Italy 2014 Six Nations Thread.

[LittleGuy]

The Italian squad was announced last week and as is usual with the Azzuri extended lineup there are large parts which pretty much choose themselves, with more intruiging debates surrounding younger fringe players and injury replacements. Of note is both Bergamasco brothers being included, in fact Mauro is only 18 months away from having a chance to tie Brian Lima's five RWC appearance record should he stay in the side till then.

Side looks like the usual everywhere but wing, where the Italian depth looks fairly shocking, I don't even think it's too bold to state that Italy could be weaker than Canada in the outside backs come the 2015 RWC pool match.

Here is the extended side.

Italian Squad

Prop

Martin Castrogiovanni (Toulon, France)
Lorenzo Cittadini (Benetton Treviso)
Alberto de Marchi (Benetton Treviso)
Michele Rizzo (Benetton Treviso)

Hooker

Leonardo Ghiraldini (Benetton Treviso)
Davide Giazzon (Zebre)

Locks

Marco Bortolami (Zebre)
Joshua Furno (Biarritz, France)
Marco Fuser (Benetton Treviso)
Quintin Geldenhuys (Zebre)
Antonio Pavanello (Benetton Treviso)

Loose Forwards

Robert Barbieri (Benetton Treviso)
Mauro Bergamasco (Zebre Rugby)
Paul Derbyshire (Benetton Treviso)
Sergio Parisse (Stade Francais, France)
Alessandro Zanni (Benetton Treviso)


Scrum-Half

Edoardo Gori (Benetton Treviso)
Tobias Botes (Benetton Treviso)

Fly Half

Tommaso Allan (Perpignan, France)
Luciano Orquera (Zebre)


Centres

Tommaso Benvenuti (Perpignan, France)
Michele Campagnaro (Benetton Treviso)
Gonzalo Garcia (Zebre)
Alberto Sgarbi (Benetton Treviso)


Outside Backs

Mirco Bergamasco (Vea-FemiCZ Rovigo)
Angelo Esposito (Benetton Treviso)
Tommaso Iannone (Zebre)
Luke McLean (Benetton Treviso)
Guglielmo Palazzani (Zebre)
Leonardo Sarto (Zebre)

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I thought Mirco had retired after leaving France, not heard of him since!

Allan should secure himself as first choice 10 this 6N, he's looked very good for USAP, certainly far better than anything Italy has had to offer in a while (bar a game or two last year).

 

[LittleGuy]

I thought Mirco had retired after leaving France, not heard of him since!

Allan should secure himself as first choice 10 this 6N, he's looked very good for USAP, certainly far better than anything Italy has had to offer in a while (bar a game or two last year).

Yeah Mirco has been hiding out in Italian domestic rugby with Rovigo.

Agreed on Allan, Orquera is just way too inconsistent he was brilliant against France last year but than dire against the Scots the very next week. Burton was a medicocre game managing type FH who was effective enough against lower Tier teams but not good enough at 6N level.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Yeah Mirco has been hiding out in Italian domestic rugby with Rovigo.

I'm presuming through choice?
I know he's hotheaded and not as young as he was, but I'm sure he could've gotten a contract with Treviso or Zebre, or even a lesser French side (I.e. whoever got promoted from pro d2)

 

[psychic duck]

Yeah Mirco has been hiding out in Italian domestic rugby with Rovigo.

Agreed on Allan, Orquera is just way too inconsistent he was brilliant against France last year but than dire against the Scots the very next week. Burton was a medicocre game managing type FH who was effective enough against lower Tier teams but not good enough at 6N level.

Orquera has been dire for nearly his own career apart from that game. Allan missed a dozen kicks in the Argentina game last November, still a way off every other countries fly halves. Italy's fly halves are worse than some Tier 2 nations, and the worst bit about it is that they haven't even produced them themselves, they poach fly halves and they are still crap. Who was the last fly half to play who went through the Italian system? Riccardo Bocchino? Embarrassing.

 

[psychic duck]

I'm presuming through choice?
I know he's hotheaded and not as young as he was, but I'm sure he could've gotten a contract with Treviso or Zebre, or even a lesser French side (I.e. whoever got promoted from pro d2)

He got long term injuries two seasons in a row. By the time it was May/June and teams were signing players, he hadn't played a game since November 2012 which is probably why there were no takers.

 

[Big Ewis]

Allan should secure himself as first choice 10 this 6N, he's looked very good for USAP, certainly far better than anything Italy has had to offer in a while (bar a game or two last year).

:lol: I love how you watch the USAP just coz your parents live in Perpignan !

 

[LittleGuy]

Orquera has been dire for nearly his own career apart from that game. Allan missed a dozen kicks in the Argentina game last November, still a way off every other countries fly halves. Italy's fly halves are worse than some Tier 2 nations, and the worst bit about it is that they haven't even produced them themselves, they poach fly halves and they are still crap. Who was the last fly half to play who went through the Italian system? Riccardo Bocchino? Embarrassing.

A good FH(s) since Dominguez probably would have led them to more victories in the International arena, especially with their scrum and set piece winning them piles of penalties at periods and the tight nature of many 6N contests. It's been absoutely a dreadful position for them I agree PD.

Some of the names they've been through.

Oquera - woefully inconsistent, plays scatty and makes poor decisions.
Burton - Pretty much the opposite of Orquera, was way too conservative and a poor distributor, but at least he brought the kicking boots to work and usually didn't cost Italy games on his own
Botes - Average scrumhalf, terrible flyhalf.
Gower - Had a great League career and legendary drinking stories. Never got settled at all in Union.
Marcato - More of a utility back, equally poor in all positions....
Scanavacca - 11 caps spread over eight years pretty much says it all.
Pez - Journeyman who never reached anywhere near his potential
de Marigny - Can't remember if Italy used him much at FH, if they did than it's obvious why I forgot.
Wakarua - Kicked well against Canada in the 2003 RWC, basically did nothing else.

I've probably missed a couple including possibly McLean playing out of position but dear lord thats a crap list there.

 

[Draggs]

I think duck and I have mentioned what a new Troncon and Dominguez would add every year, certainly a true point. Mirco is ****, always has been. Vendetti is better on the wing, and would be there if not injured.

Ambrosini hasn't really worked out has he?

 

[psychic duck]

A good FH(s) since Dominguez probably would have led them to more victories in the International arena, especially with their scrum and set piece winning them piles of penalties at periods and the tight nature of many 6N contests. It's been absoutely a dreadful position for them I agree PD.

Some of the names they've been through.

Oquera - woefully inconsistent, plays scatty and makes poor decisions.
Burton - Pretty much the opposite of Orquera, was way too conservative and a poor distributor, but at least he brought the kicking boots to work and usually didn't cost Italy games on his own
Botes - Average scrumhalf, terrible flyhalf.
Gower - Had a great League career and legendary drinking stories. Never got settled at all in Union.
Marcato - More of a utility back, equally poor in all positions....
Scanavacca - 11 caps spread over eight years pretty much says it all.
Pez - Journeyman who never reached anywhere near his potential
de Marigny - Can't remember if Italy used him much at FH, if they did than it's obvious why I forgot.
Wakarua - Kicked well against Canada in the 2003 RWC, basically did nothing else.

I've probably missed a couple including possibly McLean playing out of position but dear lord thats a crap list there.

Terrible list and only 2 of them are Italian. I remember they tried Masi at 10 once as well.

Their entire backline looks pretty weak actually. Mirco recalled, but the other veterans Canale and Masi both dropped and Venditti who's decent is absent. Who's Guglielmo Palazzani by the way? And how does Garcia keep getting picked when he's one of the worst defensive 12's in international rugby?

I've been saying this for ages, but take Parisse, Zanni, Ghiraldini and Castro out and that squad looks very ordinary, and all of those will likely retire in a bunch as well. I fear for Italy that they've had a Golden Generation in the pack of Lo Cicero/Perugini, Ghiraldini, Castro, Bortolami (pre 2009), Zanni, Bergamasco (pre 2009) and Parisse but not achieved potential due to a succession of clowns at 10. That pack alone competes well with some of the elite sides in world rugby, but how often have we seen Orquera or Pez get run through 20 dozen times, half back experiments gone wrong like Mauro at 9 and Botes or Masi at 10 or wayward goal kicking?

It's a shame as when Italy were rising in the 90's they had some good backs like Troncon, Dominguez and Francescato.

 

[Aedaphon]

Let's be fair- Mauro at 9 was a dire situation that no one really wanted to happen. Still possibly the worst cap in history though (although Monye at 15 anyone?)

Italy wouldn't even have needed a great fly-half to make win games, just a consistent kicker could have caused a lot of upsets. I'll be fairly upset if Parisse ends his captaincy without anything major to his name, he's a truly world class player that shines like... well a diamond in ****.

 

[LittleGuy]

Ryan Smith at #10 for Canada against Japan at the 2007 RWC is another legendarily bad cap.

 

[Amobokoboko]

Hmm, side doesn't look that strong. It will be very difficult to achieve similar success like the one they had last year.

 

[Big Ewis]

yeah btw I predict a terrible 6N for Italy.
Here's their calendar this year:
1 at Cardiff
2 at Paris
3 vs Scotland
4 at Dublin
5 vs England

Yes I said last year I thought Italy would beat England in 2014, but I might just have to restrain that notion for a bit.
They've had a terrible, shhitty year. Played like absolute cacas the whole way from summer til November 2013. They've only got two home matches, as if they could afford it, and though realistically Scotland they can beat, that honestly looks like the only victory they're getting this year.

They're losing in Cardiff, let's please not even discuss this. France will be focused and looks really good on paper and will not lose to Italy in Paris. Not happening. Scotland in Rome is well within reach, but then they're getting a revenge spanking at the hands of the angry Irish and then they host England.
Realistically, I predict the one victory. Against Scotland at home.

 

[Big Ewis]

Update: I might opt for the 0 win for them unfortunately this year. What do you guys on here reckon ?
I'm saying they might come close a few times there, but they won't win any of those away fixtures, and I have a feeling Scotland will take this one on the road as it's their easiest game of the tournament and are a better team as of right now, and this is going to sound strange but I'm going to hang onto that upset of England, ultimately. I really have a feeling it'll happen.
Italy gets frustrated of not winning a single game. Might come close in either Cardiff, Paris or Dublin, and against Scotland if they lose it'll be close. They'll feel utterly frustrated and will want to give it their all in that last confrontation, and it might turn out to be something à la Italy-France-2011 but with England..

 

[Big Ewis]

(not a triple post !...)

Hey check dis out, their new kit:

 

[Amobokoboko]

I would give them the benefit of the doubt. They have indeed one of the weaker sides but still some quality players in there. If they can play their underdog role well we might see something spectacular.

 

[Big Ewis]

I would give them the benefit of the doubt. They have indeed one of the weaker sides but still some quality players in there. If they can play their underdog role well we might see something spectacular.

hah !! "spectacular" is really quite the last word I'd go to reach for in deep pool of adjectives for Italy. They have enough on paper and the right coach and Rugby culture to be at least competitive right now. 2013 was disgraceful for them, I really hope for them they do well but I can't see it happening. As things are right now, they're getting 0 or 1 win, nothing more. Unless they change their form like they magically do every once in a while...

 

[Maverick1987]

hah !! "spectacular" is really quite the last word I'd go to reach for in deep pool of adjectives for Italy. They have enough on paper and the right coach and Rugby culture to be at least competitive right now. 2013 was disgraceful for them, I really hope for them they do well but I can't see it happening. As things are right now, they're getting 0 or 1 win, nothing more. Unless they change their form like they magically do every once in a while...

I think they won more games that France last year ........

 

[Big Ewis]

I think they won more games that France last year ........

haha but they didn't play NZ - FOUR TIMES. And we didn't get annihilated by Scotland, Australia, South Africa, Samoa etc...or lose at home to a sinking Argentinian squad, they did.