N
nam97
Guest
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Wally @ Nov 15 2009, 04:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
What? It was in Milan dude... Italy, not Spain.
What? It was in Milan dude... Italy, not Spain.
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M
Melhor Time
Guest
Gower is good, very good. The problem is his Italian is not strong yet and he is playing with 2 Argentina centres. Gonzalo Canale speaks Spanish as a first language and has perfect French as he uses it every week for Clermont and has done so for years now. Italian is his third language and English is his fourth. He works superbly for Clermont with Aussia Brock James and they only use French. The other centre is Gonzalo Garcia who has been playing in Italy for a few years now and has perfect Italian and, of course, Spanish. So the centres can talk together in Spanish but Gower can't speak any. Similalry, Gower has good French after playing for a few years in Bayonne but has a 12 (Garcia) who does not speak French.
Its a nightmare scenario and explains why Mallet was cautious in selecting Gower who he could have picked 2 years ago. His 8 and captain, Parisse speaks perfect Spanish, Italian and French and has far weaker English. The Bergamasco' s have perfect Italian and French. So, in other words, the players linking with Gower are do not have English as a first language. All, but Gower have perfect Italian. Italy have many non-Italians but it is only Robertson and McLean who can work strong with him in the backs in English.
So, give it time. Gower is being slammed by many for his performance. Questions are being asked of why Mallet picked him. But, without any question at all, he is Italy's best 10 since Diego Dominguez. They lost key World Cup matches in 2003 and 2007 because of having poor flyhalves. 2011 will, finally, see Italy having a good 10. Porbably better than those of Ireland (Old O' Gara / Sexton) who they face in their key pool match.
The game was fantastic for the homeside, I thought. Sure it was stop start thanks to scum issues and other problems but Italy only conceeded one try. Go back to 2007 and ask if this is at all posible. The fans, as Mallet said, got to go home proud after seeing theur team host the most famous team in the World and compete. A better referee would have given at least one penalty try to Italy and the situation would have been different.
Video highlights:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bUna5dsz_U...feature=related
Its a nightmare scenario and explains why Mallet was cautious in selecting Gower who he could have picked 2 years ago. His 8 and captain, Parisse speaks perfect Spanish, Italian and French and has far weaker English. The Bergamasco' s have perfect Italian and French. So, in other words, the players linking with Gower are do not have English as a first language. All, but Gower have perfect Italian. Italy have many non-Italians but it is only Robertson and McLean who can work strong with him in the backs in English.
So, give it time. Gower is being slammed by many for his performance. Questions are being asked of why Mallet picked him. But, without any question at all, he is Italy's best 10 since Diego Dominguez. They lost key World Cup matches in 2003 and 2007 because of having poor flyhalves. 2011 will, finally, see Italy having a good 10. Porbably better than those of Ireland (Old O' Gara / Sexton) who they face in their key pool match.
The game was fantastic for the homeside, I thought. Sure it was stop start thanks to scum issues and other problems but Italy only conceeded one try. Go back to 2007 and ask if this is at all posible. The fans, as Mallet said, got to go home proud after seeing theur team host the most famous team in the World and compete. A better referee would have given at least one penalty try to Italy and the situation would have been different.
Video highlights:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bUna5dsz_U...feature=related
F
feicarsinn
Guest
Nah Italy would kill for Sexton. He truly is the shizzle dizzle. The language thing sounds like a bit of a weak excuse to be completely honest.
N
Nickdnz
Guest
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (wairarapa_cullen @ Nov 15 2009, 07:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
I actually thought Tialata was fine, Crockett was the big let down in the scrum. We also need Tialata to play both tight and loose head. I like the idea of Woodcock and Franks starting with Tialata on the bench. So'oialo is still the second best #8 in New Zealand, with perhaps Waldrom a very close third. So'oialo has slowed down, but I kinda hate how people call him **** after 60+ tests. He has hit a point where I think hit best games are behind him, but he is still a good played. Latimer did very little, I'd love to see Scott Waldrom get his chance, it was terrible timing his injury. I thought Boric was poor and was made to look very average when it came down to scrummaging, Donnelly was far better.Why is nobody on Tialata's case? The guy is dead weight, he got shat on big time. Franks is 100 times better, Henry loves his big sackish Wellington/Auckland players obviously. I loved it when the Italians got stuck into Tialata when he got sent off, should have been a red and a penalty try but Dickenson dicked things up as usual. Crockett is also very average. Franks and Woodcock are our best bet at props with Afoa on the bench and those other 2 guys nowhere near the All Blacks team.
Ellis is still useless, my god he is slow... in every facet of his game. So'oialo and Messam are useless also, Latimer I wouldn't be too rough on.
Can't wait until England next week, for the sole sake of Henry actually fielding us a decent side.
Team for England should be;
Muliaina, Jane, Smith, Nonu, Sivivatu, Carter, Cowan, Read, McCaw, Kaino, Eaton, Thorn, Franks, Hore, Woodcock.
On the bench;
Flynn, Afoa, Boric, Thomson, Ellis (sigh... where the f*** is Weepu?), McAlister, Ellison.[/b]
C
candybum
Guest
I reckon you're pretty tough on some players. Some haven't played a while against a pack that was pretty awesome that night. Boric wasn't very good but he only has a couple ANZcup games under his belt this year, most of the other guys (the debutants) were pretty solid.
Crockett did get schooled though.
Crockett did get schooled though.
M
Melhor Time
Guest
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (feicarsinn @ Nov 15 2009, 09:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
Well, I train players here in Brazil and do so in Portuguese which is my third langauge and I speak very well but it would be easier for me to use my mother language.... Seriously, it is something crucial. I get very angry with the IRB when they give only English speaking referees to games like Romania vs Georgia, France vs Italy, France vs Argentina or Italy vs Argentina. More Italians and Argentine players use French than English like France of course yet the IRB hand them South Africans for instance. Its utterly wrong. The ref, not the players should be prepared to use a different language. Games involving Georgia, Romania and others are even worse. French, for these two teams is much more used. Telling the front rows that they are committing penalties at scrumtime often goes misunderstood or not understood at all. It happens a lot.
and... Sexton is not as good as Gower. Verey promising but 5 years away from being a star, if ever.
Nah Italy would kill for Sexton. He truly is the shizzle dizzle. The language thing sounds like a bit of a weak excuse to be completely honest.[/b]
Well, I train players here in Brazil and do so in Portuguese which is my third langauge and I speak very well but it would be easier for me to use my mother language.... Seriously, it is something crucial. I get very angry with the IRB when they give only English speaking referees to games like Romania vs Georgia, France vs Italy, France vs Argentina or Italy vs Argentina. More Italians and Argentine players use French than English like France of course yet the IRB hand them South Africans for instance. Its utterly wrong. The ref, not the players should be prepared to use a different language. Games involving Georgia, Romania and others are even worse. French, for these two teams is much more used. Telling the front rows that they are committing penalties at scrumtime often goes misunderstood or not understood at all. It happens a lot.
and... Sexton is not as good as Gower. Verey promising but 5 years away from being a star, if ever.
D
durbutter
Guest
What has Gower done? Saying he's a better player than O'Gara is a big statement. I know he hasn't played well for like a year and a half, but on form he's class. He's hated, but Gower will have to be a great player to be better than O'Gara. time will tell i guess.
S
stormmaster1
Guest
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gavin @ Nov 15 2009, 05:11 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
You could tell that Italy were getting very angry at Dickenson by not awarding a penalty try, he really did live up to his name.
[/b][/quote]
You don't concede penalty try for repeat offending. you get a try if a single penalty incident stopped a try from probably being scored. repeat offending= yellow card. if you get 2 opposition props off, and are playing 13 men then i think you should be able to score, unless Andy goode is at fly-half.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (feicarsinn @ Nov 15 2009, 05:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Italy were robbed of a try by Dickenson in the last 6 minutes. 4 penalties at scrum time on the All Blacks 5m, a yellow card and still no penalty try.[/b]
You could tell that Italy were getting very angry at Dickenson by not awarding a penalty try, he really did live up to his name.
[/b][/quote]
You don't concede penalty try for repeat offending. you get a try if a single penalty incident stopped a try from probably being scored. repeat offending= yellow card. if you get 2 opposition props off, and are playing 13 men then i think you should be able to score, unless Andy goode is at fly-half.
G
Gavin
Guest
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (stormmaster1 @ Nov 16 2009, 04:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
You could tell that Italy were getting very angry at Dickenson by not awarding a penalty try, he really did live up to his name.
[/b][/quote]
You don't concede penalty try for repeat offending. you get a try if a single penalty incident stopped a try from probably being scored. repeat offending= yellow card. if you get 2 opposition props off, and are playing 13 men then i think you should be able to score, unless Andy goode is at fly-half.
[/b][/quote]
Italy were in clear control of the scrum, they could have drove the All Blacks scrum back over their own line if they hadn't kept on collapsing it.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gavin @ Nov 15 2009, 05:11 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (feicarsinn @ Nov 15 2009, 05:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Italy were robbed of a try by Dickenson in the last 6 minutes. 4 penalties at scrum time on the All Blacks 5m, a yellow card and still no penalty try.[/b]
You could tell that Italy were getting very angry at Dickenson by not awarding a penalty try, he really did live up to his name.
[/b][/quote]
You don't concede penalty try for repeat offending. you get a try if a single penalty incident stopped a try from probably being scored. repeat offending= yellow card. if you get 2 opposition props off, and are playing 13 men then i think you should be able to score, unless Andy goode is at fly-half.
[/b][/quote]
Italy were in clear control of the scrum, they could have drove the All Blacks scrum back over their own line if they hadn't kept on collapsing it.
F
feicarsinn
Guest
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Melhor Time @ Nov 15 2009, 11:56 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
Well, I train players here in Brazil and do so in Portuguese which is my third langauge and I speak very well but it would be easier for me to use my mother language.... Seriously, it is something crucial. I get very angry with the IRB when they give only English speaking referees to games like Romania vs Georgia, France vs Italy, France vs Argentina or Italy vs Argentina. More Italians and Argentine players use French than English like France of course yet the IRB hand them South Africans for instance. Its utterly wrong. The ref, not the players should be prepared to use a different language. Games involving Georgia, Romania and others are even worse. French, for these two teams is much more used. Telling the front rows that they are committing penalties at scrumtime often goes misunderstood or not understood at all. It happens a lot.
and... Sexton is not as good as Gower. Verey promising but 5 years away from being a star, if ever.
[/b][/quote]
Surely if Gower was that good he'd be playing down South?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (feicarsinn @ Nov 15 2009, 09:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Nah Italy would kill for Sexton. He truly is the shizzle dizzle. The language thing sounds like a bit of a weak excuse to be completely honest.[/b]
Well, I train players here in Brazil and do so in Portuguese which is my third langauge and I speak very well but it would be easier for me to use my mother language.... Seriously, it is something crucial. I get very angry with the IRB when they give only English speaking referees to games like Romania vs Georgia, France vs Italy, France vs Argentina or Italy vs Argentina. More Italians and Argentine players use French than English like France of course yet the IRB hand them South Africans for instance. Its utterly wrong. The ref, not the players should be prepared to use a different language. Games involving Georgia, Romania and others are even worse. French, for these two teams is much more used. Telling the front rows that they are committing penalties at scrumtime often goes misunderstood or not understood at all. It happens a lot.
and... Sexton is not as good as Gower. Verey promising but 5 years away from being a star, if ever.
[/b][/quote]
Surely if Gower was that good he'd be playing down South?
M
Melhor Time
Guest
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (feicarsinn @ Nov 15 2009, 03:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
No, he is very happy in France. His wife and him have both commented about it saying they wish that had left Australia earlier!
He should 'come alive' for Italy vs Scotland and Wales in particular in the 6 Nations. It will be great to see Marcato back in the team playing fullback. Its a very, very good combination which is something Italy have never had with their 10s and 15s.
[/b]
No, he is very happy in France. His wife and him have both commented about it saying they wish that had left Australia earlier!
He should 'come alive' for Italy vs Scotland and Wales in particular in the 6 Nations. It will be great to see Marcato back in the team playing fullback. Its a very, very good combination which is something Italy have never had with their 10s and 15s.
F
Flux
Guest
I have to agree on the Tialata front. To me he doesn't do all that much in the scrums, and is an absolute waste of space with the ball in hand. I don't know how many times I've seen him halt a promising attack but opting to take the ball up himself rather than passing. More often than not, he then goes on to get the ball turned over because his body positioning is far too high. Then throw in all the stupid penalties he gives away and I'd rather not have him in a Hurricanes team, let alone an All Blacks one. He was lucky that he didn't get caught delibarately impeding an Italian player chasing a kick yesterday.
D
danit
Guest
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Melhor Time @ Nov 15 2009, 12:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
Gonza mother language is italian 100%, he speaks naturally italian and spanish as he spent his childhood half in Argentina and half in Italy (argentinian born from italian parents, back to Italy at the age of 2 (!), back to Argentina at the age of 10, then back to Italy at the age of 17 he played for Treviso 'til the age of 22 when he went to Clermont)
french is his third language, by far
not true at allGonzalo Canale speaks Spanish as a first language and has perfect French as he uses it every week for Clermont and has done so for years now. Italian is his third language and English is his fourth. He works superbly for Clermont with Aussia Brock James and they only use French.[/b]
Gonza mother language is italian 100%, he speaks naturally italian and spanish as he spent his childhood half in Argentina and half in Italy (argentinian born from italian parents, back to Italy at the age of 2 (!), back to Argentina at the age of 10, then back to Italy at the age of 17 he played for Treviso 'til the age of 22 when he went to Clermont)
french is his third language, by far
J
jawmalawm24
Guest
It was a b string All Blacks side but everyone expects alot more than what they showed us. Crockett got schooled hard but Woodcock and Franks would have changed things around and I think we would of saw alot better ball going to the backs.
Ellis I've never rated ever and he got charged down 3 times and the ball knocked from his hands taking a step from the ruck. I don't know why they keep picking this fulla instead of Weepu. Is this not the same 3 that we took to the world cup are Henry and co trying to prove something?. I have to say Cowans the best 9 out of the 3 of them and he deserves to be there.
Someone that didn't really get much mention was Tarmz. He didn't get too much of a chance to show what he's got but I think he can make a good backup centre for conrad and if ever they need a right wing or fullback he can easily cover those positions.
Ellis I've never rated ever and he got charged down 3 times and the ball knocked from his hands taking a step from the ruck. I don't know why they keep picking this fulla instead of Weepu. Is this not the same 3 that we took to the world cup are Henry and co trying to prove something?. I have to say Cowans the best 9 out of the 3 of them and he deserves to be there.
Someone that didn't really get much mention was Tarmz. He didn't get too much of a chance to show what he's got but I think he can make a good backup centre for conrad and if ever they need a right wing or fullback he can easily cover those positions.
C
cyRil
Guest
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (stormmaster1 @ Nov 15 2009, 03:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
You could tell that Italy were getting very angry at Dickenson by not awarding a penalty try, he really did live up to his name.
[/b][/quote]
You don't concede penalty try for repeat offending. you get a try if a single penalty incident stopped a try from probably being scored. repeat offending= yellow card.
[/b][/quote]
Surely you're wrong?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gavin @ Nov 15 2009, 05:11 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (feicarsinn @ Nov 15 2009, 05:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Italy were robbed of a try by Dickenson in the last 6 minutes. 4 penalties at scrum time on the All Blacks 5m, a yellow card and still no penalty try.[/b]
You could tell that Italy were getting very angry at Dickenson by not awarding a penalty try, he really did live up to his name.
[/b][/quote]
You don't concede penalty try for repeat offending. you get a try if a single penalty incident stopped a try from probably being scored. repeat offending= yellow card.
[/b][/quote]
Surely you're wrong?
S
Sir Speedy
Guest
He is and don't call him Shirley etc
P
Prestwick
Guest
Is it me or is anyone with the surname Ellis really awful at being a scrum-half?
N
Nickdnz
Guest
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Prestwick @ Nov 16 2009, 03:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
It does seem that way. meh, Ellis isn't terrible, he just isn't of All Black standard. Weepu wasn't considered because of injury apparently, however he played for the Lions instead, I think Henry just dosen't like Weepu. I believe Byron Kelleher was the other halfback that went to France, and I'd really like to see him return in time for the RWC.Is it me or is anyone with the surname Ellis really awful at being a scrum-half?[/b]
P
Prestwick
Guest
He's playing for Toulouse but got into a bit of bother after having a fight while drunk then driving off in a car drunk and crashing said car while drunk and trying to run away from said car crash scene drunk.
Obviously, the French police were totally biased against poor Kelleher because he's an All Black. /sarcasm
Obviously, the French police were totally biased against poor Kelleher because he's an All Black. /sarcasm
D
danger
Guest
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Prestwick @ Nov 16 2009, 04:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
Great footballer, but hes always been a bit thick.
He's playing for Toulouse but got into a bit of bother after having a fight while drunk then driving off in a car drunk and crashing said car while drunk and trying to run away from said car crash scene drunk.
Obviously, the French police were totally biased against poor Kelleher because he's an All Black. /sarcasm[/b]
Great footballer, but hes always been a bit thick.
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