Joubert wants England cap

[Prestwick]

Oh boo hoo. Pietersen can be a prima donna but the fans know that but just because Trott drives bowlers mad with his excessive gardening doesn't make him a douchebag. Punching windows and threatening to lay out opposition players a-la Matthew Hayden? Yes now that is douchebaggery.

And then theres the other players you mentioned. Tuilagi? Yes because he'd be right at home back in Samoa what with his English accent and education and basically being brought up in the UK for 90% of his life. And then theres Corbisiero. Again you're right! He's a Brooklyn wise guy through and through, a regular on the Sopranos with his West London accent and not having a friggin' clue where the hell anything is in New York or New Jersey. A real all American American if I ever did see one.

At the end of the day they come here, they get given a chance to show their stuff which they weren't given back in their so called "home country" and in gratitude at how well the UK receives them, cares for them and provides for them decide to give something back and running out in a different jersey, thus banishing forever your chance of playing for your original country, is serious frickin' business not some mercenary decision. For others growing up in the UK is all that they have ever, ever known and being told "sorry but by coincidence of having a mother in New York you've got to go and play for a country you barely know" is farcical in the extreme.

My opinion? Let em' come, we have a meritocratic system (unlike others) where those who perform get picked and if English kids aren't getting picks its because they're not grafting and thats tough.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Did I strike a nerve??

 

[sonnench]

At the end of the day they come here, they get given a chance to show their stuff which they weren't given back in their so called "home country"

This just ruins what ever argument you may have had in my opinion. Every single South African now plying their trade in England was given ''a chance'' and only by England standards was their attempt deemed good enough for National selection.

 

[TRF_heineken]

South Africa has its fair share of douchebags and pricks as role models

​

Wow!! you have a sick mind if you see them as role models... well except Bakkies Botha. the rest of them were never a role model. and Julius Malema?? seriously??

 

[sonnench]

Bees Roux decked somebody who tried to rob him, he's a freaking icon.

 

[SelimNiai]

This just ruins what ever argument you may have had in my opinion. Every single South African now plying their trade in England was given ''a chance'' and only by England standards was their attempt deemed good enough for National selection.

Good enough for number one Test side in the world.

I'm so bored with this argument. If you guys think Trott and KP aren't any good why fight us and say "oh but their South African". Or is that because you have realised how good they are and want to take credit for their skills. On that front we can thank Warickshire for Trott and Notts for KP.

And before you say that I've posted on the nationality of the English rugby team then I plead 2nd degree trolling. It usually gets a response :lol:

In my book as long as they have a British passport and are good enough and respect the badge then they can play for England, Wales etc

 

[psychic duck]

Wow!! you have a sick mind if you see them as role models... well except Bakkies Botha. the rest of them were never a role model. and Julius Malema?? seriously??

many South Africans think Malema should be president ...

 

[TRF_heineken]

Good enough for number one Test side in the world.

I'm so bored with this argument. If you guys think Trott and KP aren't any good why fight us and say "oh but their South African". Or is that because you have realised how good they are and want to take credit for their skills. On that front we can thank Warickshire for Trott and Notts for KP.

And before you say that I've posted on the nationality of the English rugby team then I plead 2nd degree trolling. It usually gets a response :lol:

In my book as long as they have a British passport and are good enough and respect the badge then they can play for England, Wales etc

I'm just here to **** some posters off, as this is probably the 20th thread that comes down to exactly the same argument every f***ing time... people need to lighten up a bit on the forum, they are so bloody sensitive!! probably that time of the month for them?

 

[sonnench]

Good enough for number one Test side in the world.

I'm so bored with this argument. If you guys think Trott and KP aren't any good why fight us and say "oh but their South African". Or is that because you have realised how good they are and want to take credit for their skills. On that front we can thank Warickshire for Trott and Notts for KP.

You got me all wrong mate, I never said Trott was not any good, I would LOVE him to play for us. Trott is the only exception to my arguement, only because England picked him before we did. I see him as an ideal replacement for Kallis, he even looks a bit like him.

KP on the other hand you can keep, he's overrated and quite frankly a douche.

Oh and on the number one test team in the world....not for long mate.

 

[TRF_heineken]

many South Africans think Malema should be president ...

Really?

When did you last read a South African News paper? or were in South Africa to actually hear what the people think of the idiot? out of 42 Million people there won't be that many who would say that, especially now. And the one's who are saying that are just as ignorant, arrogant and also failed to pass grade 12.

But this doesn't make him a role model, someone to look up to... an Idol of some sort... you won't see many posters of Juju, Bees Roux, or Piet van Zyl on a kid's bedroom wall...

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

many South Africans think Malema should be president ...

Many South Africans are communists, idiots, cronies or some combination thereof. Many but by far the minority. Don't give all our black Saffa's a bad nae.

It's the same with Eugene Terreblanche. I don't want to speak ill of the dead but I used to hate it when people who knew nothing of SA and Boers thought Terblanche and the AWb was somehow a mainstream party and at all relevant to Boer interests. They are basically isolated to one small city and are the minority of the minority of the minority.

It's just that these loudmouths hog the sensationalist press coverage.

 

[TRF_heineken]

many South Africans think Malema should be president ...

Really?

When did you last read a South African News paper? or were in South Africa to actually hear what the people think of the idiot? out of 42 Million people there won't be that many who would say that, especially now. And the one's who are saying that are just as ignorant, arrogant and also failed to pass grade 12.

But this doesn't make him a role model, someone to look up to... an Idol of some sort... you won't see many posters of Juju, Bees Roux, or Piet van Zyl on a kid's bedroom wall...

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

This thread has really gone off the boil! wow

Just a question, the south african capped Beast and Mujati, where were they born? Zimbabwe? Yeah i thought so. Every country has foreigners playing, the rules allow it, no one likes it but that's that. People love to accuse the English but they are just the same.

 

[sonnench]

This thread has really gone off the boil! wow

Just a question, the south african capped Beast and Mujati, where were they born? Zimbabwe? Yeah i thought so. Every country has foreigners playing, the rules allow it, no one likes it but that's that. People love to accuse the English but they are just the same.

I agree this conversation has gone on long enough, however it's not the fact England have ''foreigners'' playing for them, it's the fact there is so many.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I agree this conversation has gone on long enough, however it's not the fact England have ''foreigners'' playing for them, it's the fact there is so many.

Meh, there are other countries with as many/more.

Englands line up vs Ireland was (arguably) their first choice XV under Stuart Lancaster, it had:
Manu Tuilagi (residency), Brad Barritt (blood), Alex Corbisiero (blood), Dylan Hartley (blood), Mouritz Botha (residency), Matt Stevens (blood).
While that's 6 out of 22 players "not English", only 2 of those have no English blood, and one of those came to England as a child.*

From Wales 22 vs France:
Alex Cuthbert (blood), Jonathan Davies (blood), George North (blood), Ian Evans (blood), Dan Lydiate (blood), Toby Faletau (residency).
That's 6 out of the 22, with one of them on residency.



*I haven't counted Lee Dickson as he was born on a British Army base in Germany.

 

[TRF_Cymro]

Meh, there are other countries with as many/more.

Englands line up vs Ireland was (arguably) their first choice XV under Stuart Lancaster, it had:
Manu Tuilagi (residency), Brad Barritt (blood), Alex Corbisiero (blood), Dylan Hartley (blood), Mouritz Botha (residency), Matt Stevens (blood).
While that's 6 out of 22 players "not English", only 2 of those have no English blood, and one of those came to England as a child.

From Wales 22 vs France:
Alex Cuthbert (blood), Jonathan Davies (residency), George North (blood), Ian Evans (blood), Dan Lydiate (blood), Toby Faletau (residency).
That's 6 out of the 22, with two of them on residency, same as England. The only difference is that both Davies and Faletau grew up in Wales (like Tuilagi) rather than moving there in their twenties (like Botha).

Actually his parents are Welsh.

Also his parents moved to Solihull from Wales - http://www.rugbyworld.com/news/jonathan-davies/

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Ah, my mistake.
God knows why anyone would want to move to Solihull, it's grim.


Disclaimer: My Mum's from there, so I'm allowed to say this.

 

[TRF_Cymro]

Ah, my mistake.
God knows why anyone would want to move to Solihull, it's grim.


Disclaimer: My Mum's from there, so I'm allowed to say this.

I was being pedantic btw.

But not as nice as Lozells and Handsworth.

 

[Prestwick]

This just ruins what ever argument you may have had in my opinion. Every single South African now plying their trade in England was given ''a chance'' and only by England standards was their attempt deemed good enough for National selection.

That makes absolutely no sense. This has nothing to do with every single foreigner theoretically being eligible for an England jersey because not every single South African plying their trade in England wants to play for England. Even if Schalk Brits was uncapped for South Africa would still want to play for South Africa because thats the cut of that guy's gib and as he is a fantastic gentleman I respect that. However I also respect Mouritz Botha when he works the skin off his bones to force his way to the very top in England's set up because he has earnt it. He wasn't just good enough he was the best. Thus my point, that those who want to play for their adopted nation that has given them something their original never did should be given the opportunity if they excel and prove themselves to be the best, still stands. Britain is a country founded on the values of fair play, (vaguely) open immigration and meritocracy. Get over it.

And did this strike a nerve? Yes it did. The silly and frankly xenophobic idea that people should not be allowed to play for such and such a country on the basis of their original nationality, that guys like Ngwenya, Martin Castrogiovanni and D.T.H. van der Merwe should never be allowed to play for the USA, Italy and Canada will always, always rile me as a liberal and civilised member of society.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

This thread has really gone off the boil! wow

Just a question, the south african capped Beast and Mujati, where were they born? Zimbabwe? Yeah i thought so. Every country has foreigners playing, the rules allow it, no one likes it but that's that. People love to accuse the English but they are just the same.

That's just it. People love to pull your leg. It goes no further than that.

With English colonialism you have a lot of English speaking people that identify almost more with England than their country of birth and i don't have a problem with them wanting to represent England. I see them as English whether they are South African or Zimbabwean or whatever. That's the reason why we call them 'soutpiele' in SA; one leg in SA and one leg in England. The Hendre Fourie and Mouritz Botha's are another matter but I don't blame anyone who doesn't feel like SA is the place for them. Better for everyone if they move.