Magners League welcomes Italian teams

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

It's official.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>

http://www.magnersleague.com/news/4855.php

Celtic Rugby is delighted to announce today (Monday, 8 March, 2010) that from next season the Magners League will include two teams from Italy. The 10th season of the tournament will see the Magners League expanded to four nations as Italy joins Ireland, Scotland and Wales in a high profile 12-team cross-border competition designed to considerably enhance both playing standards and commercial viability for the competing countries.

The three Celtic Unions have unanimously agreed to the introduction of two new Italian super sides and the four-year agreement will see Benetton Treviso and Aironi Rugby competing against defending champions Munster and the other nine Celtic teams on a home and away basis.

Benetton Treviso will have their headquarters at Stadio Comunale di Monigo while Aironi, who will be based at Stadio Luigi Zaffanella, will involve various clubs from the Lombardia and Emilia-Romagna regions.

The move to welcome Italian sides comes at the end of a year-long review of the viability of expanding the tournament, the detailed analysis and due diligence undertaken by the sports consultancy arm of Deloittes and focusing on the basis of long term financial capacity to support the teams and commit to the league.

David Jordan, Director of Celtic Rugby, said: "This is another massive step forward for the Magners League and follows the decision to go to a top four Play-Off system to determine our champion team.

"As well as providing more fixtures for the teams already involved this will also bring both a major cash injection into the competition and greater exposure across Europe.

"The implementation of the Plays-Offs and the Magners League Grand Final this season has already seen a marked improvement in the competitiveness of the League and the arrival of two Italian teams will provide another boost to the competition.

"Operationally it will present new challenges, as well as opportunities, but by introducing Italy into the Celtic fold it will also dramatically broaden the appeal of our product.

"It is anticipated that the Italian super clubs will be largely made up of Italian internationals of full, A and under 20 levels, with a sprinkling of top class overseas players set to provide further extra strength and spice to the tournament."
Giancarlo Dondi, President of Federazione Italiana Rugby (FIR), said: "I am very pleased that, after months of intense negotiations, an agreement that will see two Italian teams join the Magners League at the start of next season has been reached.

"I would like to thank the Board of Celtic Rugby, in particular President John Hussey and Director David Jordan, for the support given in recent months.
"At the same time, I would like to thank Amerino Zatta, the President of Benetton Treviso, and Silvano Melegari, President of Aironi Rugby, who supported me throughout the negotiation period.

"I am sure that the Magners League will bring benefits to all Italian rugby and will have a positive impact on the competitiveness of our national team."[/b]

[/url]

 

[Bullitt]

So those teams finishing 11th and 12th instantly qualify for the HEC... Right.

On a sensible note, If the Celtic lot actually take it seriously and send a few of their Heineken cup squads to away matches instead of the kids, this could be good for Italian rugby.

If not, the sport over there is dead.

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bullitt @ Mar 8 2010, 05:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

On a sensible note, If the Celtic lot actually take it seriously and send a few of their Heineken cup squads to away matches instead of the kids, this could be good for Italian rugby.[/b]

That would be my primary concern. With each team now playing 22 games rather than 18, it'll lead to more squad rotation. Great news for fringe members of squads but it will dilute the amount of times a full 1st XV takes the field. That said, I think this is a fantastic short term move. Italy need their players playing in a more competitive environment if the national team is to progress. The ML provides this.

What happens down the line if Italy's results improve dramatically though? Two pro teams for a country with a population of 70 million (give or take) won't be enough. The ML won't have scope to expand. France and England won't be happy with 12/14 members of the ML qualifying for the Heineken Cup and will want increased representation. I've said it in the past and I firmly believe it's the case - Italian entry into the ML is the first step towards an expanded Heineken Cup of 32 teams and down the line a pan-European league of 40+ teams.

 

[monkeypigeon]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (snoopy snoopy dog dog @ Mar 8 2010, 05:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bullitt @ Mar 8 2010, 05:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

On a sensible note, If the Celtic lot actually take it seriously and send a few of their Heineken cup squads to away matches instead of the kids, this could be good for Italian rugby.[/b]

That would be my primary concern. With each team now playing 22 games rather than 18, it'll lead to more squad rotation. Great news for fringe members of squads but it will dilute the amount of times a full 1st XV takes the field. That said, I think this is a fantastic short term move. Italy need their players playing in a more competitive environment if the national team is to progress. The ML provides this.

What happens down the line if Italy's results improve dramatically though? Two pro teams for a country with a population of 70 million (give or take) won't be enough. The ML won't have scope to expand. France and England won't be happy with 12/14 members of the ML qualifying for the Heineken Cup and will want increased representation. I've said it in the past and I firmly believe it's the case - Italian entry into the ML is the first step towards an expanded Heineken Cup of 32 teams and down the line a pan-European league of 40+ teams.
[/b][/quote]

Presuming Connacht will be there by the time your super fantasy Italian Boom with the emergence of enough players for another couple of teams. they could split it into two divisions of 7 with an end of year playoff between the top four teams from each.

Let the loser teams go off and make money doing exhitbition games in Romania and Russia.

We could call it the Magners Super Duper Cup + League + End of year Emerging countries money maker thing.



The Pan European league is mental. French would never agree to it and the traveling expenses would be too high.

Edit: That's not to say the Magners Super Duper Cup + League + End of year Emerging countries money maker thing - isn't slightly unrealistic either.

 

[Bullitt]

That's the long-term shortfall of the eliteism in the sport: Not enough backbone to support the weight when things get too big. A full-on Euro-league will never work.

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Monkeypigeon @ Mar 8 2010, 06:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

The Pan European league is mental. French would never agree to it and the traveling expenses would be too high.[/b]

The French have gone from a Top 16 split in two pools of 8, to a Top 16 playing home and away, to a Top 14 with 4 teams making the playoffs, to a Top 14 with 6 teams in the playoffs over the last decade. The bigger clubs want the league to reduce in size to 12. They aren't afraid to change. Give them a role in the administration of the league and even play for the Bouclier de Brunnus if it pushes the league through.

Money talks; if a European League is financially viable it'll happen. Ask Sky, Canal Plus, ESPN or another channel if they'd like to have the rights to all the games involving all the top clubs in Europe. They'd snap your hand off and pay serious money for it. Before their demise, Setanta were rumoured to have approached the IRFU, FFR and RFU about setting up a large European tournament (it was around the time the French were "expelled" from the H Cup). The wheels are already set in motion.

That argument is for another thread though. For now it's brilliant that Italy are being given a helping hand in improving their ranking internationally. Let's see if the same is done for Georgia, Russia, Romania and Portugal in the next few years.

 

[Fa'atau82]

In an ideal world and in my eyes, the Heineken Cup would be a 3 division tournament, and regional representative teams from 2nd tier nations in the 3rd division. The first season, the top 4 from ML, GP and Top14 form the top division. So, the 12 'best' teams in Europe playout in 2 groups of 6, the top team in each group goes into the a H-Cup Final. Winner of that plays equivalent winner of the more or less equal, Div 2.

So, as it stands..

ML - Leinster, Edinburgh, Ospreys, Glasgow.
GP - Leicester, Northampton, Saracens, Wasps.
Top14 - Castres, Clermont, Perpignan, Toulouse.

The 2nd division would be the 4th, 5th and 6th teams from the ML (assuming Treviso/Aironi wasn't in the top 6), GP and Top14. That's 9. Plus the highest Italian ML team/or Connacht if Treviso/Aironi was in top 6 to make 10. Again, two groups - of 6 for a total of 12 with the 2 bonus regions. Top two teams into the final. Winner then faces winner of Div 1 in a Grand Final. Winner of that, gains auto passage ranked #1 seed in Div 1 for next season.

So, as it stands..

ML - Munster, Dragons, Ulster, Treviso.
GP - London Irish, Bath, Gloucester.
Top14 - Toulon, Racing Metro, Stade Francais.
+ 2 bonus regions from Div 3.

The 3rd division would be the regional teams of Russia, Spain, Portugal, Georgia, Romania and the 6th team in Fira AER or ENC (Germany), who would play a brief home or away pre-H-Cup round-robin tournament of which the top two qualify for the 2nd division to make 12.

.. Or something.

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

^^^^ Good post. The qualm I'd have with it is that splitting the league on a tiered, promotion/relegation basis would lead to no interest in the lower divisions and a gap emerging between the top 12 or so team and the teams in the lower leagues. My idea for a European league takes a different form.

I'd see a 40 team league - the FFR gets 14 spots to distribute how they wish (probably to the Top 14 teams), likewise the RFU gets 12, the Magners League gets 12 and the other 2 "franchises" are handed out to on a strategic basis. Ideally this would be to "emerging" nations like a team from Russia and Germany for example i.e. teams go to big markets.

A 22 game regular season where each club plays selected teams. There's no promotion and relegation, rather all teams play in the same tier like the NFL, MLB, NHL or NBA. Preserve rivalries so that, for example, Northampton play Leicester, Leinster play Ulster and Munster and Toulouse play Stade Francais home and away every season (again, like the American sports model). Follow this with a 16 team playoffs leading to the championship game.

Player burnout is eliminated. Fixture congestion is eliminated. TV revenue skyrockets due to there being one champion rather than a host of champions as is the case presently (ML winners, GP winners, LV Cup winners, Top 14 winner, HC winners etc). Lesser nations get competitive club rugby and there's scope to expand. Fans, players and TV win.

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

Back on topic, the IRFU's reaction:
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>

http://www.irishrugby.ie/53_19985.php

The two sides, Benetton Treviso and Aironi Rugby, will bring the number of teams in the competition to 12, creating a stronger cross-border competition.

Commenting on the announcement, Irish Rugby Football Union Chief Executive Philip Browne said: "The inclusion of the two Italian sides for next season can only strengthen the competition into the future. "The Magners League has continually grown year on year in terms of attendances, viewership and standards during its lifetime and the news today certainly continues this progression.

"Ultimately what is good for the Magners League will be good for European rugby and also for the international game by bringing Italian rugby into the competition."[/b]

 

[shazbooger]

Great news for all rugby fans.

 

[Prestwick]

This is a huge boost for Italian rugby. Just having some kind of regular top flight rugby will benefit the Italians. Even if Munster or the Ospreys send their 2nd teams, they're still good enough to pose a huge challenge to the Italians.

After seeing for myself the huge amount of investment that has gone into Viadana's Stadium including a large brand new south stand and physio center, I'm just glad that none of that money has been wasted.

They've hit the big time now. Somewhere up there are a bunch of Italian guys who took to a random playing field back in the 1900s who are looking down and grinning with pride

 

[Rocket Singh]

Just wondering this but how many guys from Munster, Leinster, Ospreys, etc are considering following their teams to Italy for their away games next season?

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

It's something I'll definitely consider. Generally the only ML away games I go to see are when Leinster travel to play Munster, Ulster and Connacht. I try to do a couple of Heineken Cup away trips per season too. Playing away in Italy in the ML is a far more attractive proposition than going to Wales or Scotland in a 2/3 empty stadium.

 

[Rocket Singh]

To be honest, Treviso is your best bet as its much easier to get to. Arioni will be playing most of their games in Viadana which is a pig to get to although basing yourself in Parma is not a bad thing as it is a superb city.

Once you get to Viadana though you'll find the ground no problem and its a lovely ground. The clubhouse is like a ski chalet and they usually serve really nice local lamb shank with Guinness and London Pride on tap.

Can't give any information about Treviso but if any of you guys are going to see Arioni in Viadana give me a shout and I'll give you some advice for bars and so on.

 

[feicarsinn]

I'll be in first year college next year (with any luck) and will be game for pretty much anything. A trip to northern Italy wouldn't go amiss.

 

[munstermuffin]

Been to alot of away games (Best ever been away vs Gloucester in QF '08)

But have already decided I'll go to the Treviso away game next year and maybe consider Viadanna the following.
I usually go to Wales and Scotland once each and all the away games in Ireland.

Also wonder will our season ticket price rise with the 2 extra games at home

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (munstermuffin @ Mar 12 2010, 07:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Also wonder will our season ticket price rise with the 2 extra games at home [/b]

A bit off topic but how do Munster season tickets work? Can you get a ticket for just the Cork or Limerick games?

 

[munstermuffin]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (snoopy snoopy dog dog @ Mar 12 2010, 07:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (munstermuffin @ Mar 12 2010, 07:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Also wonder will our season ticket price rise with the 2 extra games at home [/b]

A bit off topic but how do Munster season tickets work? Can you get a ticket for just the Cork or Limerick games?
[/b][/quote]
Well I have full season ticket which covers all H'Cup, ML and B&I cup games in Cork and Limerick.
But I know you can buy a season ticket (6ML Games only) for Thomond.
I not 100% sure if Musgrave have the same system but I really do like it.

It just very convenient and save alot of hassle and in fairness to Munster despite all the building (courtesty of Adidas ) they have not made much change to ticket prices and they are reasonable.
What is system with Leinster Snoop because I seen some QF tickets advertised a few week back for game vs Clermont and was amazed.
In Munster you'd be lucky to get ticket if you not a member of a club or supporters group never mind them been made for sale to public.

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

Tickets were only sold to season ticket holders for this game. I've a spot in the Grandstand (camera side of the pitch).

If any were on sale, they're probably returns from Clermont.

 

[munstermuffin]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (snoopy snoopy dog dog @ Mar 12 2010, 07:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Tickets were only sold to season ticket holders for this game. I've a spot in the Grandstand (camera side of the pitch).

If any were on sale, they're probably returns from Clermont.[/b]

Oh right was wondering as it unusual for such a big game.

Yeah same with me I've same spot in Thomond the west terrace (side teams enter pitch)
Really think though Leinster made wise move leaving Donnybrook as commercially they've progressed and grown alot since.