Has The SANZAAR Alliance Run It's Course?

[The Seeker]

I found this article on ESPN.com from March 24th, where Sam Bruce thinks the SANZAAR alliance has run it's course. Some of you probably read it when it first came out, while many of you haven't. It's still relevant, so I thought I'd share it.

http://www.espn.com/rugby/story/_/id/26327345/sanzaar-alliance-run-course

 

[mdaclarke]

No, Super Rugby and the Championship are still have the best quality rugby, they are my favourite competitions. Going to the conference system was a serious misstep, reverting to a single round robin is long overdue.

Sam Bruce is Australian, for some reason the Australians always seem to have a downer on Super Rugby.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

i'll read the article soon but my first thought on the topic is yes, i think the quality of the games has little to do with SANZAR. The fact they are chopping and changing every few years, dropping teams like the force and sunwolves (who both had very good reasons to stay) just suggest the parties involved just dont see things the same way.

I'd prefer if rather than SANZAR being the main organisation and domestic comps coming in underneath, each nation should concentrate on their domestic comps and super rugby should be the best of those compositions

 

[TRF_heineken]

Nah. I think the SANZAAR alliance is more united than it was in the past, and there seems to be a unified effort in making the tournament better again. They tried something, tweaked it, tried something different, tweaked it, and then came to the conclusion that it just doesn't work and that more isn't always better.

Reverting back to the round robin instead of the conference system is a step in the right direction. Something many of us in the SH have been begging for the past few years.

did you guys see the article in the Sydney Morning Herald about the possible changes SANZAAR is looking into after 2021:
https://www.smh.com.au/sport/rugby-...rugby-rugby-championship-20190408-p51c1d.html

Now some of these plans IMHO are great ideas, others like the Marquee players idea, I don't like that so much, but I understand the thinking behind it.

It just seems to me that ever since Australia lost it's power at the helm of the group, there have been a more coherent discussion between the nations. They know they are under attack from other tournaments and that the financial part of keeping players are a daunting task. But SA Rugby has started their new contracts system, in an effort to keep more players in SA, and actually compete with the NH and Japan, and perhaps, the possibility is there that at some point the financial part would improve to such an extent that SANZAAR's nations would be able to pay the players the same amounts as the NH and Japan, and strengthen the SR squads and quality.

Many tournaments go through a lull phase, and I think SR was already at it's lowest point and is already rebuilding and getting better.

 

[smartcooky]

No, Super Rugby and the Championship are still have the best quality rugby, they are my favourite competitions. Going to the conference system was a serious misstep, reverting to a single round robin is long overdue.

Sam Bruce is Australian, for some reason the Australians always seem to have a downer on Super Rugby.

Its because they DON'T want South Africa or Argentina in the competition. Their idea of "Super" Rugby is a Trans-Tasman, 10 team competition; five Aussie teams and five NZ teams in a home+away 18 round, Round-Robin format with a four team McIntyre post-season.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2...ns-a-concern-for-australian-super-rugby-sides

.....with many Australian rugby officials arguing for a trans-Tasman competition to replace the existing four-nation Super Rugby structure post 2020, there cold be wide-ranging ramifications. They want more income-generating home games against drawcard Kiwi teams and less revenue-depleting travel costs to Africa and South America. But New Zealand will never sever their historical ties with South Africa to play in a trans-Tasman competition against weak Australian opposition.​

 

[smartcooky]

did you guys see the article in the Sydney Morning Herald about the possible changes SANZAAR is looking into after 2021:
https://www.smh.com.au/sport/rugby-...rugby-rugby-championship-20190408-p51c1d.html

Now some of these plans IMHO are great ideas, others like the Marquee players idea, I don't like that so much, but I understand the thinking behind it.

"The proposal would see the final played at a neutral venue from 2021 instead of the home ground of the highest-ranked team in the final, a format used by the peak professional competitions in European and American football."​

This has to rank as one of THE most stupid ideas that SANZAAR has ever tabled. Who is going to turn up to a Crusaders v Blues Grand Final at Ellis Park, or a Sharks v Stormers Grand Final at Forsyth-Barr.

These so called "Blue Sky" thinkers don't understand that having a predetermined final venue works in Europe because the eastern-most and western-most teams in the competition are only an €80.00 - 1½ hour flight apart. If I'm a Leinster supporter and the HC Final is at 2:30 pm in San Siro against Toulon, I can fly from Dublin to Milan in the morning, go to the game and, fly back to Dublin be home in time for supper. In Super rugby Auckald to Johannesburg is a 13 hour flight each way, $1500 - $2500, plus you'll have to stay at least one night in SA.

Stupid, stupid, stupid

 

[mdaclarke]

"The proposal would see the final played at a neutral venue from 2021 instead of the home ground of the highest-ranked team in the final, a format used by the peak professional competitions in European and American football."​

This has to rank as one of THE most stupid ideas that SANZAAR has ever tabled. Who is going to turn up to a Crusaders v Blues Grand Final at Ellis Park, or a Sharks v Stormers Grand Final at Forsyth-Barr.

These so called "Blue Sky" thinkers don't understand that having a predetermined final venue works in Europe because the eastern-most and western-most teams in the competition are only an €80.00 - 1½ hour flight apart. If I'm a Leinster supporter and the HC Final is at 2:30 pm in San Siro against Toulon, I can fly from Dublin to Milan in the morning, go to the game and, fly back to Dublin be home in time for supper. In Super rugby Auckald to Johannesburg is a 13 hour flight each way, $1500 - $2500, plus you'll have to stay at least one night in SA.

Stupid, stupid, stupid

If I know SANZAAR the final will probably be in Twickenham, Stade De France, somewhere in Japan or somewhere in the USA.

 

[mdaclarke]

Its because they DON'T want South Africa or Argentina in the competition. Their idea of "Super" Rugby is a Trans-Tasman, 10 team competition; five Aussie teams and five NZ teams in a home+away 18 round, Round-Robin format with a four team McIntyre post-season.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2...ns-a-concern-for-australian-super-rugby-sides

.....with many Australian rugby officials arguing for a trans-Tasman competition to replace the existing four-nation Super Rugby structure post 2020, there cold be wide-ranging ramifications. They want more income-generating home games against drawcard Kiwi teams and less revenue-depleting travel costs to Africa and South America. But New Zealand will never sever their historical ties with South Africa to play in a trans-Tasman competition against weak Australian opposition.​

Trouble is, if they had to choose between dropping Australia or South Africa, the New Zealanders would drop Australia. Australia just have to accept that when it comes to SANZAAR they don't have the influence of South Africa or New Zealand.

 

[The Seeker]

Are the Jaguares safe? There's only one SupeRugby side in Japan and they'll be gone soon. And there's only one SupeRugby side in Argentina. I read that the South African contingent complained about travel to Japan, so that's why I'm wondering about Argentina. Do you think they'll go from SANZAAR back to SANZAR?

 

[smartcooky]

Are the Jaguares safe? There's only one SupeRugby side in Japan and they'll be gone soon. And there's only one SupeRugby side in Argentina. I read that the South African contingent complained about travel to Japan, so that's why I'm wondering about Argentina. Do you think they'll go from SANZAAR back to SANZAR?

It would be a bit trickier to cut the Jaguares.

Argentina is part of the Rugby Championship, and the UAR have committed huge resources to having the Jaguares in Super Rugby. However, in the case of the Sunwolves, while the JRFU has supported them and the fans love them, the corporate owners of the Top League teams would just as soon they go away.

 

[TRF_heineken]

It would be a bit trickier to cut the Jaguares.

Argentina is part of the Rugby Championship, and the UAR have committed huge resources to having the Jaguares in Super Rugby. However, in the case of the Sunwolves, while the JRFU has supported them and the fans love them, the corporate owners of the Top League teams would just as soon they go away.

Argentina is also a full member of SANZAAR. That bolded "A" is afterall their name. SA (South Africa) NZ (New Zealand) A (Argentina) A (Australia) R (Rugby).

The Jaguares are safe. More so because they were in the playoffs before, and is constantly performing well against their counterparts, whereas the same couldn't be said about the Sunwolves. But because of the RC and Argentina's involvement, I can't see that SANZAAR would get rid of them.

The other issue is that when the Sunwolves leave SR, it will truly be a SH tournament again (south of the equator)...

 

[The Seeker]

Thank you all for your input. I'm new to the sport compared to most of you and appreciate all the knowledge.

 

[del boy]

Argentina is also a full member of SANZAAR. That bolded "A" is afterall their name. SA (South Africa) NZ (New Zealand) A (Argentina) A (Australia) R (Rugby).

The Jaguares are safe. More so because they were in the playoffs before, and is constantly performing well against their counterparts, whereas the same couldn't be said about the Sunwolves. But because of the RC and Argentina's involvement, I can't see that SANZAAR would get rid of them.

The other issue is that when the Sunwolves leave SR, it will truly be a SH tournament again (south of the equator)...

Well said

Jaguares are starting to emerge as a sleeping giant

They wasted first 2 years with a muppet HC in Perez and not rotating their squad and using young and underutilised talent

Ledesma came in last year and made a huge difference

Quesada likewise has also started to put his imprint in the Jaguares

Jaguares have the benefit of continuity that other SR franchises don't with players going to Europe or Japan

I expect Jaguares to be a perennial playoff team from 2020 onwards

Plus they actually play Argentinian players and don't important mercenaries in the form of 2nd rate Kiwi, SA and Aussies in the form of the Sunwolves