Lions tour dates are out

[Draggs]

I've seen reports saying him and BOD should be in the starting test team

Wwwwhhhhhhaaaaaaaaatttt??

I know Shaw toured when he was 63, but come on....

Lulz. I'd like to see that. Regardless of what happens over the next two years, I guarantee that a number of people will call for O'Connell and O'Driscoll in the squad. Simon Shaw could tour in 2013, of course.

 

[psychic duck]

The true test is whether a player from Scotland, Ireland, Wales or England could make the starting XV of all three other unions. Now, in my eyes, Gray would pair up with O´Connell for Ireland, Lawes for England and Wyn Jones for Wales. Evans would pair up with Bowe for Ireland, Ashton for England and North for Wales. I´d think these are the contenders and there is no chance two are better than Gray. 2 years to go mind you..... Sure, its my opinion and I know many don´t rate Max Evans so highly. If the guy were not Scottish he´d be rated higher. He´s the victim of having a defensive game plan and, too often, Dan Parks at flyhalf. Vs Los Pumas, in dreadful rain, Evans really moved about and had he had Priestland, Hook or O´Gara at pivot he would have some serious damage. Scotland´s game plan is not so complicated to defend against. I am nto kidding when I saw that I saw Luciano Orquera moving about far more to feed his runners and danger man in the World Cup.

Gray will, in no time, be spoken of as the Parisse or Clever of Scotland. I watched him in the stadium at non-stop for 60 minutes and the guy is really good. Something that sux about tv is the limited viewing as in person you can watch the player so much better - Gray has gas.... as we say in Brazilian Portuguese. Wyn-Jones, O´Connell are into their 30´s. I´d be surprized if Richie is not starting every international match for the Lions. Many players look good because of their team - so many players have looked good at the Crusaders. The lattest being Robbie Fruean - just aweful for the Barbarians. If Gray played for Munster, Clermont or the Warratahs he´d be considered better just bacause of his team. It works this way... sadly.

About point two... thats the way it should be. Unless we are talking about players who moved when they were children. Seeing Maori´s who went to England in their 20´s play for the Lions is utterly wrong. Its like getting France to wear kilts and Argentina to do the haka. The Lions are damaged by having these mercenaries and how they can even be there is just bizzare considering it is the power of four.

I agree that Gray is one of the two best locks in the UK, but there is lots of competition as I rate O'Connell, AWJ and Lawes as well, but don't say Charteris is in the league of the names mentioned he's been poor to average his entire career until the World Cup, I would be surprised if he's still in the side by the end of 2012 ahead of Ian Evans or Bradley Davies

I think Evans is a good player, but there are lots of good wingers at the minute in the Lions nations such as North, Visser, Bowe, Ashton and also Earls plus Fitzgerald will rediscover his form at some point and there are a few good young English wingers too such as Wade and Sharples, it won't be easy for him to make it

regarding teams standard dragging players perceived skill down, of course it is true, nobody mentioned Gorgodze until Montpellier became good despite he has been making good gain line carries since 2007

I agree even more so about teams making players seem better than they really are, especially in the backs

look at Ben Cohen, he was truely woeful after England stopped being good

Rico Gear failed miserably at Worcester deespite being on the end of loads of Crusaders tries

 

[Draggs]

Ian Evans needs to put in performances beyond decent for the Ospreys and Wales. I understand his injury has almost wrecked his promising career, but since he has been back he is a penalty machine. I truly hope he returns to where he was in 2008. As far as Charteris goes, I don't see what his past form has to do with him now. He was the best second row in the World Cup, and put in truly outstanding performances. Bradley Davies was excellent in 2010 and early 2011, but his performances seem to have lessened somewhat. Charteris and AWJ were rightly first choice throughout the World Cup.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

He was the best second row in the World Cup, and put in truly outstanding performances.

Really?
I can remember Charteris being all right, and Welsh fans/media loving him, but don't think he was that great.
Maybe it's just in comparison to the rest of his career that he looked so good?

 

[Draggs]

Really?
I can remember Charteris being all right, and Welsh fans/media loving him, but don't think he was that great.
Maybe it's just in comparison to the rest of his career that he looked so good?

Eh, perhaps. Maybe it was just the way he fit into our forwards and the way they played. He was a strong defender and hit every ruck.
Shame we won't get another look during the Six Nations.

 

[McTallshort]

I have always rated Charteris, he has a good engine and great work rate. Remember watching Dragons play Ulster once on Scrum 5 and Dragons came from behind to win and Charteris was man of the match by a mile. I really dont agree with anyone who said his form was poor before the WC. They obviously have never watched him play for the Dragons.

 

[psychic duck]

Really?
I can remember Charteris being all right, and Welsh fans/media loving him, but don't think he was that great.
Maybe it's just in comparison to the rest of his career that he looked so good?

exactly, second best lock is an exaggeration

I have always rated Charteris, he has a good engine and great work rate. Remember watching Dragons play Ulster once on Scrum 5 and Dragons came from behind to win and Charteris was man of the match by a mile. I really dont agree with anyone who said his form was poor before the WC. They obviously have never watched him play for the Dragons.

as TRF_Olyy says he was all right at the RWC, but before that he was pants, never used his size to the effect you would expect him too, I remember him being involved in some awful lineout displays in the red jersey in the past (Australia 2009 and England 2010), when he was first selected for Wales it was purely due to his size, only recently has he truely deserved to start

 

[McTallshort]

Before the world cup he was pants? the same could be levelled most of the Welsh team

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Not really, considering they were all playing well for their regions

Anyone would think you didn't like the Welsh

 

[McTallshort]

Chartais was playing well for his region and has done consistantly for a few seasons. The examples given were when playing for Wales and given how well Wales have played for the last 2 seasons leading up to the WC you cannot say he was the only pants player. Sorry but I am a big fan of his and think he deserves more credit than he gets.