Life after Eddie …

[Crash Hamster]

Personally whoever comes in needs to give the players some freedom. I've said it before one of Jones's biggest lies was saying he wanted the team to play heads up rugby and then proceeded to kill any thought of heads up rugby in them and get them playing safe, percentage, risk-free rugby.

I think the problem was that he tried to coach them, in minute and forensic detail, to play heads up rugby.

Jones seemed to define HUR as 'If it's the second Saturday of the month and the opposition winger is more than 10 yards out of position, assuming he's not over 6'2, as long as the fullback is over 110kg and the blindside has fewer than 17 caps including today, then run move 27a, subsection iii, unless the wind is from the NE in whch case subsection iv' whereas most people would say 'play what you see, you're the best in England.'

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Speaking of severance packages

Monster pay-out being nutted out for Jones axing

As England prepares to pull trigger on star coach

wwos.nine.com.au

Jones will reportedly receive a pay out of more than $1 million, with a termination agreement being nutted out.

 

[Groundhog]

Not sure which paper it's in but I've just seen excerpts from an article and it says that he's completely lost the changing room and that's why he's gone - senior players had raised concerns about the way he treats staff and fringe players, including one time where he berated Max Malins so much that he cried and then dropped him from the squad

Edit
The Times:

archive.ph

The other coaches have also been pulled in for reviews - wonder if that means Proudfoot is gone too. Our scrum has gone backwards over the past few seasons (both metaphorically and literally)

I saw that. I think at a point if that's how the sausage is being made, there's something deeply wrong even if you are getting results. Players shouldn't come into international camp dreading playing for their country and no one should be reduced to tears by a superior in what we have to remember is a workplace.

 

[Jimbo]

We are still left with the same issues Eddie had.

Can we get Sinckler back to his best? And who is back up?
Who are the Starting locks?? Itoje isnt at his best..and needs a nuts and bolts lock beside him. Is that Ribbans...finally?
Who else is there...Chessum, Tizzard??

Whats happening at 6? Is it a lock / hybrid...or an actual flanker...
Coles/ Lawes v Jack Willis - or even better...Ted HIll

Whats happening at 8. Is this dependant on the 6 option. or do we finally pick a player who can pretty much all...ie Dombrandt.

12 - Farrell or another. But who is the Another?? We dont have one outstanding...and Dan Kelly is always injured

Wings - Please pick some of the young lads playing so well in the prem.

IC defiantly an issue with no stand outs, who haven't had injury issues, if we want a change of guard and probably need someone to stand in should Farrell get injured regardless, I think Alex lozowski could do a job and is actually a threat, this is as a short suggestion and whist bedding in some of the youngsters, I am not averse Kelly but I would hate for him to be rushed into an under performing squad and to have a negative future impact on his international career so would probably like to preserve major involvement until post WC, I fail to see how Jack Willis can not be a big part of fit, the amount of influential steals and general key moments he has for Wasps was unreal, imagine Currys, Willis and Dombrant, props remains an issue but fixing sinks goes a fair way, it's easy to say the issues Jones had remains but many are of his own doing, instead of experimenting with stand out players in their actual positions he rather fanny about experimenting with two or more players from other positions with little to choose between them.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

IC defiantly an issue with no stand outs, who haven't had injury issues, if we want a change of guard and probably need someone to stand in should Farrell get injured regardless, I think Alex lozowski could do a job and is actually a threat, this is as a short suggestion and whist bedding in some of the youngsters, I am not averse Kelly but I would hate for him to be rushed into an under performing squad and to have a negative future impact on his international career so would probably like to preserve major involvement until post WC, I fail to see how Jack Willis can not be a big part of fit, the amount of influential steals and general key moments he has for Wasps was unreal, imagine Currys, Willis and Dombrant, props remains an issue but fixing sinks goes a fair way, it's easy to say the issues Jones had remains but many are of his own doing, instead of experimenting with stand out players in their actual positions he rather fanny about experimenting with two or more players from other positions with little to choose between them.

I think this is a big problem with the justification of seeing if players can hack it if they need to move about due to injuries. That's fine once you have a settled team but it's not fine when you still need to remove dead wood. Just like England trying to run complex attacking structures when the basics are a mess, experimenting for very specific circumstances should be done after the positions are pretty much sorted, now at the expense of getting them sorted.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Doing an Eddie and focusing on the RWC…..

We're great at bandying around new player X or Y. But by now this should pretty much all be settled as should tactics - this should be polishing time. Take Jack Willis - I'm a massive fan but he's had something like 90 mins over 6 caps over 3 years. Injury played its part but we don't really know if he can cut it personally at this level let alone gel with Curry and whoever's at 8. Would JVP gel better with Binny than Dombrandt who has an instinctive relationship with Smith etc.

We have a new head coach. We definitely have a new defence coach, I'd be gobsmacked if we don't have a new attack coach and tbh we're probably looking at an entire new coaching team. New ideas and new relationships take time to bed in (oh for someone like Eddie Jones for a short term fix, what's he up to these days?). Train as much as you like but combinations and tactics only get properly stress tested in the white heat of battle.

We have 5 competitive fixtures before the RWC - just 400 minutes. The new coach hasn't got the luxury of experimenting. He'll pretty much have to pick his men at outset and stick with them, using the games to bed in his way as best he can. With a couple of exceptions I'd be surprised if the team differed greatly from Jones first choice - it's more about getting a tune out of them…..individually and collectively.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Youngs is still first choice at Tigers, isn't he?
Gotta presume he's gonna be first choice for England going into the RWC in that case

 

[BPM]

IC defiantly an issue with no stand outs, who haven't had injury issues, if we want a change of guard and probably need someone to stand in should Farrell get injured regardless, I think Alex lozowski could do a job and is actually a threat, this is as a short suggestion and whist bedding in some of the youngsters, I am not averse Kelly but I would hate for him to be rushed into an under performing squad and to have a negative future impact on his international career so would probably like to preserve major involvement until post WC, I fail to see how Jack Willis can not be a big part of fit, the amount of influential steals and general key moments he has for Wasps was unreal, imagine Currys, Willis and Dombrant, props remains an issue but fixing sinks goes a fair way, it's easy to say the issues Jones had remains but many are of his own doing, instead of experimenting with stand out players in their actual positions he rather fanny about experimenting with two or more players from other positions with little to choose between them.

12 is definitely and defiantly a problem.

If the new man is indeed Borthwick, he'll have a very good idea whether Kelly is up to it or not. Given that he's been his first choice 12, the evidence suggests he rates him so I wouldn't be at all surprised to see him in the mix.

Not sure about Lozowski. I agree he 'can do a job', but it feels like that's a fairly low bar for a test centre. Then again, you might say the same about Farrell …

I really hope Willis will get more of an opportunity. Even with the injury absences, it's mad to think how little he's been used to date. Borthwick likes Martin, so I could see him or Hill also being in contention.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I really hope Willis will get more of an opportunity.

I know that the RFU have said he's still available, playing in France, but I think that that'll have a negative effect on his chances - missing two(? three?) weeks of camp during the 6N won't help him break into the team

 

[Jimbo]

12 is definitely and defiantly a problem.

If the new man is indeed Borthwick, he'll have a very good idea whether Kelly is up to it or not. Given that he's been his first choice 12, the evidence suggests he rates him so I wouldn't be at all surprised to see him in the mix.

Not sure about Lozowski. I agree he 'can do a job', but it feels like that's a fairly low bar for a test centre. Then again, you might say the same about Farrell …

I really hope Willis will get more of an opportunity. Even with the injury absences, it's mad to think how little he's been used to date. Borthwick likes Martin, so I could see him or Hill also being in contention.

Aye the bar at 12 is defiantly low I think Kelly is the future, guess the question here really is do we Chuck him in now and hope for the best both in terms of the WC coming up and if it goes badly the backlash does not affect him going forward or do we go with someone who can probably do a better job than Faz for now (assuming he stays fit) and if it all goes wrong it gets us through the WC and a chance to rebuilt for the future without breaking the players of the futures confidence, personally I think I would favour a short term head coach appointment and them to do the best at fixing the key positions whilst keeping the less problematic elements of the squad as are and saying have a go, then post WC a new head coach and something of a overhaul of most of it, some players may also see this as a last opportunity to make a mark on the international stage and play to their best.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

If Dan Kelly had ambition he'd wait a year and a half and play for Ireland.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

archive.ph

TLDR
Tigers want £2 million for Borthwick, Sinfield and Walters to be released early.

RFU getting nervy over the money.

 

[Jimbo]

archive.ph

TLDR
Tigers want £2 million for Borthwick, Sinfield and Walters to be released early.

RFU getting nervy over the money.

Greedy ****** on the grounds that they have cheated in the premiership and not really paid the price they should heavily reduce that…

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

archive.ph

TLDR
Tigers want £2 million for Borthwick, Sinfield and Walters to be released early.

RFU getting nervy over the money.

Oh well, shame.

Scott Robertson it is

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Greedy ****** on the grounds that they have cheated in the premiership and not really paid the price they should heavily reduce that…

They got fined according to the rules though.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Also Interesting RFU had lined up Borthwick to join them in May regardless with Eddie Jones and then take over fully post RWC.
Instead looking now at potentially £3 million + bill for 5 6N's games....

 

[TRF_Olyy]

That's a crazy amount of money, no way they could afford that

Genuinely might end up with Dimes involved until the end of the RWC - I mean who else is free?

Dick Cock n Dimes take on RWC23 - the media interviews will be next level

 

[Jimbo]

They got fined according to the rules though.

It was tongue in cheek but lets remember sarries got relegated (to the best of my knowledge there was no direct rules or precedence in play for this) this enabled Tigers to avoid relegation for finishing bottom whilst doing the same thing Sarries did but to a lesser extent and being entirely poor whilst doing it, I don't see the situation quite as binary as they got fined accordingly and to the rules.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

archive.ph

TLDR
Tigers want £2 million for Borthwick, Sinfield and Walters to be released early.

RFU getting nervy over the money.

how long as that team been at Tigers? if Borthwick has been earmarked for a while you would have thought he would have an exit clause for an international job as Robo apparently does

 

[Aristodemus]

I hope tigers are greedy and it forces us to go for Robertson, he is very clearly the standout coach to pick from.