Ireland Squad 2018/2019

[Bada-Bing!]

Question: do Irish fans rate this squad as better placed compared to the 2009 Grand Slam winning side/squad who went Onto top their pool in NZ RWC 2011 only to get knocked out by WG's Wales side?

Top Pool A or finish second and it's v ABs of SA either way in the QFs next year.

 

[munstermuffin]

Question: do Irish fans rate this squad as better placed compared to the 2009 Grand Slam winning side/squad who went Onto top their pool in NZ RWC 2011 only to get knocked out by WG's Wales side?

Top Pool A or finish second and it's v ABs of SA either way in the QFs next year.

Yes. 2009 possibly had a better 15 but major drop then. Now we have squad

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Current - 09

Healy > Horan
Best < Flannery
Furlong > Hayes
Ryan > O'Callaghan
Disputed < O'Connell
O'Mahoney < Ferris
Wallace unless prime O'Brien comes out to play
Stander < Heaslip
Murray > O'Leary
Sexton > O'Gara
Stockdale < Fitzgerald
Henshaw > D'Arcy
Ringrose < O'Driscoll
Earls < Bowe
Kearney < Kearney

So yeah, the 09 starters nick it imo but our halfbacks are currently quite a bit better than 09. I don't think 09 means that much though because they were at best the 2nd best team in the world in 09 but in the following two years poor coaching, selection as well as time really depleted the standard in the squad, in '10 and '11 they went 3/5.

The competition isn't as strong at this time in my opinion, NZ included, and the age profile and depth, as mm pointed out, is far better. I think we're ready to take the RWC as it comes to us and build up momentum, in the last two we had massively intense pool games and made easier games more difficult than they needed to be. NZ or SA will be a tight affair but the team has the beating of either of them on their day.

 

[munstermuffin]

Current - 09

Healy > Horan
Best < Flannery
Furlong > Hayes
Ryan > O'Callaghan
Disputed < O'Connell
O'Mahoney < Ferris
Wallace unless prime O'Brien comes out to play
Stander < Heaslip
Murray > O'Leary
Sexton > O'Gara
Stockdale < Fitzgerald
Henshaw > D'Arcy
Ringrose < O'Driscoll
Earls < Bowe
Kearney < Kearney

So yeah, the 09 starters nick it imo but our halfbacks are currently quite a bit better than 09. I don't think 09 means that much though because they were at best the 2nd best team in the world in 09 but in the following two years poor coaching, selection as well as time really depleted the standard in the squad, in '10 and '11 they went 3/5.

The competition isn't as strong at this time in my opinion, NZ included, and the age profile and depth, as mm pointed out, is far better. I think we're ready to take the RWC as it comes to us and build up momentum, in the last two we had massively intense pool games and made easier games more difficult than they needed to be. NZ or SA will be a tight affair but the team has the beating of either of them on their day.

On this part, I think it has to be said is huge issue. (going off topic a bit)

The standard of international games has dropped massively since 2009 or so.
Like even the Lions concept is a bit dead unless the tour NZ as Aus and SA are gone very poor.

Ireland are still up to a standard that will compete with the All Blacks. SA are doing ok like could flash brilliance in 1 game but revolt back to crap the next day.
England are mixing it too much that there is no stability there in some areas. I do fear international rugby is suffering due to club game getting more marketable.

Back on this. I think personally the 09 team as a whole 1 to maybe 20. Like Leamy for example was a capable and up to it replacement backrow, after that we were down to the cupboard.
Earls was 23rd man for backs despite very little exposure at time. If ROG went down Paddy Wallace was 10.

Now Murray is doubt and we are say which of the following, if a backrow goes down we can argue who will come in the depth is that crazy, if Sexton falls we have 2 or 3 options, in the backline we can mix selection and basically come heavy attritioned tournaments we can rotate the squad and still keep levels high.

 

[Leinster Fan]

Focus is all on the internationals now with Camp Joe presumably starting up at some point this week. If I was picking the squad (and thank God I'm not) I'd have (listed in pecking order):

LH: McGrath, Healy, Kilcoyne
Hooker: Best, Cronin, Scannell
TH: Furlong, Porter, Ryan
Locks: Ryan, Beirne, Henderson, Toner, big gap, Dillanne
6: O'Mahony, Ruddock
7: SOB, Josh Vdf, Leavy
8: Stander, Conan
SH: Cooney, Marmion, McGrath (Murray first obviously if he's fit)
OH: Sexton, Carbery, Byrne
Wings: Earls, Stockdale, Conway, Sweetnam
IC: Henshaw, Aki,
OC: Ringrose, Addison (as likely to play back 3 but I'll put him here), Goggin
FB: Kearney, Larmour

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Focus is all on the internationals now with Camp Joe presumably starting up at some point this week. If I was picking the squad (and thank God I'm not) I'd have (listed in pecking order):

LH: McGrath, Healy, Kilcoyne
Hooker: Best, Cronin, Scannell
TH: Furlong, Porter, Ryan
Locks: Ryan, Beirne, Henderson, Toner, big gap, Dillanne
6: O'Mahony, Ruddock
7: SOB, Josh Vdf, Leavy
8: Stander, Conan
SH: Cooney, Marmion, McGrath (Murray first obviously if he's fit)
OH: Sexton, Carbery, Byrne
Wings: Earls, Stockdale, Conway, Sweetnam
IC: Henshaw, Aki,
OC: Ringrose, Addison (as likely to play back 3 but I'll put him here), Goggin
FB: Kearney, Larmour

I think I'd swap Conway and Larmour. I don't think Larmour is a 15, his positioning and countering leaves much to be desired, he has an awful tendency to get isolated.

 

[Amiga500]

I'm beginning to fear we have a major issue developing at hooker.

Rory Best has rediscovered his throwing yips, our scrum is a mess and he is starting to really slow up (even more) around the pitch.

If Niall Scannell gets a chance in November - and grabs it - I see him as taking significant duties for the 6N and likely starting hooker for the world cup.

 

[Leinster Fan]

I think I'd swap Conway and Larmour. I don't think Larmour is a 15, his positioning and countering leaves much to be desired, he has an awful tendency to get isolated.

I mean right now he's got a long way to go before he's a top level 15 but I'd say it's seen as his long term position. Right now I'd say that at anything above Pro14 level he should be kept on the wing unless it's covering for 10/15 minutes. Don't have anything against him playing 15 (or 13 ) in the league though. It does highlight that Leinster need Kearney but that's for another thread.

I'm beginning to fear we have a major issue developing at hooker.

Rory Best has rediscovered his throwing yips, our scrum is a mess and he is starting to really slow up (even more) around the pitch.

If Niall Scannell gets a chance in November - and grabs it - I see him as taking significant duties for the 6N and likely starting hooker for the world cup.

I'd classify Sexton and O'Mahony as great leaders but flawed captains. We need Best around to stay level headed with the refs. Long term I'd say that Ronan Kelleher is an excellent prospect and obviously Scannell is there as well. I think between Scannell and Cronin we've got enough to do alright if Best doesn't make it to Japan (whether because of injury or just not being up to standard).

It's definitely not anything like our best position though.

 

[profitius]

I'd classify Sexton and O'Mahony as great leaders but flawed captains. We need Best around to stay level headed with the refs. Long term I'd say that Ronan Kelleher is an excellent prospect and obviously Scannell is there as well. I think between Scannell and Cronin we've got enough to do alright if Best doesn't make it to Japan (whether because of injury or just not being up to standard).

It's definitely not anything like our best position though.

Yeah Ronan Kelleher is the best young hooker around. I'm not sure about his throwing yet and it's a position where usually players take a while to reach maturity. Super athlete though.


There are one or two other young hookers around. I'm not sure about McBurney yet. Whatever about talent, he looks like a bit of a loose cannon and Schmidt doesn't like those types.


Niall Scannell has been superb yet picked up another injury. He's fairly injury prone at this stage. He has another brother, Billy, at u19 or U20 level at hooker.

 

[munstermuffin]

Niall will be fine. Possibility to play this week but very fast to get up to speed after ****les.
My biggest fear is RWC has came a year too late for Best. A superb player but is a risk of going out like the Bull did for us. Time waits for no man and as BOD said in a recent Q&A. At his age retiring his body was in bits. Rory is a bit older and in a more attritional position. So it unknown what is left.
Kelleher and Billy Scannell very good but 2 or 3 years away.
Also is Byrne a possibility. A good player who just has bad luck with injuries too

 

[big ginger 8]

McFadden won't be involved anyway, out fifa substantial period with his hamstring apparently.

 

[MikeTheNative]

When do Ireland name their squad? seems a bit odd that they are a lot later than everyone else.

 

[big ginger 8]

When do Ireland name their squad? seems a bit odd that they are a lot later than everyone else.

Thursday, Schmidt aleays waits as long as possible.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

My excitement for this series is reserved totally for the NZ game, the success of the series hinges totally on it. We won't lose to Italy and I don't think there's anything to suggest that Argentina will get their first win on Irish soil this time around so for AIs as good as the last two we need to get beat NZ. It'll be as expected otherwise.

The one thing I do want is to run in tries against Argentina, we reverted back to our old style a little bit against Aus and while I think that's perfectly serviceable I think we need to be able to do both and we were running in tries against good opposition in the 6n.

 

[MikeTheNative]

The fixture list is a bit lacking in ambition although you could say they know how good they are and are targeting that NZ game. Argentina did look a bit better in the Rugby Championship than compared to the Wales tour however I can't see anything other than a comfortable win for Ireland. I imagine it's Schmidt to be giving a few of the younger guys games against Italy and Argentina leading up to a full strength (as much as possible) vs NZ.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Also:

IRFU Strategic Plan 2018-2023

MEN:

• Semi-finals or better at RWC19/RWC23
• 2 or more 6 Nations ***les
• 2 or more European ***les
• 2 or more PRO14 ***les
• 7s qualification for 2020 Olympics
• 7s attain World Series status

 

[munstermuffin]

I wonder will any front line guys go to USA. Hearing alot won't. They'll stay in camp preparing for NZ

 

[Leinster Fan]

Makes sense. No point in flying the likes of Sexton etc over to MURICA to play Italy. Let them stay at home and focus on Nz. Better to learn about younger guys and give less experienced guys a chance to stake their claim.

The record of Argentina always losing in Dublin is long-standing and has survived better Argentina teams and far weaker Ireland teams. The ******* do seem to be pulling off their classic trick of being absolutely s**** for three years and then suddenly being good for the World Cup (AGAIN) though so even if we do beat them I'd back them to do well in Japan.

Cooney surely has to start at 9 if Murray. Can't help but think that Marmion has done very little to justify his constant selection. He's generally been bad (at 9) for Ireland with the exception of an impressive performance off the bench in Aus over the Summer. (The games he played on the wing against England/Aus have probably been his best in green.) Even so there's very little between and McGrath who's good but rarely does anything really impressive. Still McGrath has an established relationship with Sexton which should count for sonething.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

I've always liked Marmion with Sexton but I think any 9 with Sexton looks better. I think Cooney is the best of them but Murray is the only 9 whose job will be more than "do exactly what Johnny tells you". That's why Murray is so good he knows what Johnny wants, sometimes when Johnny doesn't even know what he wants, he's a perfect, cool and sexy wife.

 

[Leinster Fan]

Another point worth noting is that the sex appeal of the Ireland team is down big time with Murray injured, there's an argument that we need Dave Kearney back just to fill the void.