Heineken Cup Pools 08/09 Season

[Sir Speedy]

When this draw is made each year all I care about is the away trips. This year its Biarritz and Calvisano, what a couple of beauties!!
[/b]

Must have been ******** for you last year. A trip to Swansea and Northern Ireland. :lol:

 

[danny]

<div class='quotemain'>
When this draw is made each year all I care about is the away trips. This year its Biarritz and Calvisano, what a couple of beauties!!
[/b]

Must have been ******** for you last year. A trip to Swansea and Northern Ireland. :lol:
[/b][/quote]
Yes it was **** in the extreme.

 

[Stillknox]

I expect Montauban to be like Portugal was in the 2007 Rugby World Cup. They will have so much pride and want to prove themselves against the stronger teams.[/b]

Montauban may not be as weak as we expect : there are some good players in this team, like Mitu (scrum half of Romania), Frost (ex Ulster player) Fortassin (5th top scorer with 212 points this years, Brock James leading with 280) Diarra or Caballero who are now french internationals, and Audrin who will follow the same direction soon according to the press.

And they made a very good recruitment for next year : Vilimoni Delasau (Clermont and Fiji's winger), Julien Larrahague (Sale), Shaun Paku (Hurricanes) Schvelildze. (Georgian prop from Clermont)

I can't see them making the quarters but they can be dangerous if the others teams underrates them, especially at home where they are almost invincible. (the only team who win there this year was Toulouse, and it was nearly the same thing the previous season)
At least, Clermont will know how good they are.

 

[Sir Speedy]

especially at home where they are almost invincible. (the only team who win there this year was Toulouse, and it was nearly the same thing the previous season)
At least, Clermont will know how good they are.
[/b]

In that case, I can't see Munster or Sale topping the pool unless Montauban decide to not try in the Heineken Cup.

 

[shazbooger]

In that case, I can't see Munster or Sale topping the pool unless Montauban decide to not try in the Heineken Cup. [/b]

Good point. I mean its not as if Munster;

• Are the top seeded team
• Have won the tournament twice in the last three years
• Topped a group including Clermont and Wasps last year
• Have a habit of going to those difficult away trips and getting the crucial bonus point
• Made it out of the group stages every year since the competition started

They obviously dont have a hope against the might of Sale who finished fifth in this years GP and Clermont who have always prioritised their domestic competition over the HEC.

 

[Thingimubob]

When this draw is made each year all I care about is the away trips. This year its Biarritz and Calvisano, what a couple of beauties!! [/b]

yeah our group has some pretty cool away trips! my mate will be happy, his dream is too open a surf shop in Biarritz.
Heh, I see you're not looking forward to coming down Cardiff Can't blame you, we'll only thrash you like last time Gloucester came down. Can't wait for that game though, should be a good game!

 

[lineens weegie army]

Good draw for us - although Toulouse is tough to get to from Scotland!

TBH though I reckon well beat Toulouse and Bath at home, come close in Tolouse and take something from Bath.

Oh, and Newport to take 10 points from us!

 

[Sir Speedy]

<div class='quotemain'> In that case, I can't see Munster or Sale topping the pool unless Montauban decide to not try in the Heineken Cup. [/b]

Good point. I mean its not as if Munster;

• Are the top seeded team
• Have won the tournament twice in the last three years
• Topped a group including Clermont and Wasps last year
• Have a habit of going to those difficult away trips and getting the crucial bonus point
• Made it out of the group stages every year since the competition started

They obviously dont have a hope against the might of Sale who finished fifth in this years GP and Clermont who have always prioritised their domestic competition over the HEC.
[/b][/quote]
Well:
1) Montauban have an impressive home record as previously stated. Only Clermont play with them regularly and know what they are capable of.
2) Sale have some of the best players in Europe and on Earth and could cause any team problems. Obviously, with all the talent they've bought aswell, they're going to just roll over and let you guys win the group. The result of the pool depends on how they play, since I can't realistically see them qualifying.
3) Clermont at their best are the best team in Europe. If they decide to focus on this Cup rather than on the Top14 then Munster will need to play out of their skins for the 160 minutes they play against them to have a chance of qualifying. Beating their second string team last year means little to nothing.

Oh why do I bother? This is MUNSTER we're talking about. How dare I suggest they aren't as good as everyone claims!

 

[danny]

<div class='quotemain'> When this draw is made each year all I care about is the away trips. This year its Biarritz and Calvisano, what a couple of beauties!! [/b]

yeah our group has some pretty cool away trips! my mate will be happy, his dream is too open a surf shop in Biarritz.
Heh, I see you're not looking forward to coming down Cardiff Can't blame you, we'll only thrash you like last time Gloucester came down. Can't wait for that game though, should be a good game!
[/b][/quote]
Sorry to leave out Cardiff from my away trips Im looking forward to but its got nothing to do with the rugby. You`re right Cardiff did stuff us in a PRE-SEASON game last year, but if you think back you will remember that we did the double on you last time we were in the same HC group. Anyway does anyone know what airport you fly to for Calvisano, is it Brescia and has anyone else been there?

 

[Sir Speedy]

I've been to three grounds in Wales (only not Rodney Parade) and I've concluded that Stradey Park <strike>has</strike> had the best pre-game and uring game atmosphere. I went to see us lose to Munster in a storm of biblical proportions there last year and inspite of the rain, the atmosphere was superb. Although, that may have been helped by the Munster support.

 

[peppers07]

<div class='quotemain'> In that case, I can't see Munster or Sale topping the pool unless Montauban decide to not try in the Heineken Cup. [/b]

Good point. I mean its not as if Munster;

• Are the top seeded team
• Have won the tournament twice in the last three years
• Topped a group including Clermont and Wasps last year
• Have a habit of going to those difficult away trips and getting the crucial bonus point
• Made it out of the group stages every year since the competition started

They obviously dont have a hope against the might of Sale who finished fifth in this years GP and Clermont who have always prioritised their domestic competition over the HEC.
[/b][/quote]

All thats true except the last one im fairly sure Munster didnt get out of their group on the first 2 or 3 times

 

[shazbooger]

Oh why do I bother? This is MUNSTER we're talking about. How dare I suggest they aren't as good as everyone claims! [/b]

Ive no objections to you suggesting anything, but when you justify it with a series of points like;

No one knows what Montauban will do so lets assume they are going to beat everyone but Clermont. <LI>Sale, who finished outside the playoffs, have some of the best players on Earth? ................****** myself laughing there (and dont use that as an excuse to list off a series of B grade players).<LI>Clermont, If they decide to focus on this Cup, which they have never done, are obviously too good for Munster. In the same way that Toulouse, Glouster, Wasps and eh.............. Clermont werent last year.

Your telling me you are disregarding Munsters record in Europe based on those lazy little arguements? I know your a frequent poster here, and everyone favourite welshman but if your going to express your opinion, at least qualify it with "I havent the foggiest notion of what I'm talking about, I dont do facts or logic only blinkered assumptions. Dont bother trying to debate anything cause your obviously wrong and I'm write, oh .............. and it was the ref's fault."

On a final point. I'm a Leinster fan. I would like nothing better then seeing those redneck bandwagon junkies eat a rather large slice of humble pie as Clermont or the mighty Montauban rip them a new arsehole in their lovely new stadium. Many teams have tried though, and most come away with nothing. Munster will win their home games, and as both a full strength Wasps and Clermont saw last year, they will get their away bonus points. That will decide this pool. That and the fact that Clermont will field an understrength for at least two of their away games.

All thats true except the last one im fairly sure Munster didnt get out of their group on the first 2 or 3 times [/b]

Yep your right, first three years no, last 10 years yes.

 

[Sir Speedy]

Ive no objections to you suggesting anything, but when you justify it with a series of points like;

No one knows what Montauban will do so lets assume they are going to beat everyone but Clermont. <LI>Sale, who finished outside the playoffs, have some of the best players on Earth? ................****** myself laughing there (and dont use that as an excuse to list off a series of B grade players).<LI>Clermont, If they decide to focus on this Cup, which they have never done, are obviously too good for Munster. In the same way that Toulouse, Glouster, Wasps and eh.............. Clermont werent last year.

Your telling me you are disregarding Munsters record in Europe based on those lazy little arguements? I know your a frequent poster here, and everyone favourite welshman but if your going to express your opinion, at least qualify it with "I havent the foggiest notion of what I'm talking about, I dont do facts or logic only blinkered assumptions. Dont bother trying to debate anything cause your obviously wrong and I'm write, oh .............. and it was the ref's fault."

On a final point. I'm a Leinster fan. I would like nothing better then seeing those redneck bandwagon junkies eat a rather large slice of humble pie as Clermont or the mighty Montauban rip them a new arsehole in their lovely new stadium. Many teams have tried though, and most come away with nothing. Munster will win their home games, and as both a full strength Wasps and Clermont saw last year, they will get their away bonus points. That will decide this pool. That and the fact that Clermont will field an understrength for at least two of their away games.

<div class='quotemain'> All thats true except the last one im fairly sure Munster didnt get out of their group on the first 2 or 3 times [/b]

Yep your right, first three years no, last 10 years yes.
[/b][/quote]
Firstly, don't throw in annoying bashes for the sake of it; I don't intend to be "everyone's favourite Welshman" and I'd be pretty surprised if I was. :mellow:
Secondly; Sale's World-class players: Luke Mcalister, Andrew Sheridan. If you're telling me that Sale hasn't got a an impressive line-up then there is something wrong with you. In fact, depending on your interpretation of "B-player", I don't see more than 4 or 5 players of 'that' quality in the Sale team. Certainly none in the backline, and their forward pack certainly won't be bullied by Munster's. Montauban, a Top 14 team that Clermont frequently play. It's just common sense that Clermont would have the advantage against these teams - Just like the Crusaders would have the advantage over any other NH team against a
S14 team (yeh there is a difference between Top14 teams and 14 teams but the point remains valid).
And you can use the past all you like. Last season I said that Llanelli had a good chance of topping their pool. Well, lets not go there. Clermont Auvergne fielded a 2nd string side against you last season in Limerick (Uh, "you"? I mean Munster of course but I'm gonna keep using "you"), which is why they got slaughtered and why they, effectively, had no chance of qualifying afterwards.
You saying that Munster "will win their home games", and "will get their away bonus points" is about as ignorant as me saying that Sale will win each game by 50 points. . Of course the latter case is less likely, but it's impossible to know for sure, and being a Leinster fan, I'd expect you to be less ridiculous. Oh also, I like how you're trying to bring up the Wales v SA referee debate, "aand it was the referees fault". Please don't start that nonsense here please, you should know better...

 

[MunsterMan]

The second string side did include players such Delesau, Smit, Joubert and more players who would be in most other teams first teams. I agree with you that Clermont probably are the best team in Europe and Montauban are relatively unknown but Munster ran Clermont's first team very close in France last year and if it was not for a dubious crossing decision in the first half would have at least drawn with them.

 

[dullonien]

You wouldn't bet against Munster though. I mean, in my opinion, they didn't have the best collection of individuals last year, or three years ago, but they have the best 'team' in the competition by quite a way. If some of the other teams, like Tolouse, Clermont, Wasps or even the Ospreys learen't how to play in the big games in the same way Munster do, then most of the other teams wouldn't have a chance, including Munster! (now I know Wasps and others have done in the past, but not at the moment).

 

[Sir Speedy]

The second string side did include players such Delesau, Smit, Joubert and more players who would be in most other teams first teams. I agree with you that Clermont probably are the best team in Europe and Montauban are relatively unknown but Munster ran Clermont's first team very close in France last year and if it was not for a dubious crossing decision in the first half would have at least drawn with them.
[/b]

I guess we'll have to wait and see. Clermont have yet to win the Top 14 this year, the semi's are on Sunday, aren't they?

 

[shtove]

Again the pool of death for Clermont...
[/b]

And again a dramatic choke!

Munster die all the time - at least the fans do - the trick is in the resurrection.

My prediction:
P2: Wasps, Leinster
Wasps are maybe the best team in Europe on good form and I don't see Leinster losing in Edinburgh again...
[/b]

Agree about Wasps. But Edinburgh are Leinster's bogey team - and it's time for the Scots to make an impact: they can play it smart and tough, so a bit of luck will get them in to the semis.

 

[camelback]

<div class='quotemain'>
The second string side did include players such Delesau, Smit, Joubert and more players who would be in most other teams first teams. I agree with you that Clermont probably are the best team in Europe and Montauban are relatively unknown but Munster ran Clermont's first team very close in France last year and if it was not for a dubious crossing decision in the first half would have at least drawn with them.
[/b]

I guess we'll have to wait and see. Clermont have yet to win the Top 14 this year, the semi's are on Sunday, aren't they?
[/b][/quote]
You're totally right Sir Speedy, and as foolish as it can be, the 2008 Top 14 will rule the 2009 season of Clermont in HCup. I'll explain this : Clermont has a great team this year, like past year, with great statistics. But Clermont has never in the history since the beggining of the Club ( 1911 ) the french championship. They lost 8 finals, and never won any. Nevertheless they finished in first place of the Top 14 this year. Semi finals are saturday and sunday, final next saturday. If they win the Top 14, they will be very dangerous in HCup next year, since HCup would be their first target. If they don't, well Top 14 will stil be the principal goal for players, fans, and staff.

So here you have : if you want Munster and Sale to be easier in pool stage of 2009 HCup, pray for Clermont not to win the Top14.

 

[Stillknox]

Semi finals are saturday and sunday, final next saturday. If they win the Top 14, they will be very dangerous in HCup next year, since HCup would be their first target. If they don't, well Top 14 will stil be the principal goal for players, fans, and staff.

So here you have : if you want Munster and Sale to be easier in pool stage of 2009 HCup, pray for Clermont not to win the Top14. [/b]

Well in any case Clermont knows that they have to get out the H-Cup pool stage if they want to be in an easier pool in the future. Let's be honest, Clermont deserve better than tier 3. The whole Top 14 thing is a very long run, but Clermont have the bench to make it to the top 4 and play the H-Cup besides, easily. Toulouse makes it this year and their roster is not so good IMO.

But as always don't underestimates Munster... and Sale too ! I think that Montauban will lose all away games (with a B-Team ?) but they can make one or two surprises in their fortress, and this may be the difference maker. Clermont lost at Montauban this year so they are warned.

 

[Sir Speedy]

European Challenge Cup Pools

Pool 1
London Irish (Eng)
Connacht (Ire)
Dax/Albi (Fra)
Rugby Rovigo (Ita)


Pool 2
Northampton (Eng)
Bristol (Eng)
Montpellier (Fra)
Toulon (Fra)

Pool 3
Bourgoin (Fra)
Worcester (Eng)
Petrarca Rugby (Italy)
Bucuresti Oaks (Rom)

Pool 4
Newcastle (Eng)
Brive (Fra)
Overmach Rugby Parma (Ita)
Cetransa El Salvador (Spain)

Pool 5
Saracens (Eng)
Viadana (Ita)
Bayonne (Fra)
Stade Montois Rugby (Fra)

My predicted winners in order:
Toulon, London Irish, Worcester, Viadana D), Brive, Northampton, Saracens, Bourgoin.