Life after Eddie …

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

MSN

RFU paying £1 million to Leicester after Tigers got Borthwick to sign a 3 year deal after the prem win which was kept secret.
Sinfield to succeed Borthwick
Walters to stay at Tigers.

Crazy money for one coach that is only in his 3rd year Head coaching

Really hope he gets some good support coaches in there to help him.

 

[Welsh Exile]

MSN

RFU paying £1 million to Leicester after Tigers got Borthwick to sign a 3 year deal after the prem win which was kept secret.
Sinfield to succeed Borthwick
Walters to stay at Tigers.

Crazy money for one coach that is only in his 3rd year Head coaching

Agree. Honestly, what is going through the RFU's mind here (and the WRU) when Robertson is gettable. I'd imagine you wouldn't even come close to paying a quarter of that for him. Mad.

 

[Booboobang]

Really hope he gets some good support coaches in there to help him.

This is what worries me more than anything else. Borthwick can obviously coach, but the importance of walters was highlighted in that ***le winning campaign, and the tigers just looked bigger and stronger.

Sinfield is ehhhh, defense was solid ***le year but has fallen of a cliff.

Hope they can somehow add walters and get someone like vesty in to coach the attack.

 

[Booboobang]

It's the great Eddie paradox, he is simultaneously accused of not trying enough people and trying too many. As pointed out, he had has favourites, who walked in regardless of form and health. They were completely untouchable. You then had everyone else who could get maybe 5 games tops and then be dropped never to be heard from again. It's the worst of both worlds. We've now got a team whose core have tons of caps but are in poor international form and a fringe of players really struggling to make the squad as they will be dropped even if they outperform the incumbent.

I think this highlights to me the issue in international coaching regardless of who it is. Coaches at international level should have a shelf life, most of the issues all face is avoided when we have a limit of one or two WC cycles. The favorites thing isn't as much of an issue, and things are kept fresh; if the new guy isn't working, you can change him out the next cycle.

Southgate also highlighted this in football, where it holds back a team.

I know some might disagree, but international coaching has moved on, and it takes a special kind of coach to manage the turnover between cycles while being ruthless and still keeping a team's morale high. Its so rare, I would argue it is chasing a white rhino.

 

[Umaga's Witness]

England captain Owen Farrell has said Eddie Jones was one of the best coaches he ever worked with and described his sacking as "unbelievably disappointing."

[Aka he won't be captain anymore]

Farrell said the impetus to replace Jones had not come from the players.

"I don't think it has come from the players," he added. "There is obviously stuff we all want to get better at from the results but as players you look at yourself and see what you can do."

 

[Reiser99]

Wow, seems like Tigers and Borthwick set the RFU up. Honestly, what are they thinking? He's not that good and still unproven as a head coach.

 

[ncurd]

No idea what the RFU are playing at he isn't worth that kind of money.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Don't blame Tigers one bit, get that bread or keep the coach that won you the league/is building the squad that he wants. Win/win for them.

Do blame the RFU cause really that's about as much time as Borthwick needs at club level to see what kind of coach he is/if last season was a fluke

If the RFU go through with it then they're nuts, they need to take it as a sign that it's not meant to be yet

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

England captain Owen Farrell has said Eddie Jones was one of the best coaches he ever worked with and described his sacking as "unbelievably disappointing."

[Aka he won't be captain anymore]

Farrell said the impetus to replace Jones had not come from the players.

"I don't think it has come from the players," he added. "There is obviously stuff we all want to get better at from the results but as players you look at yourself and see what you can do."

Farrell's not exactly got a long list of head coaches to choose from - virtually his whole Sarries career has been under McCall and with Eng just Lancaster and Jones. A little bit of Gatland with BIL too, but you can't really compare that.

Watson and Ludlam have also publicly said the sacking was disappointing, but it's not exactly been a groundswell. And player voices seem to have been a pretty big factor in the secret squirrel review.

 

[McTallshort]

No idea what the RFU are playing at he isn't worth that kind of money.

Also it means less money for Red Roses, grass roots etc. RFU have made a mess if this.

 

[ncurd]

Also it means less money for Red Roses, grass roots etc. RFU have made a mess if this.

Exactly, I get Borthwick they've decided is their guy but they've paid a fortune to EJ and now a ridiculous amount to Tigers.

Sacking EJ was the correct unsure what they are playing at now.

 

[General Melchett]

A spectacular failure in leadership at the RFU. Whoever oversaw all this has had a mare.

They would have been better off making Conor O'Shea interim HC and then going all out for Robertson or Jamie Joseph after the RWC. Borthwick has very little track record as it is and it's a hell of a gamble hoping he can do the business at test level without his trusted assistants.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

RFU whole way of operating seems to just be a series of expensive knee jerk reactions.

 

[Which Tyler]

MSN

RFU paying £1 million to Leicester after Tigers got Borthwick to sign a 3 year deal after the prem win which was kept secret.
Sinfield to succeed Borthwick
Walters to stay at Tigers.

Crazy money for one coach that is only in his 3rd year Head coaching

He's simply not worth it.
You'd be able to get Robertson's release fee + a full year of salary for just the release fee for Borthwick - and that's assuming Leicester accept the offer, rather than digging their heels if for the bigger.
If you're going to spend the demanded fee, you could probably afford Robertson's release fee, Robertson's salary for a year AND dangle a big enough carrot in front of Wayne Smith to come over for 1 year.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

He's simply not worth it.
You'd be able to get Robertson's release fee + a full year of salary for just the release fee for Borthwick - and that's assuming Leicester accept the offer, rather than digging their heels if for the bigger.
If you're going to spend the demanded fee, you could probably afford Robertson's release fee, Robertson's salary for a year AND dangle a big enough carrot in front of Wayne Smith to come over for 1 year.

Maybe those conversations with Robertson happened. Maybe he ruled himself out as he's been warmed up for the ABs. We just don't know.

Assuming Borthwick gets the gig It's going to be interesting to find out whether he has genuinely been the first choice all along, who else was considered, why they were ruled out and when.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

RFU whole way of operating seems to just be a series of expensive knee jerk reactions.

The knee jerk wasn't sacking Jones, but extending his contract and for so long. That's the real reason we're in this mess.

 

[Crash Hamster]

Isuppose we shouldn't be surprised that the RFU have lived up tot hte second two initials of their name yet again, but how hard would it have been to have had Steve Diamond* lined up as interim head coach?

*Or whoever**

** but seriously Steve DIamond.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Wonder if we actually will end up with Cockerill until the RWC now, see who's available afterwards


Not for the HC gig but wonder if Worsley is on the radar - currently defence coach with Georgia after coaching in the Top 14 for the last however many years

 

[LIONSxv]

I could understand paying a million for an experienced, winning international coach. But a million for a guy who has done a couple of seasons at head coach at club level ?
Surely Edwards would be a cheaper/better option even factoring in his extension with Fra. I would think he will will have a clause in his contract if a head coach job came up ?
If the RFU aren't bothered about international experience then the best club coach is Robertson.
Is borthwick that good that seemingly the RFU will pay whatever it takes ? Seems very bizzare

 

[ncurd]

I could understand paying a million for an experienced, winning international coach. But a million for a guy who has done a couple of seasons at head coach at club level ?
Surely Edwards would be a cheaper/better option even factoring in his extension with Fra. I would think he will will have a clause in his contract if a head coach job came up ?
If the RFU aren't bothered about international experience then the best club coach is Robertson.
Is borthwick that good that seemingly the RFU will pay whatever it takes ? Seems very bizzare

I mean who is out there who could be worth that kind of dough? Rassie (I don't want him, he's too toxic)?

Not in the currently climate of English Rugby your looking at it as a 5 year job not 1.