League of Nations

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

Those are some amusingly weak quotes from Melville. Was he that scared by shipping so many points to Scotland? I thought it was the French who had a chicken as their mascot!

If he is concerned by a promotion playoff only being every second year then that can be solved by having a golden parachute, or having the playoff in Lions years.

The subtext is that rugby is "our game" and we simply dont care about anywhere else. A pox on his house.

 

[Derpus]

The tier 2 question is extremely difficult.

The international game is the shop window and where the money is. But I'd rather see a bottom up approach where the emphasis is on building the domestic game. Italy and Argentina have shown that it's not really possible to sustain top level competition without solid foundations. In my book that's what growing the game means, not giving a bunch of French based Georgians regular wallopings at HQ or the Principality.

Others will argue that a successful national team is needed to develop the wider game in a previously non rugby country. But in reality where has this actually happened?

Which is why Kenya, for example, could really use the 20 odd million they would stand to gain in the World League model. Can you imagine all the things these fledgling countries could do with some actual money?

Unpopular opinion alert!

As much as I love and respect the 6N... it really is the best annual sporting event in the world for me, the foundation that the 6N is built on is the game. Now forget about the proposed money... and forget about any association with the Blatter family for damn sure(!) but imho for the good of the game, ALL countries deserve a possible pathway to the big table... and the only way that will ever happen is with promotion/relegation.

As if a brexit driven England gives two shits about lofty ideals such as 'the good of the game'. No, it's bumbling and confused self interest all the way.

I'm going to put a tenner on England frog marching the 6 nations straight to CVC.

I knew Europe would scupper this proposal the second it came out, and yet i still somehow feel dissapointed.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I like how England is instantly the scapegoat despite no other side wanting this.

Love the notion that the tri nations are obsessed with growing the game and it's big evil England who is dragging everyone down.
Let's just ignore the Sunwolves debacle and the flat out refusal to involve the Pacific nations in any SH rugby

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

I like how England is instantly the scapegoat despite no other side wanting this.

Love the notion that the tri nations are obsessed with growing the game and it's big evil England who is dragging everyone down.
Let's just ignore the Sunwolves debacle and the flat out refusal to involve the Pacific nations in any SH rugby

It's definitely not the SH trying to skim off bigger economies. STFU.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

It's definitely not the SH trying to skim off bigger economies. STFU.

It's the W̶i̶l̶l̶ ̶o̶f̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶p̶e̶o̶p̶l̶e̶ good of the game

 

[Derpus]

I like how England is instantly the scapegoat despite no other side wanting this.

Love the notion that the tri nations are obsessed with growing the game and it's big evil England who is dragging everyone down.
Let's just ignore the Sunwolves debacle and the flat out refusal to involve the Pacific nations in any SH rugby

I think we can want something that would be great for the game on the one hand and acknowledge how horrendously garbage our management of the game has been thus far without being inconsistent.

Plus, trying to assert that England aren't big and evil is a frankly indefensible position.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

It's the W̶i̶l̶l̶ ̶o̶f̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶p̶e̶o̶p̶l̶e̶ good of the game

Let's be honest, the Will of the people doesn't care!

 

[bushytop]

I think we can want something that would be great for the game on the one hand and acknowledge how horrendously garbage our management of the game has been thus far without being inconsistent.

Plus, trying to assert that England aren't big and evil is a frankly indefensible position.

Lol... I did start my post with 'unpopular opinion alert'...

 

[mdaclarke]

People talk about the panacea of football for competitiveness but there have only ever been 8 winners and only 2 finals haven't featured Brazil, Argentina, Germany and Italy.

Therefore if a competitive 10 team world rugby league could be set up this would be as competitive as football and their world cup.

 

[smartcooky]

I like how England is instantly the scapegoat despite no other side wanting this.

Love the notion that the tri nations are obsessed with growing the game and it's big evil England who is dragging everyone down.
Let's just ignore the Sunwolves debacle and the flat out refusal to involve the Pacific nations in any SH rugby

Not really "blaming" England for a competition not happening that, if I have to be frank, I didn't give a fat rats arse about anyway.

However, what I can tell you is that if the NZRU chiefs gave what amounted to "we're afraid of what might happen if we were to be relegated" as an excuse, the fans would line them all up and burn them at the stake for heresy.

 

[Scotty]

Just a thought but rather than have all teams go through in 6n have top 4 from 6N. Top 4 from RC, so less games for tier 1 teams to play, bottom 2 from 6n and RC play tier 2 teams. Just a thought as it

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

World Rugby try to allay the fears over relegation by assuring that the second division will be invested in as a competition and that there would be a golden parachute.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/47747805

The only problem is that everyone knows that Melville wasnt being sincere with these concerns, so I cant see this changing the English union's mind.

I dont think bringing non European sides over to Europe in Feb and Marchfor the second division really improves things either. I dont get the rationale behind that as a way of increasing revenue.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

World Rugby try to allay the fears over relegation by assuring that the second division will be invested in as a competition and that there would be a golden parachute.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/47747805

The only problem is that everyone knows that Melville wasnt being sincere with these concerns, so I cant see this changing the English union's mind.

I dont think bringing non European sides over to Europe in Feb and Marchfor the second division really improves things either. I dont get the rationale behind that as a way of increasing revenue.

I think at this stage WR should just leave it. Say it's incompatible with different unions vision and vow to work behind the scenes to bring something workable in.

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

I think at this stage WR should just leave it. Say it's incompatible with different unions vision and vow to work behind the scenes to bring something workable in.

I at least agree that World Rugby are being unusually insistent about this. I can only think there must be things going on behind the scenes that indicate a dire future for SH rugby. The Boks have already felt the need to abandon any restrictions on picking players based in Europe and I'll be amazed if by 2027 the other three Tier1 SH sides haven't had to follow suit. What the hell will Super Rugby and the Rugby Championship look like if that comes to pass?

 

[Derpus]

Battle for the heart of rugby, essentially. Does it become a club/eurocentric game like professional football/soccer or can we establish the kind of revenue sharing necessary to sustain the south and bring new nations in.

Sadly, we all know where this goes.

 

[FrenchFan]

How long before the Boks are in division 2?

much longer after Italy and France

 

[mdaclarke]

I at least agree that World Rugby are being unusually insistent about this. I can only think there must be things going on behind the scenes that indicate a dire future for SH rugby. The Boks have already felt the need to abandon any restrictions on picking players based in Europe and I'll be amazed if by 2027 the other three Tier1 SH sides haven't had to follow suit. What the hell will Super Rugby and the Rugby Championship look like if that comes to pass?

I think the Championship will be OK. Super Rugby will suffer a bit though.

I think they should just have a closed shop of 10. A single world league of the 6N and RC. This should be acceptable to the 6N teams.

The 6N teams will never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ..... (x,1,000,0000) ever ever ever agree to relegation.

 

[mdaclarke]

Battle for the heart of rugby, essentially. Does it become a club/eurocentric game like professional football/soccer or can we establish the kind of revenue sharing necessary to sustain the south and bring new nations in.

Sadly, we all know where this goes.

If the World Rugby dropped promotion and relegation and accepted a closed shop then I think a deal could be done. This would help the RC teams but screw the Tier 2 teams. But would anybody in the RC and 6N really care about that if they are getting big money?

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

Battle for the heart of rugby, essentially. Does it become a club/eurocentric game like professional football/soccer or can we establish the kind of revenue sharing necessary to sustain the south and bring new nations in.

Sadly, we all know where this goes.

The thing that gets me is that the report above cites the Scottish and Irish unions as being opposed to relegation (and possibly the whole project?).

First the Top14 and Gallagher Prem came for the PIs, but I said nothing because I wasnt an Islander.
Then they came for the SH test players, but I said nothing, for I was not from the SH.
Then they came for the Celts... *gulp*

There are clear signs Scotland and Wales will start losing their best players from their clubs. Early days there. If Italy actually produce talent it will be bought immediately. Ireland are not going to be immune in a few years in any scenario that I can think of.

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

I think the Championship will be OK. Super Rugby will suffer a bit though.

I think they should just have a closed shop of 10. A single world league of the 6N and RC. This should be acceptable to the 6N teams.

The 6N teams will never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ..... (x,1,000,0000) ever ever ever agree to relegation.

Are European clubs going to be compelled to release SH players in Sept and Oct for the Rugby Championship? I don't know if that is currently the case? If that could be agreed long term it would mitigate things a lot.