Ireland, 2013 Six Nations

[Peat]

Ok, I feel we need to stop this thread and take in the full beauty of osulli's sig. Don't you ever change it man.

I've just spent the last four minutes watching it and spent two of those laughing. Amazing.

 

[Feicarsinn]

As Peat has said I mentioned it for the World Cup, when a lot of those players, albeit probably not all, will be very much in the mix.

And I don't think an awful lot of those players aren't at Ireland standard currently. In my opinion only Henshaw, Conway, D.Kearney and Jones aren't at a good enough standard currently, with the latter two having been in the mix within the last 2 seasons. O'Halloran, you could argue is not at that level but hes never been given an opportunity even after consistent top performances for that last 2 seasons. If he were a Munster, Ulster or Leinster player people would have been calling for him to have been capped along time ago.

Consider the quality of player that we've had in the back three for the past few years. Luke Fitzgerald, Rob Kearney and Tommy Bowe are all capped Lions. Geordan Murphy was capped too, Denis Hickie was one of the most exciting players we've ever produced, and for a slow man Shane Horgan was incredibly effective.

That's the standard for the Irish back three. None of Trimble, O'Halloran, Conway, D Kearney, Jones will ever approach that level.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Consider the quality of player that we've had in the back three for the past few years. Luke Fitzgerald, Rob Kearney and Tommy Bowe are all capped Lions. Geordan Murphy was capped too, Denis Hickie was one of the most exciting players we've ever produced, and for a slow man Shane Horgan was incredibly effective.

That's the standard for the Irish back three. None of Trimble, O'Halloran, Conway, D Kearney, Jones will ever approach that level.

I agree with you for the most part (I don't think Conway is good enough for pro 12 never mind international) but with a good run of games and no injuries Jones is more than capable back up for Kearney.

 

[Feicarsinn]

I agree with you for the most part (I don't think Conway is good enough for pro 12 never mind international) but with a good run of games and no injuries Jones is more than capable back up for Kearney.

Jones has, as far as I know (and bear in mind I've been largely out of touch) had quite a bit of game time this season and been pretty unimpressive. The full back situation in Ireland is interesting at the moment. Henshaw and Zebo are both recent converts to the position, Payne is not yet IQ, Morris is now playing on the wing, and Dave Kearney can't get in the starting Leinster team. As far as I'm concerned there's a pretty massive drop off after SuperJesus.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Jones has, as far as I know (and bear in mind I've been largely out of touch) had quite a bit of game time this season and been pretty unimpressive. The full back situation in Ireland is interesting at the moment. Henshaw and Zebo are both recent converts to the position, Payne is not yet IQ, Morris is now playing on the wing, and Dave Kearney can't get in the starting Leinster team. As far as I'm concerned there's a pretty massive drop off after SuperJesus.

I completely agree with you but if he can get someway back in form he would be capable back up, Henshaw will be the future of the 15 jersey after "SuperJesus" but when it comes to cover I think we're in a lot more trouble at 10 because after Sexton, Jackson is our next best 10 and I don't think he's international standard yet and we'd be truly ****ed if he got injured.

 

[Amobokoboko]

Curious to see where they will end?

 

[big ginger 8]

Wasn't that the guy who tried to claim the images had been doctored though?


Anyway. Irish rugby squad.

BG8 - see what you mean by lack of options, I just don't think he is one. He's the 4th best lock at Ulster, if that. It would be like picking Flanagan or Foley.

Also, I'd be completely serious about throwing in McSharry and maybe even Henshaw, depending on how he went in training. D'Arcy's been playing well but I still think he's done at international level, while Henshaw looks like a shooting star.

I am a huge fan of McSharry I can not state that enough but he's not ready IMO and D'arcy has another 6n in him. Next year will be McSharry's year. He runs some incredible lines but I've noticed recently is tackling isn't really up to scratch. Let him play Wolfhounds and then in the summer and AI's.

No way on Henshaw yet. He will be there and hopefully for a long time but not yet.

 

[Feicarsinn]

Curious to see where they will end?

Phenomenal post.

I completely agree with you but if he can get someway back in form he would be capable back up, Henshaw will be the future of the 15 jersey after "SuperJesus" but when it comes to cover I think we're in a lot more trouble at 10 because after Sexton, Jackson is our next best 10 and I don't think he's international standard yet and we'd be truly ****ed if he got injured.

Hmm, I've become pretty conservative when it comes to predicting thinks like that. Back in 06' everyone said Trimble would be Ireland 13 by 2011. There are a lot of other examples, but I don't particularly feel like writing another list.

Rob Kearney is 26. That's another 6 years of international rugby he has in him. It'd be foolish to say that one player will definitely be his replacement. Especially when, as BG8 says, Henshaw is just a kid learning the trade.

I am a huge fan of McSharry I can not state that enough but he's not ready IMO and D'arcy has another 6n in him. Next year will be McSharry's year. He runs some incredible lines but I've noticed recently is tackling isn't really up to scratch. Let him play Wolfhounds and then in the summer and AI's.

My reservation towards McSharry is the fact that his distribution game is pretty damn limited. Close him down quick and make sure he can't build up a head of steam and you take him out of the game. Fergus would be my choice at 12 as things stand.

 

[Peat]

My reservation towards McSharry is the fact that his distribution game is pretty damn limited. Close him down quick and make sure he can't build up a head of steam and you take him out of the game. Fergus would be my choice at 12 as things stand.

Obvs you see more of him than me, but the last I've seen of McFadden at 12 (last season mind) he was fairly tunnel-vision and greedy, so I don't see too much difference there.

Hmm, I've become pretty conservative when it comes to predicting thinks like that. Back in 06' everyone said Trimble would be Ireland 13 by 2011. There are a lot of other examples, but I don't particularly feel like writing another list.

Rob Kearney is 26. That's another 6 years of international rugby he has in him. It'd be foolish to say that one player will definitely be his replacement. Especially when, as BG8 says, Henshaw is just a kid learning the trade.

While I agree with you, I'd say its equally rash to rule out O'Halloran or even Conway - both have metric craploads of talent, if developed right they could be as good as the guys named.

 

[Feicarsinn]

Obvs you see more of him than me, but the last I've seen of McFadden at 12 (last season mind) he was fairly tunnel-vision and greedy, so I don't see too much difference there.

Fergus has been on the top of his game recently tbf, probably out best back over the past few weeks. He's played a decent bit in the centre over the past few weeks, and I've been happy enough with him both times. He started ahead of Bod on the weekend (albeit at 13) so that says something.

While I agree with you, I'd say its equally rash to rule out O'Halloran or even Conway - both have metric craploads of talent, if developed right they could be as good as the guys named.

Possibly so. Conway has had a lot of rugby this season, but really hasn't pushed on at all. He's fallen behind both Zebo and Gilroy, and considering that he was supposedly the best of them that's pretty disappointing.

I suppose my gripe with O'Halloran stems from a general dislike of the overhyping Connacht players are receiving at the moment. I've seen Marmion, Henshaw, McSharry, O'Halloran all been touted for caps in the next year or two. The fact is that if all of those guys were good enough then Connacht's back line would be **** hot. It's not though.

 

[big ginger 8]

Possibly so. Conway has had a lot of rugby this season, but really hasn't pushed on at all. He's fallen behind both Zebo and Gilroy, and considering that he was supposedly the best of them that's pretty disappointing.

I suppose my gripe with O'Halloran stems from a general dislike of the overhyping Connacht players are receiving at the moment. I've seen Marmion, Henshaw, McSharry, O'Halloran all been touted for caps in the next year or two. The fact is that if all of those guys were good enough then Connacht's back line would be **** hot. It's not though.

Well em Dan Parks at 10 says a lot. Also a pack that doesn't always give the best platform. Really cut Harlequins open a few times in the first half.

 

[Feicarsinn]

Well em Dan Parks at 10 says a lot. Also a pack that doesn't always give the best platform. Really cut Harlequins open a few times in the first half.

It's not like Connacht don't have some good forwards though mate. White and McCarthy are both excellent players, Johnny O'Connor and John Muldoon both have a lot of caps for Ireland, Willie Faloon is a competent operator, as is Adrian Flavin. While the second row is a weakness, that's the bones of a good pack. Now I know that they've had their fair share of injuries lately, but you'd still expect them to be higher up the table in the Rabo than they are now if all of these players are as good as they're being said to be.

Problem is that in Ireland we love to hype players up. Henshaw played well against Leinster in Galway and people were talking about him playing for Ireland after a game. Conor Murray managed to displace Eoin Reddan based solely on media hype as far as I can see. After a few good performances last season people were talking about Ian Madigan playing 10 for Ireland and shifting the best flyhalf in the Northern Hemisphere out of position despite the glaring faults in the former's game. It's irritating.

 

[DuncTheDoodle]

I've become a big Dave McSharry fan and want to share this with everyone.

OK, bye, I'm going back to where I belong on a Welsh thread now. Nice to get out every now and again.

 

[big ginger 8]

It's not like Connacht don't have some good forwards though mate. White and McCarthy are both excellent players, Johnny O'Connor and John Muldoon both have a lot of caps for Ireland, Willie Faloon is a competent operator, as is Adrian Flavin. While the second row is a weakness, that's the bones of a good pack. Now I know that they've had their fair share of injuries lately, but you'd still expect them to be higher up the table in the Rabo than they are now if all of these players are as good as they're being said to be.

Problem is that in Ireland we love to hype players up. Henshaw played well against Leinster in Galway and people were talking about him playing for Ireland after a game. Conor Murray managed to displace Eoin Reddan based solely on media hype as far as I can see. After a few good performances last season people were talking about Ian Madigan playing 10 for Ireland and shifting the best flyhalf in the Northern Hemisphere out of position despite the glaring faults in the former's game. It's irritating.

Not saying their forwards aren't good. Just that they aren't great at providing a platform. While that may seem like I'm saying they're bad I'm not. Most of their pack are scroungers battlers they'll tackle for ages and are good at attacking opposition ball but apart from McCatrhy and Nauopo I'd say they don't really have any carriers who'll get over the gainline adn their scrum even with White can be quite shaky. Also the team in general really lacks consistency.

Agree about the hyping and clearly I can be quite prone t it myself.

 

[Feicarsinn]

Not saying their forwards aren't good. Just that they aren't great at providing a platform. While that may seem like I'm saying they're bad I'm not. Most of their pack are scroungers battlers they'll tackle for ages and are good at attacking opposition ball but apart from McCatrhy and Nauopo I'd say they don't really have any carriers who'll get over the gainline adn their scrum even with White can be quite shaky. Also the team in general really lacks consistency.Agree about the hyping and clearly I can be quite prone t it myself.

Yeah, fair enough, can't argue with any of that.

 

[coonor]

Consider the quality of player that we've had in the back three for the past few years. Luke Fitzgerald, Rob Kearney and Tommy Bowe are all capped Lions. Geordan Murphy was capped too, Denis Hickie was one of the most exciting players we've ever produced, and for a slow man Shane Horgan was incredibly effective.

That's the standard for the Irish back three. None of Trimble, O'Halloran, Conway, D Kearney, Jones will ever approach that level.

I don't think you can put Fitzgerald and Kearney in the same category as Hickie and even to a certain extent Horgan in terms of international options. I certainly remember people suggesting for Horgan to retire in 2010 after a poor year, in the same way Conway may simply be off form. He clearly has talent and at his age time is on his side. Kind of unfair to limit the ambition of talented players at such a young age. Who would have thought Mike Ross would become arguably Ireland's most important player 5 years ago?

When Kearney, Bowe and Fitzgerald held the back three shirts, Hickie, Murphy and Horgon were all in undeniable regression and in reality not international standard. In contrast every player I mentioned and in addition Payne and Earls (I seemed to forget him), could be at their peak come the next World Cup (Kearney, Bowe, Fitzgerald, Earls) while the rest could be in positions ready to burst onto the scene!

 

[Groundhog]

Ok, I feel we need to stop this thread and take in the full beauty of osulli's sig. Don't you ever change it man.

I've just spent the last four minutes watching it and spent two of those laughing. Amazing.

Appreciate it Bro, it rather blindsided me too.
On the topic of noobs, I really want to see O'Halloran in particular out of the Connacht contingent on the Wolfhounds. I wasn't hugely impressed with Marmion, but god knows he beats Connacht's other options. As for Henshaw, he's 19, not near ready. As for McSharry, he needs a go too, we have nothing to lose by trying him out on the wolfhounds and seeing if he's all he's cracked up to be.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

I don't think you can put Fitzgerald and Kearney in the same category as Hickie and even to a certain extent Horgan in terms of international options. I certainly remember people suggesting for Horgan to retire in 2010 after a poor year, in the same way Conway may simply be off form. He clearly has talent and at his age time is on his side. Kind of unfair to limit the ambition of talented players at such a young age. Who would have thought Mike Ross would become arguably Ireland's most important player 5 years ago?

When Kearney, Bowe and Fitzgerald held the back three shirts, Hickie, Murphy and Horgon were all in undeniable regression and in reality not international standard. In contrast every player I mentioned and in addition Payne and Earls (I seemed to forget him), could be at their peak come the next World Cup (Kearney, Bowe, Fitzgerald, Earls) while the rest could be in positions ready to burst onto the scene!

The thing about Conway though is that he has shown very little promise in a Leinster shirt and almost seems scared on the pitch. He is the sort of player who needs confidence to play and I don't think he has enough confidence in his own ability to make it. I know he's still young but he has been with the Leinster squad for 2.5 seasons and good matches have been few and far between.

Henshaw, O'Halloran and McSharry however have shown a lot of promise, albeit playing with Connacht, and they could have a future.

 

[big ginger 8]

When Conway burst onto the scene though he was pretty good. Has also been out for a long time with injury. Hopefull he can discover some form. It really is unfair to write players off so young even if they are wingers.

 

[Peat]

Fergus has been on the top of his game recently tbf, probably out best back over the past few weeks. He's played a decent bit in the centre over the past few weeks, and I've been happy enough with him both times. He started ahead of Bod on the weekend (albeit at 13) so that says something.

Fairy muff

Possibly so. Conway has had a lot of rugby this season, but really hasn't pushed on at all. He's fallen behind both Zebo and Gilroy, and considering that he was supposedly the best of them that's pretty disappointing.

I suppose my gripe with O'Halloran stems from a general dislike of the overhyping Connacht players are receiving at the moment. I've seen Marmion, Henshaw, McSharry, O'Halloran all been touted for caps in the next year or two. The fact is that if all of those guys were good enough then Connacht's back line would be **** hot. It's not though.

You'll notice I was somewhat reserved with Conway's chances of making it :lol: he does have raw potential though, still might come good.

As for the Connacht kids... yeah, overhyping goes on a lot. But I agree with BG8, the material around them is not conducive to best performance. Also, a backline with a lot of high potential =/= high performance; I was there when Ulster played Jackson, Marshall, Spence and Gilroy against the Dragons a couple of years back. They didn't look like the future of Ulster rugby that people were certain they were, useful but not amazing, but two years on and Gilroy's got a cap and Marshall and Jackson are on the verge of it, which considering Marshall's injury record and Jackson's age and position is damn fine going (and no one can say what would have happened with the fourth ). I'd like to take these youngsters and stick them in a high-performance environment with a good pack and some seasoned heads and see how they go, because I think there's serious talent there.