurricanes have the better individuals but the Chiefs are a true team where everyone knows their role.

I live in Wellington as I have all my life. I know very much about grassroots rugby in Wellington.

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

You can talk about the mess and the culture if you want. But let's look at that. Playoffs 5/8 times under Colin Cooper. Some of the names you mention that the Hurricanes lost were indeed lost directly because of Hammett. I hear Barrett almost went to the Blues because of the coaching staff up there. Julian Savea was also unhappy with the coaching staff and almost went to the Crusaders. I don't know whether you know Julian but he would be one of the most loyal Wellingtonians out. For him to consider leaving is areal indictment. Another example: Hammett names Ray Lee Lo rookie of the year and does nothing to resign him. What position do we need help in this year? That's right, 12. I don't think you can be coach of a franchise for four years and blame anyone else. With the talent we have, Hammett had ever opportunity to make this franchise a success and the failure is his own.

You go on about the depth of the Chiefs? No, their depth isn't very good at all. James Lowe, Andrew Horrell, Tom Marshall, Augustine Pulu, Puliasi Manu and Michael Fitzgerald are the players who sit on their bench. None of those players are anything special for me and I wouldn't say those players give a team fantastic depth. I maintain that man for man the Hurricanes have the better individuals but the Chiefs are a true team where everyone knows their role.

I live in Wellington as I have all my life. I know very much about grassroots rugby in Wellington.

I think most people would disagree with you completely.

 

[ABs2011]

I guess we will have to agree to disagree mate. Just to be clear though, I am far from saying Hammett shouldn't shoulder some of the blame for the Canes failings, what I am also saying is that the franchise needs to get their act together as well. Until then we will not be consistently successful!

Just a couple things on your post though, I simply can't understand how you can say you have a good understanding of grass roots Wellington Rugby and not realize there is serious discontent down here about how the union as well as the Canes franchise is managed. It seems you are just another person that blames the coach for everything cause it's an easy out, or maybe you just don't like Hammett and are trying to make a point of that. The problem I have is that if the Canes franchise blindly blame the coach for all their troubles then things aren't going to improve down here.

Quick question; seeing as you know all about Wellington Rugby, now that Hammett is gone, I assume we are going to be able to keep Barrett for next year? Is that correct in your understanding?

Also, Fish has probably put it a bit more succinctly than me, but I disagree whole heartedly about your comment re the Chiefs and their depth. We can argue till we are blue in the face about each player, but the simple fact is they are the most injury plagued NZ franchise yet they top the division - not to mention the fact that they are 2 time champions and compared to other clubs have very few "stars". Are you saying that is all luck, all down to coaching thereby dismissing the player pool they have which has gotten them there? or is there a chance that they are successful via a number of reasons, one of which being the simple fact they have a deep squad that can cover injury and can get them through the season, into the playoffs and primed for finals footy?? I'd very strongly argue that the later is a big factor.

One thing we can probably agree on is that the Canes need a bloody good coach that will take the lead and everyone else will follow (shame we didn't keep Rennie in the franchise area huh!!....). Time will tell I guess........