Ireland v New Zealand

[Sam Owen]

Completely disagree with this - the Samoan team that played Ireland, was probably the strongest team that Samoa have put on the park since the last RWC. I completely agree with Gavin - man for man, this Samoan team is strong, it is just that they really lack any playing time together, hence play more as a bunch of individuals than as a team. If Samoa can keep the core of this team together for 5-6 games they have the potential beat most teams in world rugby. The Samoan team that lost to Connacht was almost a complete 'B' team, so really tells us nothing about the strength of the top Samoan team.



Yes, Samoa just won the IRB Pacific Nations Cup for 2010, however at the start of the tournament they had a whole bunch of new players who had not played together, so really struggled. In there final game of the tournament they beat Fiji by 25 points, which showed what the team is capable given time together to gel. The team touring the Northern Hemisphere is much stronger again than the Samoan team that played in the PNC...

I really don't think you can read too much into the Ireland v Samoa game, as the Ireland team wasn't even a full strength. I'd say a full strength Ireland team will give the AB's a good game, though do think the AB's should win in the end by 15-20 points.

Absolute, pinpoint correct IMO. Thats a very good summary of how it is darwin for both Ireland and Samoa.

 

[munstermuffin]

I fear for this game. New Zealand could tear us to shreds. Keith Earls is available for Munster tomorro so probability is he will be an unused sub again which is a disgrace or not in 22. Geordan Murphy has been added to squad but think Irish staff afraid to drop Kearney. John Hayes will be starting at 3. Cullen not included and well if we get beaten badly it'll really hurt confidence

 

[lynam1104]

I sear to go if John ******* Hayes starts i will officially support the AB's in this game.

 

[munstermuffin]

And to top it all off The All Blacks report a clean bill of health. That tank SBW is in amazing form and I expect that tear away beast of a wild animal Nonu to be back in team this week. Let's just hope we keep score down because they are capable of doing damage from 1 - 15 and from anywhere on pitch

 

[Jer Mac]

I was absolutely tearing what hair id left out during and after the Samoan game and then went into mini depression after hearing the England result and watching the ABs deestroy a handy scottish outfit, at home! It doesnt bode well for our lot who are devoid of any confidence at the moment.

New Zealand are Samoa TDI-GTI and then some, organised and ruthless to boot.. We are regressing at a rate of knots as far as i can see unless Kidney has some wacky game plan up his sleeve. When i hear his after analysis of "We tried things"

What thigns were they now Declan?

the endless wrap arounds that are lateral, telegraphed, smoke signalled and delivered with little timing and little skill. BOD picking the ball up at the back of rucks as if he is a flanker, lock and prop.(Get out to the centre BOD and line break lad or create) Bowe (our most dangerous player) counter attacking straight back to where all the traffic is as opposed to beating a man near space... Court being handed his ass at Loosehead.. (I said here last week, he is falling between two stools as he isnt being afforded time to play in one position, could be a half competant tighthead)

I respect Kidney and believe him to be the man for Irish rugby but he must be more respectful of viewers and paying fans. The problems are as follows imo:

Set piece: Dodegy lineout where we have one lock who can catch it.. Crap scrum where we conceeded 4 pens and 4 frees. People are giving out about Heaslip.. How can the man play with no platform..

Breakdown: I am all up for playing O Brien and believed it should have been for Wallace but we still have no recognised forager. no player who gets down and dirty out of sight and this is killing us. Add to that our lack of phyisicality and intensity and we are dead rubber against the top 4-5 sides. We are being eaten alive at the breakdown.

Back Play: Is this Gaffneys fault? Wrap arounds and blind pop passes... its cowardly attacking.. Why cant our guys attempt to step past people or run around them or are they just not good enough. run clever lines through gaps. We are not punching holes, not attacking the gain line, not creating any go forward ball, not to mind quick ball. O gara is lying too deep and our skills look awful..

these are the three critical areas for me in which we must improve to even compete againsts the best backrow, best outhalf and best back three in world rugby.. We cannot kick to them (read a stat that ABs scored 50% of their tries from their own half in the TN), we cannot isolate ourselves at contact and we cannot give them a solid platform 20-30 odd times in a match (we can barely win our own setpiece not to mind attacking theirs.

I believe Ireland at their ultimate best are still ten points worse than the All-Blacks at their optimum so on this basis i am saying less than 20 would be viewed as a success, especially if we get sexton playing and learning, develope some game plan and set piece, play to our strengths which should be guts and heart with hoenst endeavor and clever plays. forget about the result and just go out to play irish rugby. My team to achieve this with one eye on the future would be:

15. Fitz. (positioning dodge but that will come. should be afforded more time)
14. Bowe (need to bring him off the wing 2-3 times a half.get him on the ball)
13. BOD (is never going to be moved to 12, but needs to play his position and needs to create)
12. Darcy (purely because Wallace cannot defend)
11. Earls (Trimble cant handle, this guy is irelands best counter attacking back and finisher 8 tries in 10 caps or soething like that, but is playing v aussies..puke)
10 Sexton (O gara is the man but this guy has to learn and against the best he will)
9 Stringer (we have no one else..Youngs made be sick he is so good)
8 Heaslip (needs to man the f**k up and play like he can, would be helped with a solid scrum)
7 Wallace/Leamy (Hard lines on O Brien who id play v the argies but either of these guys are ahead of him. We need wallys ball carrying but Leamys intensity)
6 Ferris. (Hel raise his game for this i hope. could be the best 6 in the game if he pulls his head from the clouds)
5 Cullen. (Need his leadership and linout calling. Toner to deputise)
4 Ryan (Doc needs a break to renergise and a kick up the arse)
3 Court/Ross (the bull is gone. Court will start and leave him at TH)
2 Cronin (Best is a better scrummager but cant throw up not to mind throw darts)
1 Healy (because there is no one else. He better start learning fast.)



Rant over!

 

[lynam1104]

I would have the same team with Toner in for Ryan Toner was good in the line out last week.

 

[munstermuffin]

I like that team except for 12 spot but like you I really couldn't say who deserves it. On the game Saturday I know John Hayes is a starter. Looking forward to Borlaise tomorrow though as he has looked well in training last few days.
Earls is with us tomorrow and while I'm delighted that he is with us but think it a disgrace how he has been utilised and treated by Ireland. It no surprise that he wants to be involved in this game more than with Ireland in Aviva. I think the passion players show for Munster and Leinster is amazing but it gone from Irish camp now and unless it is revived we are in trouble

 

[lynam1104]

Is it ok to hope john Hayes picks up an injury then, but knowing Deccie it would be Buckley coming in for him not Ross or Court. I wish we would use Earls he has such potential as he showed in the Six nations and AI's last year.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

It's mad how Earls has been treated by the Ireland set up. After the Lions tour he was billed as the next big thing, the next BOD etc. then he's been slowly worked out of the team
He's on the bench able to cover almost a third of the entire team, but is just left sitting there getting splinters in his arse

 

[Duckdee]

It's mad how Earls has been treated by the Ireland set up. After the Lions tour he was billed as the next big thing, the next BOD etc. then he's been slowly worked out of the team
He's on the bench able to cover almost a third of the entire team, but is just left sitting there getting splinters in his arse

That makes him the new Geordan Murphy.

 

[munstermuffin]

Earls is playing with his true team tomorrow.
Amazing how he can make a Lions tour, did pretty well in games he played there scoring and been a threat yet Irish management think very little about him it seems.
Realistically when we requested for Keith to be available for Aus game we were expecting to be rejected as we expected him to be a serious contender for a spot but well it clear what will happen at World Cup. Our poor use of these Internationals will come back to haunt us like I am a big fan of BOD but he is in serious decline physically and well he will be history after World Cup but we should be protecting him and not using him all the time but for some reason we won't use games to try new faces instead of abusing the mans body. I glad he Leinster because come the Heineken Cup double header with Clermont his body will be worn

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

Ireland are playing poorly.NZ are playing well. NZ by 25 points

 

[Muzzy]

oddly Ireland seem to play better against NZ when they play us down in NZ, every time we play Ireland at their ground we thrash them. in the past every NH tour i've always thought to myself Ireland would be the toughest team for NZ on the tour and every time i've been wrong, so this time if nz choose to field a strong team i think we'll beat them by 30 or more

Completely disagree with this - the Samoan team that played Ireland, was probably the strongest team that Samoa have put on the park since the last RWC.

and how did Samoa do in that RWC again? jk but yeah it was a strong samoan team and the fact they only lost by 10 and nearly won is impressive imo because the island teams have always struggled in the NH tours, i don't even know the last time an island team ever beat one of the 6 nations teams on an end of year tour and that includes italy, but rather than wins the main thing is the island teams are developing players and getting experience as a team

I completely agree with Gavin - man for man, this Samoan team is strong, it is just that they really lack any playing time together, hence play more as a bunch of individuals than as a team. If Samoa can keep the core of this team together for 5-6 games they have the potential beat most teams in world rugby. The Samoan team that lost to Connacht was almost a complete 'B' team, so really tells us nothing about the strength of the top Samoan team.

Yes, Samoa just won the IRB Pacific Nations Cup for 2010, however at the start of the tournament they had a whole bunch of new players who had not played together, so really struggled. In there final game of the tournament they beat Fiji by 25 points, which showed what the team is capable given time together to gel. The team touring the Northern Hemisphere is much stronger again than the Samoan team that played in the PNC...

I really don't think you can read too much into the Ireland v Samoa game, as the Ireland team wasn't even a full strength. I'd say a full strength Ireland team will give the AB's a good game, though do think the AB's should win in the end by 15-20 points.

both fiji and tonga had second string teams against what was close to samoas best team, the samoan team in the PNC wasn't too different from the one they have now and Fiji's team were almost entirely local fijian club based players. yes samoa hadn't had time to gel but neither did the other island teams

 

[Jer Mac]

Earls is playing with his true team tomorrow.
Amazing how he can make a Lions tour, did pretty well in games he played there scoring and been a threat yet Irish management think very little about him it seems.
Realistically when we requested for Keith to be available for Aus game we were expecting to be rejected as we expected him to be a serious contender for a spot but well it clear what will happen at World Cup. Our poor use of these Internationals will come back to haunt us like I am a big fan of BOD but he is in serious decline physically and well he will be history after World Cup but we should be protecting him and not using him all the time but for some reason we won't use games to try new faces instead of abusing the mans body. I glad he Leinster because come the Heineken Cup double header with Clermont his body will be worn

agree 100% here munsterm..

just off the ABs for a sec. just saw the munster team named..Borlaisse in.. looking forward to seeing that.. Just wondering what are your thoughts on Ian Nagle? What sort of lock are we going to see here? And how highly is young Paddy Butler rated (i know hes not in the squad)??. i saw him briefly last year and he reminded me of a young leamy accept better..typical munster number 8..Thought he would have made the breakthrough as i found him better than irish teammates ruddock and ryan...

 

[munstermuffin]

Butler will be a fine player and not far off breaking through.
Ian Nagle is still learning his time but expect him to be a fixture in team in future.
Borlaise looks good in training but slightly exhausted as he only arrived thursday and has a long season behind him.

And on All Blacks game D. Ryan has been cited and looks likely to miss game

 

[coonor]

Ireland are playing poorly.NZ are playing well. NZ by 25 points

You've described it very simply but I 100% agree with you. Its very simple if we are not playing well we need to change something. We have talented props but Ireland have failed to help them mature. Court, Ross and Buckley could all be very good props and we wouldn't have this problem if they were blooded 5 years ago. Cullen is needed as DOC is showing no leadership, lineout skills or ball carying capability. I think our back row is doing well considering how poor the front five are doing but because of the front five our back row can not perform to their best. I think Stringer has improved our game but you can see he is for dying for quicker ball. O'Gara is a great option but not for this game. With the platform Sexton can bring the best out of the backs. O'Gara is a great tactical kicker but we need to keep possession and he is a defencive weakness. I would have personally liked to see BOD at 12 and Earls at 13 as I think they combonation could be brilliantly and what do we have to lose by trying this. I think Kearney is poor for Ireland but is doing well for Leinster so its hard to know how heis really going to play like. I think Fitz is the most threatning player with ball in hand and Tommy bowes defence has greatly improved but neither of them get enough ball.

New Zealand's main weakness is the scrum but I'm sure they will not have a problem there on the weekend. The way Ireland are playing I think New Zealand are better in all departments. Our attack is unlikely to amount to much and our ball carriers are likely to be over powered. Errors are far to common and NZ will punish us for that.

On paper this should be a close game which Ireland could win if they pick their best squad considering injuries but due to poor form I hink Ireland will lose by 25-30 points.

 

[Black Heart]

New Zealand's main weakness is the scrum but I'm sure they will not have a problem there on the weekend. The way Ireland are playing I think New Zealand are better in all departments. Our attack is unlikely to amount to much and our ball carriers are likely to be over powered. Errors are far to common and NZ will punish us for that.

On paper this should be a close game which Ireland could win if they pick their best squad considering injuries but due to poor form I hink Ireland will lose by 25-30 points.

This is rubbish. The All Black scrum is perfectly fine when Owen Franks and Tony Woodcock are propping. The problem in the last two games has been these Northern Hermisphere refs who seem to enjoy taking about 10 seconds just to call engage. They need to take a leaf out of Caplain's book and just get on with it so we don't have 15 minutes of wasted gametime ressetting scrums.

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

The issues over setting the scrum come about due to an IRB directive overseen by the disastrous Paddy O'Brien. The sooner he's turfed out of his job the better. I'm sure I'm not the only person sick of all his tinkering with law interpretations, overt criticism of referees (Stuart Dickinson is a plank but he didn't deserve his public humiliation from his boss) and calling out props for "illegal scrummaging" when they dare to get the better of Tony Woodcock.

It's not merely refs from this part of the world who are taking their time; the ref when Ireland played Samoa at the weekend was a kiwi. I think blaming the ref for these scrum woes is a crock of ****. The scrum is reffed the same for both sides. Ireland struggled not because of the referee but because they were poor.

Edit- I agree with your point that the current scrum laws are draining the life out of the game.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I remember it came up on the screen during the England/Australia match that in the first half 9minutes of it was scrumming/resetting scrums etc.
That's almost a quarter of the half just for scrums! It's not even as if there were a ton of knockons or anything!

 

[coonor]

This is rubbish. The All Black scrum is perfectly fine when Owen Franks and Tony Woodcock are propping. The problem in the last two games has been these Northern Hermisphere refs who seem to enjoy taking about 10 seconds just to call engage. They need to take a leaf out of Caplain's book and just get on with it so we don't have 15 minutes of wasted gametime ressetting scrums.

What I mean is that the AB scrum is one of their weakest points I'm not saying its poor it is definatly internationally class but what other thing in the AB game is weaker. Against England the main thing england beat NZ in was the scrum and I can't think of much else hence my point being the scrum is not NZ strongest asset.