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Jean Kleyn

I hope that's the case, if they feel the need to waste their own minutes to deny us a 7th choice lock, we're grand.
Not often I'd 100% agree on these topics with you but I think this is genuinely the fact and more so Kleyn was never getting in to Irish squad.

Henderson
McCarthy
Beirne
Ryan
Treadwell
Moloney

These are 6 that have been consistently in camp so will all be ahead of Jean who never made a Farrell camp.

There may be others as my brain is slow but I do know likes of Thomas Ahearn have done time as "Development" in camp too and Cian Prendergast has played lock in camp too.

And HIM (GAV COOMBES) is a lock at times too.
 
I guess this kind of feels relevant to post here. @munstermuffin some positive quotes in there for you in terms of keeping him longer, unless there becomes issues about the number of foreign players you have.

 
Everything is made up.

The point I was making is that world rugby hasn't clearly defined the tiers and therefore can't just suddenly implement changes based on them.
They have since 2008 and recently updated their bands of international teams.


Getting rid of the tier 1 / 2 distinction and applying the switch rule within a short period of time is incredibly stupid in my opinion.
 
The thing is, and this is what I find particularly interesting, most of the people I listen to/talk to outside of a Tier 1 rugby environment (so changing the countries OR the sport) appear to agree with me, in quite overwhelming numbers and sentiment if I might add. Can you imagine, playing for Italy's national footie team without even being an Italian citizen? Pretty sure it would stir quite a few pots. Or Germany. Or Brazil. Try playing for a top 30 team in footie and not singing their anthem, see how that goes.

So, i guess calling my view 'closer to the extreme' sounds very, very biased. Maybe the problem lies in the sample you are using.

And i am not talking about some obscure case of a third-tier Tongan playing for Sierra Leone at the sevens world series. This is quite generalized, known, and accepted. Just to name one of the biggest elephants in the room, Quade Cooper has been representing Australia (in one way or another; jrs, sevens, etc) since 2005 and he only got Australian citizenship in 2022. Let me say it in the clearest terms i can think of: he was representing a country while not being a citizen of that country. What you call 'towards the extreme', I call the norm. And not because that is my position. I call it the norm because that is what the evidence (much of it anecdotal, granted) i see strongly suggests! He was in Australia's rooster for 2 world cups and he couldn't fly on an Aus passport because he didn't have one; he wasn't even allowed to have one. Yet according to WR it was all good and dandy. Now THAT i call extreme.

If we could measure it I'd get a second and a third mortgage and bet it all on that most people would agree with me and not you on this. We can disagree, all good.
It wouldn't be allowed as Fifa require a passport to play.
 
It wouldn't be allowed as Fifa require a passport to play.
Are you sure?
Admittedly, I know nothing about football, and my reference is wiki, but...

The relevant current FIFA statute, Article 7: Acquisition of a new nationality, states:[19]
Any player who refers to art. 5 par. 1[note 1] to assume a new nationality and who has not played international football [in a match (either in full or in part) in an official competition of any category or any type of football] shall be eligible to play for the new representative team only if he fulfils one of the following conditions:
a) He was born on the territory of the relevant association;
b) His biological mother or biological father was born on the territory of the relevant association;
c) His grandmother or grandfather was born on the territory of the relevant association;
d) He has lived continuously for at least five years after reaching the age of 18 on the territory of the relevant association.
 
Can you think of an example? A somewhat known footie player who represented country A at a serious tourney (equiv of a test?) without being a citizen/national and/or having a passport of such country?
I cannot. Not saying there ain't, I just can't think of one.
I can for rugby. 3 out of the top of my head without googling. All from top 30 sides, two of them Tier 1.

I'd imagine it'd be extremely weird as points a)-d) cover most of the cases to obtain nationality/citizenship (ius solis, ius sanguinis, residency, etc. ) in quite a lot of places.
 
Me?
No, but then, I'd struggle to name more than 2-3 people who play football, fewer where I could tell you their nationality.
 
No, but then, I'd struggle to name more than 2-3 people who play football, fewer where I could tell you their nationality.
Well, if anyone from Argentina, Brazil, Germany, England or Italy represented their country at several world cups without that country's passport, there is a pretty big chance that story would be on every footie outlet's front page. Messi traveling on a Brazilian passport? Neymar on an Arg one? Mbappe going through customs with Italian docs? Harry Kane with a German passport?
The meme's would break the internet. The media would be all over it. It doenst/didnt happen for, hopefully, quite understandable reasons.

Quade Cooper not only did that, but when he did apply for Aus citizenship his application was rejected. It's so far stretched it sounds untrue, granted. Brian Mujati played for the Springboks. He was then declared ineligible to play due to his citizenship. Take a guess how many times did he play? One? Two? Thre!!!!!! No, 12 times... It took them 12 bloody tests (playing, not counting benches) to realize there was something wrong with his paperwork.

Mistakes happen, sure. I once put salt on my coffee. That's a mistake. The two examples above are either gargantuan **** ups involving so many people they could populate a small town, for whom no one, NOT ONE, was clearly and visibly sentenced... or this is all a purposely designed policy.

Rugby (RU, players, WR, THC, fans, the lot) got quite a few things right when compared to other sports. A lot! Eligibility aint one of them.
 

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