IRB rule against Pacific Islander's switch

[dullonien]

Players are mainly developed at club level, not international level. Having a few over the hill NZers won't really help develop island teams, other than a short term fix. How long does it continue for, as others have said? Samoa climb to 7th place, what then happens then?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I, for example, have one English parent and one Irish parent. That means those are the options laid out. I was born in England, to an English parent airgo I'm British - although I am more then aware of my background. Had I been born Ireland, every chance is I'd probably consider myself Irish. Technically (I think) I'm eligible for dual nationality, but I couldn't see the point in perusing that.

You are, my girlfriends in the same boat and has an Irish passport but was born and raised in England

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

Bullitt, let it go. To me it's the same. I will try this time to make them understand haha


You can represent either the country where you were born or the country where your parents were born.

If someone is born in England to a French mother, an Italian father and he moves to South Africa for 15 years and then moves along to NZ to play professional rugby there, it's like this:

England is his country of birth, France and Italy are the countries of heritage. South Africa and New Zealand are countries of residence. Being a resident doesn't make you a person with heritage of that country.

England, France and Italy are the possibilties to play for. South Africa and New Zealand aren't. There are no ties to the either of those countries besides being a resident, just a resident and nothing more than a resident.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

Players are mainly developed at club level, not international level. Having a few over the hill NZers won't really help develop island teams, other than a short term fix. How long does it continue for, as others have said? Samoa climb to 7th place, what then happens then?

I think it would help. too many people in my opinion are only looking for the silver bullet, "if it doesn't fix all problems then why bother". injecting the experiance, if nothing else, these guys have would help steer these teams in the right direction

 

[TRF_Olyy]

As an aside, what are the rules for playing for teams within the UK/Great Britain?
Can an English person play for Wales/vice versa? I know a few players born in England play for Scotland, for example

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

Since they are different Unions I think the same rules apply.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

Bullitt, let it go. To me it's the same. I will try this time to make them understand haha


You can represent either the country where you were born or the country where your parents were born.

If someone is born in England to a French mother, an Italian father and he moves to South Africa for 15 years and then moves along to NZ to play professional rugby there, it's like this:

England is his country of birth, France and Italy are the countries of heritage. South Africa and New Zealand are countries of residence. Being a resident doesn't make you a person with heritage of that country.

England, France and Italy are the possibilties to play for. South Africa and New Zealand aren't. There are no ties to the either of those countries besides being a resident, just a resident and nothing more than a resident.

I think everyone knows what your saying...I'm just not sure why the players parents country of birth is more important than either of the one two countries this player knows anything about

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Since they are different Unions I think the same rules apply.

But then how do they know, considering passports are the same?
e.g This is my third year in Wales, i've been on the electoral register here for two, and will be living here at least 18months more, but probably more.
I was born in England to English parents, and spent all my life there up until a few years ago, would I, in theory, be eligible to play for Wales due to this?

 

[Teh Mite]

If you choose to be, yes you would. Which is a total farce.

 

[dullonien]

Bullitt, let it go. To me it's the same. I will try this time to make them understand haha


You can represent either the country where you were born or the country where your parents were born.

If someone is born in England to a French mother, an Italian father and he moves to South Africa for 15 years and then moves along to NZ to play professional rugby there, it's like this:

England is his country of birth, France and Italy are the countries of heritage. South Africa and New Zealand are countries of residence. Being a resident doesn't make you a person with heritage of that country.

England, France and Italy are the possibilties to play for. South Africa and New Zealand aren't. There are no ties to the either of those countries besides being a resident, just a resident and nothing more than a resident.

I understand what you and Bullit are proposing it, I just don't agree with it, nor do I fully understand why your viewpoints are quite so regimented. Afterall why should heritage be more important than that which has directly shaped the person you are?

Edit: nevermind, I thought Bullits reply above was replying to a Olly's earlier post.

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

If people can choose which country to play for, what is the use of having teams representing a country?

 

[Kiwiwomble]

i would say its not about playing for any old team, just acknowledging the different connections players have to more than one country.

I am not for wholesale swapping, was just in favour of LIMITED 1st to 2nd tier swaps

ps. great thread to get started in, cheers for the debate guys

 

[Duckdee]

So who does Tarzan play for?

 

[Kiwiwomble]

So who does Tarzan play for?

might need a DNA test to be sure

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

Why accept swaps in the first place? Test rugby has something magical because of the heritage of players. It shows the country's strength, the country's depth. Tim Visser is an amazing winger but he is from Holland. Why would he be able to play for Scotland? Because he lives there? Other than living there he has no ties to the country.

Look at the German team at the FIFA World Cup last summer...

Dennis Aogo (Nigeria), Serdar Tasci (Turkey), Sami Khedira (Tunesia), Mesut Ozil (Turkey), Lukas Podolski (Poland), Miroslav Klose (Poland), Piotr Trochowski (Poland), Cacau (Brazil), Jerome Boateng (Ghana), Marko Marin (Serbia), Mario Gomez (Spain) are all players who are not commonly seen as Germans. Some of them were born in Germany but most have only moved there later on. What makes them German? Nothing.

Same goes for rugby players. I heard Robbie Diack wants to play for Ireland. I really don't see how he could be eligible to play for the Irish. First of all it has nothing to do with representing your country, second, you are blocking a possible career of a young, promising player who is Irish

 

[Kiwiwomble]

i would allow it because its a game not the united nations and would help build this game i love in other parts of the world, IMO.

holland to scotland would not be allowed under this rule, we are talking about one way traffic towards the less powerful nations

 

[cardassian]

Why accept swaps in the first place?

What about refugees?

Say an Iraqi kid comes over when he's 2 as a refugee.
Grows up in a country and plays rugby.
Is good enough to make the national team but we say sorry no International rugby for you because Iraq doesn't have a team.

Also what about cases where people have to flee their home country as otherwise would mean a their family get wiped out in ethnic cleansing?
So they take their kids and flee.
Sorry kids no International rugby for you.

I know this is extreme case stuff but it's not always black and white so the rules have to be flexible to a certain extent.
So that leaves us with having to decide where personnal liberty ends and regulations kick in.

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

That is an exceptional case. I am talking about picking a different country over yours. If you are a political refugee, it's a different story

 

[Conal]

i think it is down to heritage and where you grow up
so if someone grows up in country they should be able to play for it as they can identify themselves with it
if someones heritage is from that country so parents culture and growing up there

however i dont like people playing for countrys via residency if they are all ready like 16 or over s by that age you will be identified to your home country

also once your capped for a country in any sport have declared for that country so hape out of the england team your a kiwi

 

[markshaw]

Good. Srupid to have one rule for some and another for others. If players have chosen NZ in the first place, that means they consider themselves as New Zealenders, meaning they are not Fijian, Samoan or Tongan. Allowing them to then change their allegiences just because their all blacks career had dried up would have been a farce.

I would like to see them ban cross code switches where a player changes country aswell for the same reasons.

Playing for a country doesnt change where you come from..it is a fair rule but I think some people would be offended if you told them they were not Samoan because they play for the All Blacks