IRB rule against Pacific Islander's switch

[nickdnz]

Are you really equating playing for your country, one of the highest honor, with earning your crust? Really?

Do you think then players should go for the highest bidder, no loyalty involved?

That's very much my point. I don't think playing Rugby for a country should be a job oppertunity, it's an honour. Being loyal to a fairly faceless corporation is one thing, but being loyal to your home (which is where you feel it is) is another. I am eligableto play for England (though no one would want me), but because it's not my home, I wouldn't. It's that simple.

 

[Ickon]

I'm with the board in regards to this issue and as much as I would love to see Laulala, Masoe, Collins play for Samoa these players made there choice to play for New Zealand, no one put a gun to there head and said that they have to play for A.Bs besides how's it fair to the blokes who chose to play for there Island nation from the start....? Oh sorry mate were gonna choose (eg. Jerry Collins) over you because he's decided he wants to play for us now that he can't make the All Blacks. If they really want to give back they can help out with a coaching role or holding coaching clinics in the islands.

 

[smartcooky]

Are you really equating playing for your country, one of the highest honor, with earning your crust? Really?

Do you think then players should go for the highest bidder, no loyalty involved?

Not necessarily Charles, although remember Rugby Union is a "profession" now at the top levels, the game is professional, and players do earn their crusts playing the game.

Now it might be different in the NH where the players are payed huge money to play for their clubs, while playing for their country, from a money standpoint, is just a bonus payment on top.

It is completely the other way around here. The money players receive for their Super Rugby is little more than a retainer, playing ITM Cup is even less. The REAL money is in their All Black contracts, e.g., a player's ITM maximum Cup payment is $60,000 p.a.(~ â'¬34,000) which by European standards is a pittance. Those players who have an ITM Cup contract but no Super Rugby contract has to have a job in the off season. The only players in NZ who can make a living exclusively playing rugby are the All Blacks, and the fringe players close to All Blacks selection. The rest have to have jobs; and that's the reality.
.

 

[Nate Dizzle]

Yeah?? Thats what im saying

That makes your post even crazier, I should've read it properly haha. I'ma Cook Island Maori from NZ. I'm not from no-where now am I. I can't still be narrow minded...

 

[Nate Dizzle]

I'm with the board in regards to this issue and as much as I would love to see Laulala, Masoe, Collins play for Samoa these players made there choice to play for New Zealand, no one put a gun to there head and said that they have to play for A.Bs besides how's it fair to the blokes who chose to play for there Island nation from the start....? Oh sorry mate were gonna choose (eg. Jerry Collins) over you because he's decided he wants to play for us now that he can't make the All Blacks. If they really want to give back they can help out with a coaching role or holding coaching clinics in the islands.

Imagine having JC in the mix though. Players such as he have massive amounts of respect in the islands and I think would actually help to retain some of there younger talent if the likes of JC were in the squad. A few big names MIGHT help persuade a few with super rugby contracts to play for Samoa rather than the ABs. Anyways this move wouldn't only help the islands causes hell England could have the best five eight in Europe none other than Nick Evans playing for them, but no. Maybe thats why they voted for it? Theres a few handy ex-ABs over there. Actually England may just turn into NZ A if this proposal came in haha. Anyways my point is there are alot of players worthy of international rugby who aren't playing it.

 

[nickdnz]

Imagine having JC in the mix though. Players such as he have massive amounts of respect in the islands and I think would actually help to retain some of there younger talent if the likes of JC were in the squad. A few big names MIGHT help persuade a few with super rugby contracts to play for Samoa rather than the ABs. Anyways this move wouldn't only help the islands causes hell England could have the best five eight in Europe none other than Nick Evans playing for them, but no. Maybe thats why they voted for it? Theres a few handy ex-ABs over there. Actually England may just turn into NZ A if this proposal came in haha. Anyways my point is there are alot of players worthy of international rugby who aren't playing it.

By this post, I can tell you have no idea about what the proposition was at all. The aim was to give second and third tier nations an influx of quality tier 1 players, whom wished to represent their country of heritage or birth. Not tier 1 nations. England could not have Nick Evans, Scott Hamilton and Bruce Reihana. Wales could not have Xavier Rush, Regan King or Ben Blair. Ireland could not have Doug Howlett, Lifime Mafi or Sam Tuitupou and France couldn't have Byron Kelleher, Andrew Mehrtens or Carl Hayman.

I think Ickon is right on the money as well. How would it be fair for players from Samoa, who are so proud to play for their nation, to miss out on a jersey from a player who used to be an All Black? It's not right. Football is an attrociously professional and political game, but even football realizes the issue of allowing people to represent two nations. I think Smartcookie's plan would be the closest thing to acceptable, as I think it would be a safe guard to stop players who don't love the country, to playing for them.

 

[Teh Mite]

Not necessarily Charles, although remember Rugby Union is a "profession" now at the top levels, the game is professional, and players do earn their crusts playing the game.

Now it might be different in the NH where the players are payed huge money to play for their clubs, while playing for their country, from a money standpoint, is just a bonus payment on top.

It is completely the other way around here. The money players receive for their Super Rugby is little more than a retainer, playing ITM Cup is even less. The REAL money is in their All Black contracts, e.g., a player's ITM maximum Cup payment is $60,000 p.a.(~ €34,000) which by European standards is a pittance. Those players who have an ITM Cup contract but no Super Rugby contract has to have a job in the off season. The only players in NZ who can make a living exclusively playing rugby are the All Blacks, and the fringe players close to All Blacks selection. The rest have to have jobs; and that's the reality.
.

The old "NH players earn billions" argument despite the average player in the Premiership, Top 14 & ML earns between £16,000 & £24,000 a year. Only the Test players can command massive wages, and even then it may only be around £50,000 a year. Lewis Moody for example left Leicester and joined Bath because he demanded £250k which they were not prepared to pay.

Dan Caters half million for [strike]6 months[/strike] 1 game was an extreme example of a player receiving over the odds. And SBWs wage was just a joke.

Money being rife and "players only heading north for a pension" as spouted by the NZ tabloids is utter ********.

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

If you compare it to the salaries in South Africa it is a massive improvement for them. Don't know about the salaries in Australia and New Zealand though.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Apparently the minimum a Super 14 player gets payed is $60k NZ, which is around £29k

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

If that is the case I don't see why players like Johann Muller, Ruan Pienaar, Francois Steyn, BJ Botha, Pedrie Wannenburg, Jean de Villiers, Victor Matfield, ***** James, Percy Montgomery, Kees Lensing and many many more decide to move to Europe knowing they are throwing away their chances of a Springbok-career. It must be money.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

For France, certainly. The bigger players will be offered a lot of money (and the smaller players will be offered more than at home, probably)
No idea about the Britain/Ireland based players though, ad the Aviva/Magners are hardly flush with cash, and with the salary caps in place too. Maybe they just like rain?

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

Maybe but I cannot believe a player moves to the Magners League for the big challenge. I would prefer Super14 and Currie Cup over Magners League and Heineken Cup when it comes to getting a serious challenge.

 

[gingergenius]

it's a fact that the most high intensity club competition in the world is the heineken cup. look at the scorelines, watch the games... i'm not belittling the quality of the s14 but it's really not the same as the HC.

 

[nickdnz]

The old "NH players earn billions" argument despite the average player in the Premiership, Top 14 & ML earns between £16,000 & £24,000 a year. Only the Test players can command massive wages, and even then it may only be around £50,000 a year. Lewis Moody for example left Leicester and joined Bath because he demanded £250k which they were not prepared to pay.

Dan Caters half million for [strike]6 months[/strike] 1 game was an extreme example of a player receiving over the odds. And SBWs wage was just a joke.

Money being rife and "players only heading north for a pension" as spouted by the NZ tabloids is utter ********.

In fairness, a Kiwi is worth 10+ Englishmen, so you get what you pay for

 

[Teh Mite]

In fairness, a Kiwi is worth 10+ Englishmen, so you get what you pay for

I take your debate and raise you a Stephen Donald! :bleh!:

 

[nickdnz]

I take your debate and raise you a Stephen Donald! :bleh!:

*cough* Harry Ellis *cough*

 

[TRF C A Iversen]

it's a fact that the most high intensity club competition in the world is the heineken cup. look at the scorelines, watch the games... i'm not belittling the quality of the s14 but it's really not the same as the HC.

Well look if your arguing intensity, then I can agree. Quality is subjective so let's leave that out of it, but I'll agree that some of the most exciting intensive games come from up there.

 

[smartcooky]

Apparently the minimum a Super 14 player gets payed is $60k NZ, which is around £29k

Nope,

NZ$60K is the maximum allowed under the salary cap for the ITM cup. If they have a SuperRugby contract it will top them up, but everyone doesn't START at NZ$60K

Bullitt

If the salaries are so crap in the Prem. how come so many SH players head north. It ain't for the weather is it?

The NZRU tried to keep Nick Evans and Carl Hayman, but couldn't match the offers from Falcons and Quins.

 

[Teh Mite]

Nope,

NZ$60K is the maximum allowed under the salary cap for the ITM cup. If they have a SuperRugby contract it will top them up, but everyone doesn't START at NZ$60K

Bullitt

If the salaries are so crap in the Prem. how come so many SH players head north. It ain't for the weather is it?

The NZRU tried to keep Nick Evans and Carl Hayman, but couldn't match the offers from Falcons and Quins.

Ever been to the South of France?

 

[Teh Mite]

*cough* Harry Ellis *cough*

I smite you with your smack and Call "You owe us Big Time!" You lot had 5 glorious tears without Justin Marshall being a c*nt anywhere near Kiwi televisions!