ITM Cup - Round 9

[TRF Mr Fish]

I don't know if Waikato are favourites At least Tasman have played some reasonably good rugby this season.

 

[Darwin]

I don't know if Waikato are favourites At least Tasman have played some reasonably good rugby this season.

Yep, apart from last weekend (when they were well beaten by Otago) they have played pretty well in every game this season. I just think the home ground advantage will be key for Waikato - if the game had been played in Nelson (or Marlborough) I may well have had Tasman as favourites...

 

[Shaggy]

Yep, apart from last weekend (when they were well beaten by Otago) they have played pretty well in every game this season. I just think the home ground advantage will be key for Waikato - if the game had been played in Nelson (or Marlborough) I may well have had Tasman as favourites...

yep, my heart is trying to convince my head that the Makos will be favourites, but the Mooloo's are pretty tough at home ... not writing the Makos off by any means ... just a little bit wary of making rash predictions after the Otago game

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

Well close win by Waikato, 20-19.

Lots of dodgy calls.

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

Was a reasonably close game for most of the match between the Naki and Manawatu in this week's Shield challenge. After halftime though, Naki cut loose.

Final score 59-18

 

[Shaggy]

Well close win by Waikato, 20-19.

Lots of dodgy calls.

Didn't get coverage here ... were the calls dodgy for both sides ... was the score a fair reflection of the game?

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

Didn't get coverage here ... were the calls dodgy for both sides ... was the score a fair reflection of the game?

I thought the Makos were more hard done by, but yeah it was mainly both ways. Waikato did have the better of the game, slightly, but it was very close, so yeah I think it's probably a fair reflection.

 

[TRF_Cymro]

The ref officiating the Otago-Hawkes Bay game is all over the shop.

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

I was about to post that the quality of reffing in the ITM Cup has been appalling this season. I don't know if Super Rugby just had high quality officiating or something, but I've been left very unimpressed with this season's referees.

 

[Darwin]

The ref officiating the Otago-Hawkes Bay game is all over the shop.

Yep. He missed a pile of knock-ons, and when he did blow them he often blew them for the wrong team

Anyways, a disappointing loss for Otago, though the didn't deserve to win as they played stupid rugby. They had a total of 12 tries in their last two matches by using their backline, so for some reason tonight they persisted with putting up bombs, or tried to smash through in the forwards (with their average forward pack).

 

[smartcooky]

I was about to post that the quality of reffing in the ITM Cup has been appalling this season. I don't know if Super Rugby just had high quality officiating or something, but I've been left very unimpressed with this season's referees.

I agree.

I have lost count of the number of times I have seen two highly illegal actions taking place at the breakdown

1. Tacklers and arriving players putting themselves on the opponents' side of the ball and slowing down quick ruck ball.

2. Players tackling the ball carrier, then remaining on their feet and going straight for the ball without ever releasing the tackled player i.e. no daylight/release.

These two actions allow the defending team to either get get illegal turnovers, or at the very least to slow the ball down enough so that they can get their defences set. The failure on the part of the ITM Cup referees to effectively police these two areas of the breakdown leads directly to the games like this evening's Hawkes Bay v Otago match, where the two defences effectively nullified each others attacks.

What we need to see is referees ruthlessly penalising players who illegally slow the ball down (yellow cards if they don't get compliance). This will lead to quick ball, and put the attacks at an advantage over the defences, and that leads to tries instead of the awful kick-fest we saw tonight.

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

Yep, you'll recall I actually commented on it earlier in the season: http://www.therugbyforum.com/forum/showthread.php?28471-Refereeing-in-the-ITM-Cup

It makes for poor spectacle games... As darwin mentioned though, it's not just breakdown interpretation, it's general things like missing knock ons etc. Of course a lot of the blame has to go on the ARs for this.

 

[smartcooky]

Yep, you'll recall I actually commented on it earlier in the season: http://www.therugbyforum.com/forum/showthread.php?28471-Refereeing-in-the-ITM-Cup

It makes for poor spectacle games... As darwin mentioned though, it's not just breakdown interpretation, it's general things like missing knock ons etc. Of course a lot of the blame has to go on the ARs for this.

Knock-on's and forward throws (remember for a forward throw, the referee needs to see the action of the passer; the mere fact that the ball travelled forward over the ground does NOT equate to a forward throw) take place in fractions of a second. They are very much a did see it or didn't see it thing. A referee can only be looking in one place at a time, and can miss a knock on or a forward pass if they are unsighted by another player, are looking at something else, or even if they happen to blink at the wrong moment.

However, missing a player lying on the ground for a couple of seconds, or failing to notice that a tackle assist is still on his feet and facing the wrong way is unforgivable, and unacceptable at this level.

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

I sometimes wonder whether ARs are afraid to chime in on the action. Note you only very rarely hear calls from the ARs about anything other than a foot in touch or foul play - surely the ARs should be picking up things the referee doesn't see - even if it is only offside calls etc. I think they go into the match with the wrong mindset, to be honest.

The forwards passes aren't a major thing for me, honestly, unless they directly contribute to a team gaining an advantage that wouldn't have been gained unless the forward pass had been made (hate to use it as an example, but 07 WC) - this is because it's so hard to tell sometimes, and the actual ruling (forward throw, as you say) makes it even more difficult to judge. General play knock ons, however, are being missed far too much for my liking. Surely ARs should be picking up on this?

Obviously you can't expect a referee to make a call when he doesn't see a knock on, but I think you can fault a refereeing team if they are all in such positions that the sum of their vision doesn't trump the vision of the primary referee.

 

[Shaggy]

Wow! Canterbury 84, Southland 0 ... that's got to be some kind of record in ITM cup, surely

 

[Kiwiwomble]

i have one big disappointment (other than otago loosing), canterbury v southland kicked off at 2:30? so full time 4:15ish?...i was at the airport (arriving) and southland were checking in a 5:30! pretty disappointed to see any kind of aftermatch is gone and this is just a business now

I understand they have very tight turnarounds now days and they had just copped a hiding but still, i have always thought having a beer after they game softened the blow of a big lost, just a little sad

 

[Darwin]

i have one big disappointment (other than otago loosing), canterbury v southland kicked off at 2:30? so full time 4:15ish?...i was at the airport (arriving) and southland were checking in a 5:30! pretty disappointed to see any kind of aftermatch is gone and this is just a business now

I understand they have very tight turnarounds now days and they had just copped a hiding but still, i have always thought having a beer after they game softened the blow of a big lost, just a little sad

Looking at the score I assumed that they had left at halftime to check into the airport

 

[Kiwiwomble]

...oh no you didn't!