IRFU offer Connacht new backing to boost performance ...

[munstermuffin]

I can guarantee Munster won't let Nagle or Sherry go. That is a fact but I understand your views and while I agree with you I think the situation has changed slightly and well the likes of Nagle and Sherry here I think would rather stay because unlike before the youngsters are getting opportunities and well they understand it at 23/24 that the breakthrough should come.

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

I'd never put an age on when a player should make a breakthrough. I disagree with saying they "understand it's at 23/24 that a breakthrough should some". For example, Andrew Conway is 19 and has scored 2 tries in 3 appearances this season. Craig Gilroy is also 19 and has 4 tries in 2 games for Ulster. Rhys Ruddock won his 1st cap for Ireland as a 19 year old in the summer. He's now 20 and playing regularly for Leinster. So is Dominic Ryan. Keith Earls was a Lion at 21. Should they have sat on their heels for a couple more years? If they're good enough to play, they're old enough to play.

Also it's not a case of not letting Nagle or Sherry go. It's more a case of do they want significantly more game time. Both have had a taste of it this year and no doubt they want it on a more regular basis. If they're out of contract and feel they're good enough to start regularly, they'll move west and Munster can do nothing about it. Leinster won't want to lose Jack McGrath since he's featured in a number of squads this year but if Connacht offer him more chances, he'd be right to move there. I've no doubt that Leinster didn't want to lose Jamie Hagan and Munster didn't want to lose Sean Cronin but both those players wanted to play. Who can blame them? Nobody wants to end up like Donnacha Ryan or Kieran Lewis in waiting for their chance but it never comes.

 

[munstermuffin]

Well Snoop I not saying anything about age in terms of starts but some players have talent that will shine and they break in but out of all them O'Brien Earls and maybe Gilroy are only ones that would be near a starting XV that is full strength. On top of gametime issue unlike before our youngsters get 4/5 ML games and well a run in the B&I cup as well as the 3 Inter Pro games. It's not like before where if you didn't play with Munster main team your forgotten.
And well if Connacht have a revolving door of players coming and going then simply that is bad for them because they need stability more than anyone

Also on if good enough they old enough. I agree but do you think Ruddock deserved to be capped. I don't because he hadn't earned it, he was only in because of the amount of injuries and the refusal to pick Quinny (Which was correct call)

But don't get me wrong I'm all for Connacht getting a better team and having 4 Irish teams performing to their maximum ability but when you really think about how this will work I do struggle to find how this strengthens Connacht for the longterm.
I would like to see Munster Leinster and Ulster trim players down and free these to Connacht but I want the lads that go there be wanting to be there for the long haul and to be passionate about the jersey and try not only challenge for an Irish jersey but to make Connacht a Heineken Cup team. But I don't want lads thinking oh I'll go up get my experience have a good time and expect it to be a joke

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

I'll try address all those points.

I'm not talking about starting in a first choice XV week in week out. I'm talking about getting regular game time in the Magners League due to squad rotation and international call ups. Ian Nagle won't play for Munster again until the 6 Nations comes around (if he even features then). He's good enough to be starting every week for Connacht now. Yet another season of B&I Cup and A rugby will do him no good. He needs to move up a level. Connacht can offer him that now and next season. Munster can't. Why settle for 4 or 5 ML games and a smattering of A games when you can start 20+ games in the ML and Amlin Cup for the westies?

I agree that a revolving door of players won't help Connacht. An influx of new talent is needed to bolster the squad but not at the cost of their stars leaving.

Ruddock was fortunate to be capped. Even allowing for that, he's just turned 20 and has played 9 games for Leinster. There's no point in him waiting until he's 23 or 24 for his chance when he's capable of seizing his opportunity now. Serving your apprenticeship in rugby is an idea which should have gone out with Eddie O'Sullivan.

Getting back to your last point (because it's a very good one), perhaps something can be done. Hypothetically the IRFU could implement a player draft. Let's say that all year 1 and 2 academy players are protected by their home province (ie they can't be picked by another team). That team then nominates another 25 players who it can also protect. The excess players enter a pool and the 4 provinces pick who they want from it- Connacht as the lowest ranking team in the previous season's Magners League pick first, then Ulster, then Munster and finally Leinster. The process repeats itself. It would have the effect of rebalancing provincial squads to some degree rather than seeing one province stockpile talent.

 

[munstermuffin]

Snoop I agree with that draft idea and misunderstood about starts issue. And while I agree Nagle would benefit from time at Connacht I'm looking at it from Munsters view not the player. Also I see it every day and these young guys are easily persuaded to stay here and stick it out as opposed to venture for pastures new.
While I agree with you fully I do ask will the IRFU also supply extra funding too for Connacht because they will need that too but I'd much rather Connacht get a core of talent now and try develope a team now and be smart not this loan stuff of players not knowing are they coming or going.

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

If I was in the IRFU and trying to boost Connacht, I'd attempt to do this:

1. Brett Wilkinson, Sean Cronin, John Muldoon and Gavin Duffy are in Declan Kidney's plans at present. Fionn Carr, Frank Murphy, Jamie Hagan and Ian Keatley are Ireland A contention. These players must be encouraged to remain where they are rather than be picked up by the other provinces. It would show that playing for Connacht is a viable pathway to an Ireland career rather than merely being a development province.

2. Cut away the dead wood. Connacht have a decent first XV and very little to back it up. Tony McGahan swept away Munster's back up players who were deemed surplus to requirements. The benefits of it are now showing 18 months on. Eric Elwood must be given the freedom to do the same.

3. Encourage the players I've mentioned over and over to move west to boost their development short term and international prospects longer term.

4. Get Connacht A in the B&I Cup offering young Connacht born and bred players a clearer pathway to the top. Play these games around the province to boost support outside Galway.

5. Top up on quality experienced players from around the globe. Much like how John Langford had a massive positive influence back in the day, the right import (or two) would have a positive effect on the reinvigorated development process.

6. Improve facilities or get the hell out of the Sportsground. The "if you build it they will come" philosophy worked for Munster with the new Thomond Park proving a roaring success. Proper matchday facilities which are being improved upon all the time have helped see Leinster's fan base sky rocket. Ulster didn't improve the Ravenhill experience and have gone from Ireland's best supported team to the second worst. Connacht's home ground needs to be redeveloped for added comfort and income opportunities or they need to find a new one.

 

[munstermuffin]

Agreed with all of that Snoop.

 

[Peat]

A little late to this but...

Nevin Spence has been in a lot of Ulster 23s recently. He covers 11-14 and I think might be keeping hold of the 23 shirt for the rest of the season. He certainly features in our 2nd choice XV, either as a second choice wing or second choice OC.

More over, do Connacht really need a young outside centre? They've got a very good one in Eoin Griffin. I know judging from their U20 performances last year which one I'd prefer.

Ulster at least at the moment have very little spare to give Connacht. There's a few good players there who could go - Bryan Young is now (or will be shortly) 3rd choice loosehead, could probably be replaced by Jerry Cronin and would boost Connacht. Likewise, we could let go of Kyriacou and promote Niall Annett. Aaaand maybe Ryan Caldwell's a little too good to be 4th choice lock. But I like having 4 good locks. After that, hmm... I think thats it.

I mean sure, they can have TJ Anderson and Tommy Seymour, but I don't think thats going to do much for them. Adam Macklin? Why on earth would they want a tighthead who can't scrummage? I suppose it would be nice if they developed him for us, but if I was Connacht I'd tell Ulster to go develop him a little in AIL first.

At the end of the day, I don't see what Ulster can usefully offer to strengthen their squad right now without seriously biting into our own depth. We could send them some youngsters to train up, but whats wrong with Qualter/McKeon/Conneelly/Spring/Dolan/Griffin/O'Halloran? Connacht have some useful youngsters themselves, in fact I think they had more players in the most recent U20 squad than Munster. We could send them the more serious, near it youngsters on loan (there's no sodding way we'd want to lose Spence or Gilroy long term), but even then - are they better, and does a ever rotating list of loan players really help them?

I dunno. I'm slightly worried about what it could mean for Ulster, skeptical about good intentions in general and skeptical who these players are going to be and why they're going there. Its not like Connacht haven't been holding their hands out already. I really hope this support comes through for them, they don't deserve being shat on, but in general this commitment seems a very nebulous thing with obvious weaknesses and I'm curious to see what shape it takes.

p.s. They can have Niall O'Connor as well.