Grid and Walk On Girls

[ncurd]

So they've been removed from Darts and F1 and I'm in two minds.

1) They geuninely serve no pupose other than to look pretty, ***ulate men and give off the air of glamourous lifestyle.

2) Its part of the brand and they don't hurt anyone, the women themselves are now out of jobs. This is not the same as the presidents club thing where women were basically dressed up so men could sexually harass or assault them (I know some were not).


My main though unless these women are subject to harassment or assault on a routine basis and its hushed up I honestly don't give a damn either way.


Can we please refrain from just saying PC culture gone mad....

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I'm a big mma fan and ring girls just seem so outdated/crazy these days.
Especially with the increase in women's mma

 

[GarethGriffiths]

Unfortunately, Ncurd, that is exactly what it is.

Did anybody ask the ladies who are doing these jobs what their opinion is/was? If not, why weren't they consulted?

The President's Club incident is and always will be deeply regrettable, but if we are going to go down the victim card route of 'all women are vulnerable and we must protect them' then frankly we have lost the plot.

My niece is 20 and has modelled since she was a child (and yes, the family always took precautions and checked out suitable agencies). She has considered glamour modelling and hostessing, as she has the looks and figure and feels that it is an ideal job for her. Who has the right to deny her her dreams? I thought that we were a tolerant, progressive and diverse country? It seems that diversity of thought and opinion is not allowed!

I think that the PC peeps missed a great trick here - why not have men or indeed transgender/intersex people as the walk-ons or the pit peoples? I'd have no problem, if I was a professional darts player, with a transgender person or two walking me on to the Oche. It would have been a major fillip for them, and I am sure that there are many transgender darts fans out there!

We've created a victim culture and mentality in this country, where people can just cry if they feel offended or victimised. Grow some backbone for goodness sake peoples! If somebody feels offended by a pretty girl walking on stage or onto the grid, you have a remote control so change channel.

Does that mean we can apply this way of puritan thinking to raunchy music videos and have them banned as well? Fair's fair after all!

Should all Sex Shops and Ann Summers stores be forced to close, leaving people unemployed and worried about wages and paying the rent?

Should Moll Flanders and Lady Chatterley's Lover be banned from Waterstone's and the Classroom because of their 'adult content?'

Where does the madness end and common sense begin?

Years ago, my uncle was in the crowd when The Sex Pistols played a now infamous gig in Caerphilly. Locals tried to have that concert banned as well, but it went ahead regardless and no harm was done in the end.

It's a tad ironic that the 'we must ban' brigade are now almost exclusively on the left, whereas the Mary Whitehouse rabble in the 70s with their Christianity at all costs and ban the blasphemy diktat were all on the right!

 

[ncurd]

Unfortunately you are failing to ask the question where was concoufeny of calls for it to end? Sure a few people have said its a bit outdated but I don't remember it being a hot button topic for anyone most people just accepted it was the way of things and moved.

Darts did it immediately after the presidents club thing and it wasn't even part of the conversation it was solely on seedy parties for rich men and their gratification. However they were worried it would convey the same image. F1 have been debating this for some time.

But these were decisions made by the governing bodies and they were under no pressure from media to do so, in fact most media stories have either ignored it or had their usual PC gone mad knee jerk reaction to.

I'm not going to tell you neice what to do as long as she isn't subjected to harassment or assault in her workplace its her choice. If there is harassment I don't care if she can take care of herself, I worry about the person who can't who has taken the job because they need the money (by all accounts at the presidents club past and present there were plenty of women in both categories).

 

[GarethGriffiths]

If a girl needs money, there are plenty of other jobs out there that they can do other than be a hostess or walk on girl.

Nobody is making them do these jobs (it's not prostitution) so whilst nobody can condone the behaviour of these men, I am quite sure that these ladies had knowledge of what sort of environment they were potentially getting themselves into. If a girl is being forced against her will, that is entirely a different matter and there I agree action should be taken.

No media pressure directly, perhaps, but the ban hammer has been operating in the background for many years - consider the loss of Page 3 because a few puritans decided that their feelings and opinions mattered more than the careers of these models and the guys for whom Page 3 was part of their lives. Equating Page 3 with a perceived rape culture (I think this was what Baroness Jowell said at the time?) just added to the daftness - in parts of Africa, there is a definite rape culture amongst the tribes, but to say that the UK is the same as factually wrong and downright stupid.

It may just be me, but I think that certain people want to be offended and upset, and perhaps get off on forcing their opinions onto others.

My niece has recently quit social media due to quite abhorrent comments from supposed moralists that what she is doing is repulsive and she will burn in hell for showing her breasts, and I personally find these bullying comments more offensive than any Walk On Girl/Grid Girl. However, she also knows where to kick guys where it hurts as well - she would not hesitate to make any lecher sound like Barry Gibb.

Are you using a phone, by the way? Think you may have meant cacophony?

 

[ncurd]

My spelling is terrible (great at Maths/Logic can't write for ****) and the browser I was using refused to give me the correct spelling.....

Personally I'd ban the Sun rather Page 3 (and all tabloid reporting)

Not entirely true many people do jobs because its the most convenient for them to do and it pays the most the vast majority of people are probably in job they hate. In jobs like hostessing quite a few are out of work actress' or students just trying to get a few bob in between getting a full time work. They can't get a standard waitressing or barstaff work because they can't keep solid hours and need to pick up bit work here and there.

In regards to the presidents club specifically I suggest reading the original article in the Financial Times the hiring agency acted it quite a duplicitous manner and very definitely avoided telling their hire's what they might be subjected to.

Being a public face on social media unfortunately is a **** for anyone regardless of what they do just read the comments on virtually any profile. People are more interested in attacking people they hate than supporting what they enjoy. none of them are sadly that intelligent in doing so either way.

 

[die_mole]

it's nothing more than a business decision. The marginal effect of hot babes at events on revenue is zero so companies have finally figured out that they shouldn't bother paying them.

edit: marginal effect is probably negative considering the number of people that are either made uncomfortable/upset by it

 

[Which Tyler]

I think they exemplify and encourage objectification of women, and they've seemed like a slightly distasteful hang over from the past for a while.
Having said that, it's a pretty minor (if highly visible) example; so whilst it's a good thing that they've stopped, I struggle to care particularly much.

 

[GarethGriffiths]

The decision doesn't bother me personally, but I do think it is a shame for the girls who wanted to do this line of work.

If they had cried 'this is unfair and oppressive behaviour toward us, by forcing us out of work' I wonder if the whole furore would not have died down.

Interestingly, the feminists seem divided on this issue on social media - one lot say 'it's a woman's right to do what she wants, how dare people lecture them with what to do with their lives' whilst others applaud the decision.

Couldn't we have had some ugly walk-on girls for once? - you know, tolerance and diversity and all that jazz?

 

[RedruthRFC]

it's nothing more than a business decision. The marginal effect of hot babes at events on revenue is zero so companies have finally figured out that they shouldn't bother paying them.

edit: marginal effect is probably negative considering the number of people that are either made uncomfortable/upset by it

I can't follow any of this. I'm far from a fan of Barry Hearn, but I see no reason to disbelieve his stated reasoning for putting a stop to the walk on girls (I'd love to adopt an acronym rather than typing that each time, but I'd better not). I'd be amazed if more than a handful of the PDC's demographic stayed away because they were uncomfortable with the walk on girls. On the other hand over 40k people (so far) are bothered enough by this to have petitioned to have them reinstated and anecdotally, I've seen plenty of social media posts from people saying that they will be staying away over this. In view of this, and the overall nature of the PDC's product and demographic, I can't see why they wouldn't be worth the relative pittance that they cost.

 

[RedruthRFC]

Couldn't we have had some ugly walk-on girls for once? - you know, tolerance and diversity and all that jazz?

I love the attitude and logic that comments like this belie - if objectifying one group of people is offensive, objectifying more groups will make things better!

 

[die_mole]

I can't follow any of this. I'm far from a fan of Barry Hearn, but I see no reason to disbelieve his stated reasoning for putting a stop to the walk on girls (I'd love to adopt an acronym rather than typing that each time, but I'd better not). I'd be amazed if more than a handful of the PDC's demographic stayed away because they were uncomfortable with the walk on girls. On the other hand over 40k people (so far) are bothered enough by this to have petitioned to have them reinstated and anecdotally, I've seen plenty of social media posts from people saying that they will be staying away over this. In view of this, and the overall nature of the PDC's product and demographic, I can't see why they wouldn't be worth the relative pittance that they cost.

1. ever think that pdc might be trying to change their demographic.

2. people talk brave on social media and they tend to fall back on their old habits. of those 40k how many do you really think are going to stop watching? i'd venture very few of those are not going to watch pdc next year and if they don't, they probably didn't watch it this year

 

[RedruthRFC]

1. ever think that pdc might be trying to change their demographic.

2. people talk brave on social media and they tend to fall back on their old habits. of those 40k how many do you really think are going to stop watching? i'd venture very few of those are not going to watch pdc next year and if they don't, they probably didn't watch it this year

1. not for a second?

2. more than are put off watching by their presence

 

[die_mole]

1. not for a second?

2. more than are put off watching by their presence

1. i guess expand would be a better word than change

2. agree to disagree... all i heard about the nfl was people were going to stop watching cause of the protests, turns out more people watched

 

[RedruthRFC]

1. i guess expand would be a better word than change

2. agree to disagree... all i heard about the nfl was people were going to stop watching cause of the protests, turns out more people watched

1. of course they are, but it seems pretty clear that they are trying to achieve this by expanding the reach of the traveling circus. Germany in particular looks to be going well as to a lesser extent does Australia. The USA appears to be the next target on the list. Given the proliferation of cheerleaders in the USA, I can't see why Uncle Barry would see walk on girls as an impediment.

2. not according to a lot of articles I've read, but it's not something I've read around in depth. I was careful to use the word anecdotally when mentioning those threatening a boycott, you appear to have ignored this. Neither this group or those who are so terribly offended by walk on girls that they would turn off is going to be large enough to have any vaguely significant impact.

 

[GarethGriffiths]

Storm in a DD cup then

 

[McTallshort]

Nothing wrong with it, are we going to ban cheer leaders next? Stop Lisa Reilly from wearing short dresses on Countdown? Stop females wearing make up on TV?

What about all the music videos on MTV? Yeah those big feminist celebs like Beyonce strutting round in next to **** all but want to ban grid girls on Formula one? OK for some woman to make a living throwing themselves about half naked but its not ok for others?

Stinks of hypocrisy and double standards.

 

[GarethGriffiths]

Nothing wrong with it, are we going to ban cheer leaders next? Stop Lisa Reilly from wearing short dresses on Countdown? Stop females wearing make up on TV?

What about all the music videos on MTV? Yeah those big feminist celebs like Beyonce strutting round in next to **** all but want to ban grid girls on Formula one? OK for some woman to make a living throwing themselves about half naked but its not ok for others?

Stinks of hypocrisy and double standards.

Lisa Riley in a short dress?

I think you mean Rachel Riley - although Lisa can fit into one these days

Definitely agree with your last paragraph - complete hypocrisy from feminists who wouldn't dare scold Beyonce, Taylor Swift, Little Mix etc. for dressing sexily.

It's about controlling behaviour and nothing else.

Yesterday a bloke on the train had a t-shirt on that read "This is what a feminist looks like", and sure enough he had a flat chest and facial hair.

Phnar phnar.

 

[McTallshort]

Lisa Riley in a short dress?

I think you mean Rachel Riley - although Lisa can fit into one these days

Definitely agree with your last paragraph - complete hypocrisy from feminists who wouldn't dare scold Beyonce, Taylor Swift, Little Mix etc. for dressing sexily.

It's about controlling behaviour and nothing else.

Yesterday a bloke on the train had a t-shirt on that read "This is what a feminist looks like", and sure enough he had a flat chest and facial hair.

Phnar phnar.

Yes Rachael but always had a thing for Lisa but then I am 42

 

[RedruthRFC]

What about all the music videos on MTV? Yeah those big feminist celebs like Beyonce strutting round in next to **** all but want to ban grid girls on Formula one? OK for some woman to make a living throwing themselves about half naked but its not ok for others?

I take your point and have no idea who the arbiter of what is and isn't acceptable is, but the comparison doesn't exactly work. Beyoncé et al. are (I'm told) providing musical entertainment in addition to dressing like streetwalkers, others in MTV videos are contributing to something that could be argued to be a form of art in addition to being ***illating. Walk on girls and grid girls on the other hand serve no purpose other than to ***illate.