Leeds Carnegie rebrand themselves as "Yorkshire Carnegie"

[ratsapprentice]

Statement on creation of new rugby union club as Yorkshire Carnegie replace Leeds Carnegie for next season:

McGeechan launches new vision for Rugby Union in Yorkshire

Sir Ian McGeechan has revealed a new vision for professional Rugby Union in Yorkshire with the announcement of a new club to spearhead the game at the elite level and allow the county to realise its potential as a powerhouse for the game in England and Europe.

Following discussions with the Yorkshire RFU and clubs across the county, McGeechan has unveiled the plan to create Yorkshire Carnegie from the 2014-15 season to replace the existing Leeds Carnegie club. The team will play at Headingley Carnegie Stadium to meet minimum Premiership standards but with the intention to create a side to represent Yorkshire at the highest level and create an integrated Yorkshire wide system.

To achieve that goal, McGeechan is appealing for a broad base of financial support from across Yorkshire from people with a real interest in enhancing Yorkshire Rugby Union's legacy that dates back to 1876 with the formation of the Yorkshire RFU.

Commenting on the announcement McGeechan said, “Since the game went professional in 1995, benevolent individuals at clubs like Leeds, Rotherham and Doncaster have pumped millions of pounds of their own money into trying to make professional Rugby Union a success in Yorkshire. Undoubtedly the player pool within the county is as strong as ever with the fantastic work being done at junior and school levels. We have successfully created an Academy structure that benefits all clubs across the county and the time is right now to spread that philosophy to the senior structure. We now face a crossroads if we are able to create a sustainable future for the professional side of the game.â€

Recently Luther Burrell became the 134th Yorkshireman to play for England, which represents around 10% of all players who have played for England since the first ever international. England Head Coach Stuart Lancaster has given his support to the new venture, as have the Yorkshire RFU. In 2015, Yorkshire will host two games in the Rugby World Cup at Elland Road giving a perfect showcase for the game in the county.

The new club will be in a strong position with a 20,000 capacity stadium, all existing players and staff from Leeds Carnegie as well as benefiting from all the existing sponsorship and income streams that currently go to Leeds Carnegie, including the club’s partnership with Leeds Metropolitan University.

Leeds Rugby Chief Executive Gary Hetherington added, “Leeds Carnegie, Rotherham and Doncaster have all tried to create a winning team on the field to gain and retain a place in the Premiership. Clearly, by leveraging talent and support across Yorkshire that gives us the best chance possible of succeeding. The Leeds Academy has long been recognised as the best in the country and that is clearly demonstrated by the success of players such as Danny Care, Calum Clark, Rob Webber and most recently Luther Burrell. These players are the latest in a long history of world class players from Yorkshire that includes the likes Sir Ian McGeechan, John Spencer, Mike Tindall and Rob Andrew. This year marks the 150thanniversary of rugby being played in Leeds for the first time which presents a timely opportunity for us to examine a way forward for the game.

“The business model for professional Rugby Union has changed dramatically over the last decade and now we must forge a new way to give Yorkshire the chance to succeed. Rather than relying on the generosity of a handful of benefactors we now want to create a group to control the Yorkshire franchise and allow the club to challenge the best in England and Europe,†added Hetherington.

Leeds Rugby Chairman Paul Caddick added, “Like myself, Ian McGeechan is passionate about Yorkshire Rugby. Since his return to the club he has persuaded the board that in order for us to not just return to the Premiership but compete, we must be in a stronger position. At Leeds we managed to compete for five consecutive seasons in the Premiership but the game has changed at that level and it needs further investment to thrive at the top.

“For many years I have invested a great deal of time, commitment and effort to create a team that the whole county can be proud of and I am happy to continue my involvement if the new board wish me to. Sir Ian McGeechan’s vision is one that deserves support by all who care about the game in the county and it has my full backing.â€

McGeechan concluded, “The only way we can fulfil this vision is to bring together all interested parties and create a new board to enable Yorkshire Carnegie to have the resources to compete with the very best. I would ask anyone who would consider investment and sponsorship to contact me personally at [email protected] I can discuss the level of commitment required to take the project forward.â€

Discuss.

 

[SelimNiai]

Poor Rotherham

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Yeah, what the hell?

I guess I can get it as they want to increase fan base, get more people involved etc. but they ain't the only Yorkshire club in their league....

 

[ratsapprentice]

Doesn't stop the "London" clubs...

Will be interesting to see how this goes.
In my opinion having strong Tyke and Cornish clubs in the premiership is of utmost importance.

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

Leeds Rugby Chief Executive Gary Hetherington added, "Leeds Carnegie, Rotherham and Doncaster have all tried to create a winning team on the field to gain and retain a place in the Premiership. Clearly, by leveraging talent and support across Yorkshire that gives us the best chance possible of succeeding.

It sounds to me as though Gary Hetherington is floating the idea of a merger.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Yeah, the North really is a hotbed of development for players - you look at the amount of players who have played for England who are from up north, it's mental*.
The (professional) club scene really doesn't reflect that, so it's good to see Geech trying to rectify it......however I don't think it'll change anything at all. At most it'll annoy Leeds fans who have seen their club basically disappear, and not interest your average fan as they'll not see it as a "Yorkshire" club, just re-branded leeds.


*In the current EPS you have Webber, Care, Dickson, Wigglesworth, Farrell, Ford, Myler, Burrell, Eastmond, Ashton or 10/36 (28%) - and when you consider there's only 2 Aviva clubs (sometimes/often only one) up North.

It sounds to me as though Gary Hetherington is floating the idea of a merger.

I'd be surprised if this were the case. Rotherham may not be pressuring for an Aviva spot but they're a solid Championship side, and have produced a number of players that have moved on to the Aviva (and some for England).
I can't imagine that they'd basically kill their club for this.

 

[Peat]

Yeah, what the hell?

I guess I can get it as they want to increase fan base, get more people involved etc. but they ain't the only Yorkshire club in their league....

No, but they're by far the strongest.

I am greatly in favour of such a move. There is clearly potential for a Premiership club in Yorkshire. Having the strength split between three clubs does no one any favours. Putting the bulk of effort of rugby across the county into one club should, on paper, result in a very strong club. I've wanted to see something like this for ages.

However, key to this is the support of Doncaster and Rotherham. People there have to invest into this in some way or its not going to work. If they are, if this talk about discussions with the Yorkshire RFU and all the county clubs is true, and they are engaged and happy to make it work, then we could see something good. I would like to have seen spokesman from Rotherham, Donny and Wharfdale involved though. Sell it as a pan-Yorkshire effort.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

No, but they're by far the strongest.

I am greatly in favour of such a move. There is clearly potential for a Premiership club in Yorkshire. Having the strength split between three clubs does no one any favours. Putting the bulk of effort of rugby across the county into one club should, on paper, result in a very strong club. I've wanted to see something like this for ages.

However, key to this is the support of Doncaster and Rotherham. People there have to invest into this in some way or its not going to work. If they are, if this talk about discussions with the Yorkshire RFU and all the county clubs is true, and they are engaged and happy to make it work, then we could see something good. I would like to have seen spokesman from Rotherham, Donny and Wharfdale involved though. Sell it as a pan-Yorkshire effort.

I don't disagree with any of this.
Really agree with the last point, though - Donny and Rotherham are solid championship sides, and relatively old, and well established clubs.
It's all well and good looking in from the outside and saying they should band together for the good of the county, but would the two be willing to disband (or at least go back to amateur, with their pro's going to "Yorkshire"/Leeds).
Will be interesting to see what they say about the matter.

 

[ratsapprentice]

This situation changes quite considerably should "Yorkshire" get promoted though.

 

[j'nuh]

Fantastic news, I'm over the moon.

As a Bradfordian, I absolutely would not support Leeds. Not after years of pain as a City then Bulls fan. Leeds rebranded to Yorkshire? Now that's something I can get behind. Will definitely be my second team.

I think this is a great move. There are few counties with as strong a sense of county identity as Yorkshire. Tap into that, and they'll attract fans from way further afield than Leeds.

Shame it had to happen after I moved. Would love to catch a few games.

 

[Peat]

I don't think they have to, I don't think a full merger is necessary or definitely on the cards. All they have to do is persuade their fans that it's alright to go to Leeds to watch the big rugby some ways and then watch Donny/Rotherham the next - I think there's already an element of crowd sharing between the two clubs, so that's not new, although cutting the cake three ways is - and work on a basis that strong players at Donny/Rotherham are encouraged to go to Leeds (mid contract if necessary) and that Leeds youngsters are offered to the other Yorkshire clubs first on loan. I don't see any of that weakening the two to a point where they had to disband, although if they go for a full merger that would be different.

I think the guys at both Donny and Rotherham will be thinking to themselves that if there's a good Union side in the top flight, making a bit of waves, called Yorkshire, it might generate a bit of buzz around the whole county which is to their advantage. If that Yorkshire side is very strong and has a good quality of youngster unable to make the team straight away, meaning loan spells and double registration, they'll benefit from that as well. If Yorkshire becomes a bit of a powerhouse and agrees to pool Development Officer costs, another bonus. The Rhinos and Yorkshire could work together to help fund Sports Science programmes at Met, Donny and Rotherham benefit from that as well etc.etc. Basically, the possible benefits of creating a powerhouse club next door that's willing to work with you is huge.

Question - would it be possible for Sale to rebrand themselves as a club for the entire North-West? Would you want such a thing? How strong are the links between you and Fylde, Preston Grasshoppers, etc?

Tbh, I think we might see more of this. Yes, the Regions are a good warning on how not to do it. The Provinces/NZ regions are a good sign of how it can be done. An extra 500 fans a game from the countryside and an extra 2,000 replica shirts a year would be a fairly modest gain to expect from selling yourself to a wider support base, but conservatively that's an extra 300,000 a year (before costs). Is that worth the effort? If you think you can pull it off, I think it is.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Question - would it be possible for Sale to rebrand themselves as a club for the entire North-West? Would you want such a thing? How strong are the links between you and Fylde, Preston Grasshoppers, etc?

Very strong with Fylde - we play a pre-season against them every season, and our academy/Jets sides often have their players/send some the other way.
Preston not so much, which is a shame considering how strong a history they have (that's not to say we're not in cahoots with them, we run rugby camps there and Mike Haley, a very promising young fullback, came to us from them - just Fylde have a "special relationship" with us, more so than Sale FC, it seems!).

We did actually have "The North West's Club" as our marketing logo/slogan last season, but considering how crap we were last year it was just a bit embarrassing really.
Sale's grassroots program is pretty good to be fair, always sending players off to the clubs for training sessions, and end of season awards and the such, doing clinics for the coaches etc.
We're just in an incredibly awkward position (location wise) with so many Rugby League, and so so many football clubs, right on our doorstop.

The problem with rugby in the North always seems to be that a lot of people love playing it, a lot less people love watching it. They'd rather go out and play for Sedgley on a Saturday, then go watch Man City in the evening etc.



Selfishly, from a Sale point of view, I wonder what this means for our loan deal with them - at the moment we loan them a player or two every season (in the past Will Cliff/Lee Imiolek/Tommy Bell, at the moment James Doyle) - will this "Yorkshire" club want players from "them across the pennines"?

 

[j'nuh]

People looking from the outside might not think this will work. But I think it will be a success, I just don't know if it'll be modest or a resounding success.

Leeds accounts for 750, 000 people of the 5.2m people in Yorkshire. Tapping into the Yorkshire identity could bring in a lot more fans. Sure, Yorkshire isn't mad about union, but the sheer size of the market they could tap into makes this worth it.

The main market this will reach are the people from outside Leeds who live in West Yorkshire. West Yorkshire alone accounts for 2.2m people, one of the most populated counties in the country. People from Bradford, Wakefield, Huddersfield etc. will probably struggle to support Leeds. Yorkshire, on the other hand, will appeal to a lot of people.

Leeds is a business capital. There are so many opportunities to find investors and such. The smallest sign that Leeds are improving their standing as a club will bring with it a lot of confidence from investors. Also, being a business capital, a lot of people commute to Leeds to work, especially from Bradford. Getting a lot of footfall, plus strong transport links, will help facilitate people coming from outside Leeds to watch some rugby.

As far as the impact on Donny and Rotherham goes... well I know Rotherham will easily coexist with a Yorkshire club. They are doing well for themselves, have an established fan base and aren't really close to Leeds anyway. Rotherham are about as south as you can go in Yorkshire and still be in Yorkshire. I don't think many will make the journey to Leeds when they already have a local identity. Donny... I'm not too sure about. Some fans may be absorbed into Yorkshire Carnegie, but again I think the local identity will keep it alive.

That said, I think Yorkshire Carnegie can do a hell of a lot more good for Rotherham and Doncaster than harm. For a start, having three Yorkshire Championship clubs doesn't help. They compete with each other for resources whilst losing the top players to Premiership clubs. Having one Premiership club and two Championship clubs means that you can have all the top players playing for Yorkshire Carnegie, whilst the Championship-level players are split between two rather than three teams. Focusing the top academy talent into Yorkshire Carnegie's academy means Yorkshire Carnegie can run a stronger academy with better coaches and get more out of their players. Any player that doesn't make it for Yorkshire Carnegie can then play for Rotherham/Donny, trying to build their reputation. I think it will strengthen all three teams.

 

[ratsapprentice]

I hope the RFU see the potential in this and invest... regional rugby anyone?!

Ideal.

 

[Conal]

regions i hear?

 

[Mumbles119]

Certainly seems a solid idea for Yorkshire RFC and the area.

But could the Midlands and London regions be amalgamated? I am not sure the owners of those successful clubs grouped closely in their small areas would want to give their investment and legacy up.

Overall I would agree, if the regions were supported by governing bodies and more importantly, paying fans. Then this could be possible and benefit the whole game, a la NZ system from club, to franchise, to international.

 

[Peat]

As you say Mumbles - you won't get this in areas of high success which means the South-West, London and East Midlands won't see any moves like this anytime soon. Newcastle, Sale, Exeter and Wuss could all consider some sort of rebrand though

 

[Patchey]

This is really exciting. I don't see much of an issue with both Yorkshire Carnegie and Rotheram/Donncaster coexisting. As has been pointed out, Rotheram and Doncaster are both well established clubs that produce young talent (noticed how many ***ans players are being picked up by top flight clubs at the moment?). If Carnegie were to be promoted things would work ever better, with a de facto regional club and two strong lower tier clubs. It would basically creat a regional system ala Super Rugby/ITM.

As you say Mumbles - you won't get this in areas of high success which means the South-West, London and East Midlands won't see any moves like this anytime soon. Newcastle, Sale, Exeter and Wuss could all consider some sort of rebrand though

Exactly. Leicester and Saints are hardly likely to contribute to a regional team and London and the South West have too many top flight clubs for it to work. But I'd love to see a northern regional team from the other (proper) side of the Pennines and as Rats said earlier, a strong Cornish presence would be good for rugby too.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

from the other (proper) side of the Pennines

u wot m8

 

[Patchey]

u wot m8

Uh oh...

Dave Seymore is God in a ruck busting, human form.

Does that make things better?