In Argentina: The working class hates Rugby

[RoosTah]

I'm surprised Sanzar's comment went so unnoticed.....Where the hell are the black people in these photos!!!!!! The guy with the drum looks tanned, the other people are white as anything!!!!

I know right? All the people in these photos - whether wearing soccer or rugby jerseys - are so white that you'd lost sight of them if it started snowing.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Genuinely loling at this thread.
Especially the captions for those rugby vs football fans :lol:

 

[Jaguares]

I'm surprised Sanzar's comment went so unnoticed.....Where the hell are the black people in these photos!!!!!! The guy with the drum looks tanned, the other people are white as anything!!!!

I already answered that:

"Yeah, 'black' and 'white' is just an expression for people from countries very different from ours as Australia or Canada can understand the situation. Otherwise it is impossible for ALL the TRF users can understand the situation."

 

[LittleGuy]

I already answered that:

"Yeah, 'black' and 'white' is just an expression for people from countries very different from ours as Australia or Canada can understand the situation. Otherwise it is impossible for ALL the TRF users can understand the situation."

That's kind of a non-explanation. Do you mean that in Argentina "black" means tanned?

I can "maybe" see the guy at the drum being labelled as non-white(it's a stretch but with utterly ridiculous racial typologies I can see it) the two people in the bottom photo though? They don't look any different from the woman they are standing with.

Edit: I translated the message you sent Sumo and I think that's what it actually is "black" in Argentina is like non super pale. I have a tan because I work outside I guess I would be classfied as black in Argentina.

Edit Edit; Having done some research I have no found out that in Argentina you can be referred to as a "negro" by your social status alone, so it isn't even really a race thing but a class thing....how absurd.

 

[Superalexmarket]

In Argentina, some people say: "N.egros villeros" what is like "Shantytown negroes" (doesn't care the color of you skin)to the poor people, who lives in slums, with a low level of education, and those people in general is football followers. That is the people that Conrad hates a lot. An example of this people is Carlos Tevez.

 

[jonny24]

Well in response to Big Ewis and some others, I jsut want to say I'm not trying to pick on Conrad or anyone else, I'm just trying to wrap my head around some of the thoughts that have been posted in this thread as well as offer an alternate perspective. I'm genuinely confused by things said here, and a good deal of other things seem to very easily taken a wrong way that then gets argued about.

I'm surprised Sanzar's comment went so unnoticed.....Where the hell are the black people in these photos!!!!!! The guy with the drum looks tanned, the other people are white as anything!!!!

That's what I was getting at when I asked if I was missing some sarcasm.

Pic 1: One slightly tanned guy (what I'd call Portuguese, so I guess pretty Argentinian?) with a drum and a soccer shirt. Next to him, looking equally tanned and very happy, is buddy in the Pumas jersey. Next to - and behind- that guy, are two quite white looking dudes in soccer jerseys. And Next to and down is an older guy, who could be anything from English to French to Greek... in a Pumas jersey. Pretty hard to draw any conclusions from that.

Bottom pic: That dude looks Irish if anything. (I'm assuming no ones going to be offended by mild national impressions at this point).
followed by an even whiter girl, and yet another even whiter girl, who I don't know where she's from, but she can give me a call anytime to talk about it. :lol:

Originally Posted by Conrad SmithI already answered that:


"Yeah, 'black' and 'white' is just an expression for people from countries very different from ours as Australia or Canada can understand the situation. Otherwise it is impossible for ALL the TRF users can understand the situation."

I'm not sure what you're getting at with this Conrad? I mean here black means African American (Canadian...)... anyway enough arguing about race, even with the most careful wording and best intentions it's never going to go well.




Back on topic... Rugby! I think a distinction to make in the recent back-and-forth between you and Heineken regarding "ANC, Springboks, and black South Africans hating rugby". And that is that any hatred, discrimination, or policies within or towards the Boks does not mean it is directed at the sport itself. I freaking HATE the Boston Bruins, bunch o' no good overpaid thugs D) but that doesn't mean I hate the sport of hockey. While some people may dislike the Boks for what they may be percieved to represent/represented in the past (how's that for PC?), that doesn't mean they dislike the actual game that they play.

And while the ANC may be enforcing quotas (whether out of genuine yet misplaced aspirations of equility, or more more distasteful reasons- won't pretend I know anything more than what I learned from watching Invictus), that still doesn't they are against the actual game on the field.

Anyway, just trying to clear up some points for myself and others to aid in getting back to discussion and not arguing

EDIT: Ah, now that I've read Little guys edits I get it a little? I think we do the opposite here, your "olive/tanned" people- Latino/Iberian/Mediterranean- kind of just fall into "white" here, especially in areas like mine where there isn't the population density for there to be "communites" of similar backgrounds. Basically a random mix of European mutts is par for the course

 

[gaston le gaff]

to all and anyone out there, i never get into racists arguments or idocies like rugby v soccer, i just like to ask one question ...............
if i remember rightly one of the 1st rugby players to wear a camaflaged scrum cap was Serge Betson, now if i remember rightly although my memory is failing badly in these twilight years i dont remember seeing him at any Klan meetings, recently, or even in the past, so what group do we put him into.......... Black hater , axe murderer, all white boys club, (at least there he would never be invisable) or just plain and simple rugby player who decided to wear a camo scrum cap, cause that was the only one left................ interesting i wonder!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Peat]

.. i dont remember seeing him at any Klan meetings...

Go to a lot of Klan meetings do you? ^_^

 

[TRF_heineken]

to all and anyone out there, i never get into racists arguments or idocies like rugby v soccer, i just like to ask one question ...............
if i remember rightly one of the 1st rugby players to wear a camaflaged scrum cap was Serge Betson, now if i remember rightly although my memory is failing badly in these twilight years i dont remember seeing him at any Klan meetings, recently, or even in the past, so what group do we put him into.......... Black hater , axe murderer, all white boys club, (at least there he would never be invisable) or just plain and simple rugby player who decided to wear a camo scrum cap, cause that was the only one left................ interesting i wonder!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Exactly! And Victor's scrumcap fits with his Bulls kit.

Betsen and Victor aren't the only ones to wear camo scrumcaps, many other players have wore it in the past.

It's such a stupid argument, and believe me, there's no merit in it. If they want to use that as an argument, then they must take on the entire Bulls team wearing camo, and John Smit also had an exhibition game when he retired, where his team also wore camo, yet none those teams or their players have been brought under scrutiny.

 

[gaston le gaff]

Go to a lot of Klan meetings do you? ^_^

NO It was just to show as an example how pathetic this thread had become and how low some people will do to get their point across when they would do better to keep quiet in other words Shut the FU** UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Peat]

I think you're bluffing, Gaston. I think that was a Freudian slip

 

[Thingimubob]

Your comprehension ability is nil. I never said to be against casual fans. I have many friends who are casual fans. I'm against football supporters who hate rugby and become casual fans during some big games. Not all casual fans are bad, but there is a sector of casual fans are negative, especially in Argentina, I have many friends who are casual fans, not all casual fans are the same. There are casual fans who truly are interested, and others who just want to criticize.

Those casual fans going to the stadiums and buy tickets, they are positive for our sport. I support them, but I mean football supporters who never going to stadiums and are only interested in criticizing and belittling our sport.

I have led many casual fans to rugby games, is something that I support 100%. A few weeks ago, I gave a Wallabies polo-shirt to a casual fan. To motivate him, I'm trying to encourage him to play next year in my rugby club. Don't say things about me, you don't know me.

Less of the insults please mate. Well good for you. Why are you slinging comments at Alex then, berating him for not commenting on that Super 15 game? That's what I'm getting at. Whatever, cba with it.

Concerning the whole "Black South Africans hate rugby" debate, is it more accurate to say that any problems that do exist are directed at SARU rather than the sport itself? The main argument seems to be that there should be more Black representation in the Boks, which is what Heineken has been trying to say... Literally most of those extracts you've used Conrad support that rather than "they hate rugby".
I mean even in the days of Apartheid, there were loads of stories and examples of black people supporting the Lions vs SA, so again not exactly hating rugby!

 

[Jaguares]

That's kind of a non-explanation. Do you mean that in Argentina "black" means tanned?

I can "maybe" see the guy at the drum being labelled as non-white(it's a stretch but with utterly ridiculous racial typologies I can see it) the two people in the bottom photo though? They don't look any different from the woman they are standing with.

Edit: I translated the message you sent Sumo and I think that's what it actually is "black" in Argentina is like non super pale. I have a tan because I work outside I guess I would be classfied as black in Argentina.

Edit Edit; Having done some research I have no found out that in Argentina you can be referred to as a "negro" by your social status alone, so it isn't even really a race thing but a class thing....how absurd.

In Argentina (a country without black population), "blacks" are the indigenous like Kurtley Beale. It's hard to show the difference for a Canadian. The Sumo's photos don't reflect the reality, these are pictures of people from upper middle class. I'll give you an example, if you are watching the FIFA World Cup at the moment, you don't see black people with the Brazil jersey in the stadiums, even though Brazil has a lot of black people. This is because the tickets for the FIFA WC games are very very expensive, which makes it inaccessible to the poorest people.

In Argentina we have a significant indigenous population, they are mostly poor regions as San Juan, Catamarca, Jujuy, Formosa, Salta I have even from neighboring countries like Bolivia and Peru. We have many poor immigrants here, especially Bolivians and Peruvians, it's estimated that they are about 2 or 3 million people and all their children are Argentine because we have a weak immigration policy. Anyone from any country can come to Argentina and in only two years becomes Argentine citizen. It's hard to explain to a Canadian or European like you, because you have very strong migratory policies. In some European countries it's impossible to get citizenship of these countries if you don't have European descent. Here in Argentina is very easy to obtain citizenship, any person in any country becomes Argentine citizen in just 2 years.

So we have a lot of indigenous people, those people don't look at the Sumo's photos because the photos are of sporting events like the FIFA World Cup or tennis matches, which are very very expensive for poor people. Then, in the same way that you don't see many black people in Brazil games of the FIFA World Cup (because the tickets are very expensive and blacks can't buy it) you won't see the poorest people in the Sumo's pictures.

In Argentina, some people say: "N.egros villeros" what is like "Shantytown negroes" (doesn't care the color of you skin)to the poor people, who lives in slums, with a low level of education, and those people in general is football followers. That is the people that Conrad hates a lot. An example of this people is Carlos Tevez.

Conrad hates a lot??? You DON'T KNOW ME! Stop talking to me because you don't know me and neither don't know the rugby club CASI that you have in your profile.

Less of the insults please mate. Well good for you. Why are you slinging comments at Alex then, berating him for not commenting on that Super 15 game? That's what I'm getting at. Whatever, cba with it.

Concerning the whole "Black South Africans hate rugby" debate, is it more accurate to say that any problems that do exist are directed at SARU rather than the sport itself? The main argument seems to be that there should be more Black representation in the Boks, which is what Heineken has been trying to say... Literally most of those extracts you've used Conrad support that rather than "they hate rugby".
I mean even in the days of Apartheid, there were loads of stories and examples of black people supporting the Lions vs SA, so again not exactly hating rugby!

1. Alex don't know me and says stupid things about me

2. South Africa has more serious problems than the amount of black players there in their national rugby team. For example they are the world capital of rape. So before worrying about if a black man can become a professional rugby player should be concerned about the education and health of their black population. That's more important than to become a f**king professional rugby player. Rugby is a very expensive sport, international rugby is currently inaccessible to poor people in third world countries such as Argentina, South Africa or Brazil. You need an athlete than 100 kg, who can move like a ballerina, in this sport there are more injuries than any other.

Then South Africa should worry about work and education to give its black population, they aren't Norway or Denmark. So worry about the amount of black rugby players in their national rugby team when there are many blacks who are starving in their own country, it's stupid. For the Soweto's Children you have to give them education, health, food, adequate housing and other more important things than turning them in f**king professional rugby players.

 

[Big Ewis]

NO It was just to show as an example how pathetic this thread had become and how low some people will do to get their point across when they would do better to keep quiet in other words Shut the FU** UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

gaston style, the right style. Agreed friend, someone should put a stop to this. To be more clear, *close the thread*. Interesting things have been said, VERY interesting in fact, by Conrad Smith notably. Equally pathetic things were said, and this ain't going anywhere. When a thread becomes a user justifying his previous posts, along with insults, being insulted and opportunistic posters throwing in edgy hotshot comments, we're basically doomed and not a forum anymore.
I know there isn't much to talk about right now, at least for us NH people, but ffs, not this...

Maybe it's time for another "Best _____ XV" thread. Yes, I'm gonna do one. see you there.

 

[Thingimubob]

2. South Africa has more serious problems than the amount of black players there in their national rugby team. For example they are the world capital of rape. So before worrying about if a black man can become a professional rugby player should be concerned about the education and health of their black population. That's more important than to become a f**king professional rugby player. Rugby is a very expensive sport, international rugby is currently inaccessible to poor people in third world countries such as Argentina, South Africa or Brazil. You need an athlete than 100 kg, who can move like a ballerina, in this sport there are more injuries than any other.

Then South Africa should worry about work and education to give its black population, they aren't Norway or Denmark. So worry about the amount of black rugby players in their national rugby team when there are many blacks who are starving in their own country, it's stupid. For the Soweto's Children you have to give them education, health, food, adequate housing and other more important things than turning them in f**king professional rugby players.

As valid as all of this is, and I do agree that there are certainly more pressing issues in SA than creating the next generation for the Springboks, I still don't quite see how this backs up your claims of SA's black people hating rugby? Especially when people who actually live there have tried to correct you?

 

[Sumo]

I'm surprised Sanzar's comment went so unnoticed.....Where the hell are the black people in these photos!!!!!! The guy with the drum looks tanned, the other people are white as anything!!!!

 

[RoosTah]

I don't know that you understand the meaning of sarcasm Sumo...

 

[Leonardo Dias]

In Argentina (a country without black population), "blacks" are the indigenous like Kurtley Beale. It's hard to show the difference for a Canadian. The Sumo's photos don't reflect the reality, these are pictures of people from upper middle class. I'll give you an example, if you are watching the FIFA World Cup at the moment, you don't see black people with the Brazil jersey in the stadiums, even though Brazil has a lot of black people. This is because the tickets for the FIFA WC games are very very expensive, which makes it inaccessible to the poorest people.

Not a lot, only 1,1% of Brazilian Population is black.

btw, in Brazil the Rugby is practiced by middle-class, the Rugby arrived here through universities and few programs for inclusion were made ​​for the "lower classes".

SPAC, Brazilian Champions of 2013, good portion of the players are/were univesity students from middle-class

 

[Jaguares]

Not a lot, only 1,1% of Brazilian Population is black.

That is 100% pure black population, but many Brazilians are mixed-race like Barack Obama (He isn't 100% black). I was in Rio de Janeiro a few years ago and I saw a high number of blacks and descendants of blacks on the streets. Also I heard that Salvador de Bahia is the city with the highest percentage of blacks out of Africa.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Jesus Christ.