June International Test: New Zealand vs. Wales [2nd Test] (18/06/2016)

[Rich Taff]

Thought it was another great test match.
First time I've noticed (and only after one of the sky commentators pointed it out), the deliberate 'Lets get another couple of quick tries!' shouting from NZ to each other after the first try. It's bloody effective, and always thought it was more of a coincidence, rather than a 'throw everything at them, quickly, and shut this game out'.
Anyone have a clip of JDII's handoff yet? Was a thing of beauty/embarrassment (depending on your nationality)

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Thought it was another great test match.
First time I've noticed (and only after one of the sky commentators pointed it out), the deliberate 'Lets get another couple of quick tries!' shouting from NZ to each other after the first try. It's bloody effective, and always thought it was more of a coincidence, rather than a 'throw everything at them, quickly, and shut this game out'.
Anyone have a clip of JDII's handoff yet? Was a thing of beauty/embarrassment (depending on your nationality)

Was that the 1 he put in to score his try. If so: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnHS8YKCdos at 2:30

 

[Rich Taff]

Was that the 1 he put in to score his try. If so: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnHS8YKCdos at 2:30

Yeah, that was the one thanks. Did the same to Sexton a couple of seasons ago.

Incidentally, that's probably the worst defensive performance from Jamie Roberts that I've ever seen. Not laying the blame on him, but as Gat's said in the press conference, he's held his hand up for two of the tries, and also tried to tackle like 1/2p in the first 5 mins. Hope it doesn't affect him.

Found a better view -

http://www.punditarena.com/rugby/ad...a-tamanivalu-tumbling-floor-monster-hand-off/

 

[nero]

Thought it was another great test match.
First time I've noticed (and only after one of the sky commentators pointed it out), the deliberate 'Lets get another couple of quick tries!' shouting from NZ to each other after the first try. It's bloody effective, and always thought it was more of a coincidence, rather than a 'throw everything at them, quickly, and shut this game out'.
Anyone have a clip of JDII's handoff yet? Was a thing of beauty/embarrassment (depending on your nationality)

I was at the match and I must say the crowd loved it! Haha...indeed, the Welsh were very well respected and although the score line was a bit one-sided it was a bloody tough game.

I haven't read through the thread in its entirety, but what's the opinion on no.10? Will Sopoanga get a chanc next week with the series in the bag?

Also, after watching England/Australia Scotland/Japan I realized how inconsistent our goal kickers are. We will lose tight matches because of it.

 

[austingtir]

I reckon Sopoanga.

I Still dont think Barrett can back up week in week out starting at 10.

 

[Adakins]

I would love to see Soponga get a run. Because even though I like Cruden and Barrett, I just feel if they are gonna be another great All Black team they need consistency with their kicking.
I think even though Cruden has been given an all clear I think it would be good to give him the week off with the series won, yes we don't want to lose game 3, I also think we can play a few other players.

 

[austingtir]

Nobodys mentioned it but I thought Naholo was outstanding on the left wing he was great on defence tonight stole a couple turnovers. Opposing wingers and centers cant handle him once he gets over the ball to steal he's immovable. Naholo has enough power that Savea wasnt missed at all. Savea might start regretting giving him a chance.

Savea's bloody lucky NMS isnt ready to come back soon.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

Only comment I have...I thought crotty was supposed to be starting

 

[The Jones Boy]

But you said dozens. Some of those compared to Spencer are questionable. Evans, Sopoaga, and Barrett in particular.

No it's not.
Carlos was a magical player with the ball in hand, he was an entertainer and for a few years he had great pace but he couldn't kick his own arse from a tee, he made poor choices under pressure and he was greedy and he choked against the Poms in Wellington 2003 when we had it in the bag against 13 men and should have crushed them, then he choked again in the semi final against hosts Australia when he threw the wild pass that Mortlock intercepted.
4 more years thank you Carlos...
Carlos was a mercurial talent at club and provincial level, even super 12 as it was then but when he had to do it against the big boys under pressure he was a choker. He loved getting on the pi$$ and it was that childish drinking culture that Henry rubbed out and look how things have progressed since then.
All of these players were better than Carlos or are better than him now because they CAN handle the pressure.
Christian Cullen
Dan Carter
Nick Evans
Beuden Barrett
Aaron Cruden
Lima Sopoaga
Mils Muliaina
Israel Dagg
Ben Smith
Brian Mackechnie
Lindsay Harris
Alan Hewson
Frano Botica
Grant Fox
Mathew Ridge
There's a whole team of them, plenty more besides, if you want to make a great team fail, put Carlos at the helm.

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I would love to see Soponga get a run. Because even though I like Cruden and Barrett, I just feel if they are gonna be another great All Black team they need consistency with their kicking.
I think even though Cruden has been given an all clear I think it would be good to give him the week off with the series won, yes we don't want to lose game 3, I also think we can play a few other players.

Completely agree.
I would love to see young Sopoanga get a chance, the kid looks awesome, Barrett, that guy is lightning in a bottle, he's so dynamic and I haven't seen running game like that since Christian Cullen. The difference is Barrett runs into space and doesn't end up in a cul de sac and cough up the pill or give away penalties for hanging on.
Barrett has been absolutely stunning for the AB"s, he has got gas to burn and his balance makes him so hard to tackle.
However, consistency with the kicking is an imperative.

 

[smartcooky]

Could one of the MODS please cull out all these off-topic *****ing player v player posts into a thread of their own.

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Despite the fact that he had a great game at 10, I still think Barrett's greatest value is his impact off the bench especially with his blistering speed against tiring opponents.

I'd like to see Sopoaga start on his home ground, after all, he has played well this season, and played damned well in his only other appearance for the All Blacks.

 

[nzlizard]

Despite the fact that he had a great game at 10, I still think Barrett's greatest value is his impact off the bench especially with his blistering speed against tiring opponents.

I'd like to see Sopoaga start on his home ground, after all, he has played well this season, and played damned well in his only other appearance for the All Blacks.

Yeah let Cruden have the week off and start Spoaga.

Would be pretty solid, would like to see Tuipulotu get a start also.

Fekitoa could be another, what did people think of Tamanivalu?, he was a real mixed bag.

Will they keep Nahalo on the left, Smith on the right and give Mckenzie a spot somewhere, big call to do if you are starting Sopoaga, you need experienced cover at 10, so that may cost Mckenzie.

Just so many little questions to be answered.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Yeah let Cruden have the week off and start Spoaga.

Would be pretty solid, would like to see Tuipulotu get a start also.

Fekitoa could be another, what did people think of Tamanivalu?, he was a real mixed bag.

Will they keep Nahalo on the left, Smith on the right and give Mckenzie a spot somewhere, big call to do if you are starting Sopoaga, you need experienced cover at 10, so that may cost Mckenzie.

Just so many little questions to be answered.

I can't see them bringing back Dagg, him having a good game, and then dropping him for Mckenzie. That's just poor player management. If Mckenzie get's a spot its Beauden's on the bench as 10/15 cover.

 

[austingtir]

Yeah let Cruden have the week off and start Spoaga.

Would be pretty solid, would like to see Tuipulotu get a start also.

Fekitoa could be another, what did people think of Tamanivalu?, he was a real mixed bag.

Will they keep Nahalo on the left, Smith on the right and give Mckenzie a spot somewhere, big call to do if you are starting Sopoaga, you need experienced cover at 10, so that may cost Mckenzie.

Just so many little questions to be answered.

I like Tamanivalu more than I like Fekitoa. put it that way. Fekitoa's been an abject failure imho. Got to give Fekitoa and Tamanivalu more time but I suspect either one of them could loose us a game in the near future.

 

[Rockradar]

I like Tamanivalu more than I like Fekitoa. put it that way. Fekitoa's been an abject failure imho. Got to give Fekitoa and Tamanivalu more time but I suspect either one of them could loose us a game in the near future.

I am starting to wonder if Fekitoas 2 good seasons was his form come and going and now gone and we are now seeing the real Fekitoa in that he doesn't really break the line!

Let's not forget he was overlooked by the Blues before heading over to the Highlanders. I'm not saying the Blues scouts are the best at forecasting ones rugby future but it shows he wasn't all that and his 2 seasons of Super where he was carving up surprised everyone including the Blues who let him go but NOW we are seeing the Fekitoa the Blues saw. If you get me...

Tamanivalu looks good but not confident about his defense and the same for Fekitoa. Davies fended him off for 6 in the last game, it was like a knockout fend. I'd rather see a proven capable defender like SBW there. I did see Tamanivalu go into some tackles extremely hard but that fend just sticks out for me.

 

[Aotearoa_]

I think we need to give Fekitoa a reasonable amount of time before we write him off.

He's now finally the starting centre. It takes time to really fill those boots. Filling Nonu's and Conrads is a big job, Nonu wasn't perfect in his first few years in the All Blacks. Growth and continuity is what has worked for the All Blacks over the years, especially at centre, let's keep him and see how he develops.

And if he doesn't develop, we always have SBW and Ngatai to fall back on. Which will push Tamanivalu out, who I don't think is up to All Black standard and his selection really shows the lack of depth in the midfield.

I can almost guarantee Sopoaga will start this weekend, given it's being played at the Barr, his home ground and given Aaron's injury scare.

Expecting Barrett to come on at 10 and Damian McKenzie to get a run at 15 as a sub. Julian deserves at least one more game to prove himself, hopefully being dropped has given him a wake up call. So Ben can go back to 15, or be given a rest and allow Dagg another game at 15.

The back row will likely be Dixon, Cane, Read, with Ardie replacing Cane.

I'm really surprised Jordan Taufua didn't get selected, I felt he's been the inform blindside this season, he really looks like Kaino's natural protege. No doubts Dixon will do great, but he's more of a number 8. Taufua should have been selected ahead of Squire in my opinion.

Tu'UngaFasi should get run.

Patrick Tuipulotu deserves a start

Aaron Smith again along side Sopoaga. Familiar territory for them both should balance the side nicely.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

originally posted by Aotearoa

With exception to Read, I think we have great depth and cover to our "superstars" and would still beat anyone.

Retallicks injury could be covered with Romano/Whitelock or Tuipulotu/Whitelock fairly comfortably.

Ben Smith can be covered by Dagg/McKenzie

Aaron can be covered easily with TJ/Weber

All those players would make and start for nearly every team in the world and be considered among their best players. I think your point about the AB's lack of depth is very incorrect.

In the front row, there are players like Brendan Edmonds who can come in, Toomaga Allen, Reggie Goodes, it's not nearly as bad as you think.


I think a lot of this talk is attempt to try and humanize the All Blacks a little and attempt to talk their own Nations up to that level.

Tuipulotu is still pretty raw at test level. Don't rate Romano and he's certainly not in Retallick's class.

Aaron Smith is the best scrum half in the world. There's a big gap between him and TJ and Weber. Kerr Barlow is next off the cab, but is injury prone.

Mckenzie is sensational at super rugby, but Bin Smuth has 50 caps. Big difference in experience. Dagg is good, if not great and his defence is no where near Bin's. Plus a number of Kiwi posters on here clearly don't rate Dagg. What Dagg does have is a big boot at test level and good under the high ball, but lacks Bin's consistency.

So I'm talking about the gap in caps between the 1st choice and the 2nd choice, and quality underneath.

Goodes, JTA, Tu'ungafasi, Edmunds (again out for the season) - how many AB caps do they have? 1 or 2?

My point is is take a few caps to get up to test level speed, in terms of experience and getting used to that level. The level below the top 15-20 players since McCaw, Carter, Nonu, Condrad, Mealamu takes time to replace. If ABs now lose players with a lot of caps, there is no guarantee those players underneath step up to that level immediately. And that's all it takes.

Of course, these posts are to humanise ABs. ABs are not invincible and never will be. When any team is no.1 in the world they are there to be shot at and to be knocked off their perch. That is the price of being the best in the world.

 

[Aotearoa_]

Tuipulotu is still pretty raw at test level. Don't rate Romano and he's certainly not in Retallick's class.

Aaron Smith is the best scrum half in the world. There's a big gap between him and TJ and Weber. Kerr Barlow is next off the cab, but is injury prone.

Mckenzie is sensational at super rugby, but Bin Smuth has 50 caps. Big difference in experience. Dagg is good, if not great and his defence is no where near Bin's. Plus a number of Kiwi posters on here clearly don't rate Dagg. What Dagg does have is a big boot at test level and good under the high ball, but lacks Bin's consistency.

So I'm talking about the gap in caps between the 1st choice and the 2nd choice, and quality underneath.

Goodes, JTA, Tu'ungafasi, Edmunds (again out for the season) - how many AB caps do they have? 1 or 2?

My point is is take a few caps to get up to test level speed, in terms of experience and getting used to that level. The level below the top 15-20 players since McCaw, Carter, Nonu, Condrad, Mealamu takes time to replace. If ABs now lose players with a lot of caps, there is no guarantee those players underneath step up to that level immediately. And that's all it takes.

Of course, these posts are to humanise ABs. ABs are not invincible and never will be. When any team is no.1 in the world they are there to be shot at and to be knocked off their perch. That is the price of being the best in the world.

All you have done is taken a number of very good players and put them down, because you have compared them to the best in the world (who play for us) and not to the competition around the world.

Really, re-read what you said about some of the rising stars and current stars of todays game. You don't rate Romano? Interesting, he's still a damn good player and a regular All Black regardless of what you think.


Again All Black caps/test experience isn't everything, lets take a look at a depleted Chiefs side that destroyed the Welsh and you want to come in here with fighting words about All Blacks lack of experience being a problem?

"knocked off their perch"

What's the bet you're from Manchester or there or there abouts.. Using a Fergie quote.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

All you have done is taken a number of very good players and put them down, because you have compared them to the best in the world (who play for us) and not to the competition around the world.

Really, re-read what you said about some of the rising stars and current stars of todays game. You don't rate Romano? Interesting, he's still a damn good player and a regular All Black regardless of what you think.


Again All Black caps/test experience isn't everything, lets take a look at a depleted Chiefs side that destroyed the Welsh and you want to come in here with fighting words about All Blacks lack of experience being a problem?

"knocked off their perch"

What's the bet you're from Manchester or there or there abouts.. Using a Fergie quote.

No I haven't. You need to re-read my post. I said there is a big difference in the first tier of players in terms of number of caps and the second tier. Apart from not rating Romano (he went straight out of the teams as soon as Whitlock became injury free) and saying Dagg is very good, but not as consistent as Ben Smith; I haven't put any player down. It just takes one or two injuries to key players; especially those with a lot of caps and experience, that is all I'm saying to change the dynamic of any team; not just the ABs.

And no I'm not from Manchester, regardless of my use of Fergie's comment..

 

[Aotearoa_]

No I haven't. You need to re-read my post. I said there is a big difference in the first tier of players in terms of number of caps and the second tier. Apart from not rating Romano (he went straight out of the teams as soon as Whitlock became injury free) and saying Dagg is very good, but not as consistent as Ben Smith; I haven't put any player down. It just takes one or two injuries to key players; especially those with a lot of caps and experience, that is all I'm saying to change the dynamic of any team; not just the ABs.

And no I'm not from Manchester, regardless of my use of Fergie's comment..

Dagg is still a world cup winner and his qualities some what undervalued these days because of how good Ben Smith is. He had a dip in form last season and was patchy with injuries, but he's still extremely experienced and stable. Romano probably wouldn't have made the RWC squad last year if Tuipulotu wasn't injured, but he's still an outstanding player and to simple "not rate him" is just foolish. Mate, I highly believe these players are better than what most of the world are offering and I still stand by the belief that given a few key injuries, on the day we can still beat anyone.

 

[Rockradar]

Of course, these posts are to humanise ABs. ABs are not invincible and never will be. When any team is no.1 in the world they are there to be shot at and to be knocked off their perch. That is the price of being the best in the world.

Yes absolutely true.