Good wingers in rugby

[lucky number 7]

Shane Horgan

Fixed

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

I think that NZ players (outside the AB squad) are overrated and are only considered top players because of the myth that hangs around New Zealand in rugby.

In South Africa we also have players that would do good in NH teams like Jongi Nokwe, Odwa & Akona Ndungane, Gerard van den Heever and JJ Engelbrecht but I will never say these are World Class wingers. Even Stefan Terblanche is a pretty good winger despite his age but when it comes to World Class, we only have Habana and Pietersen.

When I look at New Zealand I only see a max. of 3 or 4 World Class wingers.

 

[nickdnz]

I think that NZ players (outside the AB squad) are overrated and are only considered top players because of the myth that hangs around New Zealand in rugby.

In South Africa we also have players that would do good in NH teams like Jongi Nokwe, Odwa & Akona Ndungane, Gerard van den Heever and JJ Engelbrecht but I will never say these are World Class wingers. Even Stefan Terblanche is a pretty good winger despite his age but when it comes to World Class, we only have Habana and Pietersen.

When I look at New Zealand I only see a max. of 3 or 4 World Class wingers.

My first reaction to this post was a little annoyed. Choice of words like "I think that NZ players (outside the AB squad) are overrated and are only considered top players because of the myth that hangs around New Zealand in rugby" comes off as a fairly arrogant and antagonistic statement. Regardless, New Zealand only having 3-4 World Class wingers max, is still more than any other country. Hosea Gear, Cory Jane, Joe Rokocoko and Sitivini Sivivatu would probably be New Zealand's top 4 wingers, and considering you can't really have more than three wingers in a test squad, that seems like a pretty reasonable number of world class winger.


I'm a little confused as to where the attack on New Zealand's winger has come from though. There are plenty of wingers from New Zealand that are doing very well in the NH. Scott Hamilton, Bruce Reihana and Ben Blair have all had very successful careers in the NH, and none of them looked quite as exciting as some of the new talent coming through in New Zealand. Sherwin Stowers (7's Gold Medal), Lelia Masaga (2008 S14 Top Try Scorer), Julian Savea (IRB Junior Player of the Year) I think would all do very well playing for any team in the world, so I don't see why the negativity.

As it so happens, I don't rate JP Pieterson at all. I think he's the most over rated winger going around. Jongi Nokwe on the other hand, I think could have been the best winger in SA.

 

[Aedaphon]

I think that NZ players (outside the AB squad) are overrated and are only considered top players because of the myth that hangs around New Zealand in rugby.

I'm a Northern Hemisphere fan through and through but the Kiwi backs are sensational at the moment. Almost indisputably the best active fly half in rugby union, three world, class centres in SBW, Nonu and Smith (not to mention veteran McAlistair and Fruean coming through) and at least 6 international standard players in their back three (Muliaina, Dagg, Guildford, Gear, Jane and Toeava). And that's all capped players.

 

[Teh Mite]

Shane

He's a spin-bowler.

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

My first reaction to this post was a little annoyed. Choice of words like "I think that NZ players (outside the AB squad) are overrated and are only considered top players because of the myth that hangs around New Zealand in rugby" comes off as a fairly arrogant and antagonistic statement. Regardless, New Zealand only having 3-4 World Class wingers max, is still more than any other country. Hosea Gear, Cory Jane, Joe Rokocoko and Sitivini Sivivatu would probably be New Zealand's top 4 wingers, and considering you can't really have more than three wingers in a test squad, that seems like a pretty reasonable number of world class winger.


I'm a little confused as to where the attack on New Zealand's winger has come from though. There are plenty of wingers from New Zealand that are doing very well in the NH. Scott Hamilton, Bruce Reihana and Ben Blair have all had very successful careers in the NH, and none of them looked quite as exciting as some of the new talent coming through in New Zealand. Sherwin Stowers (7's Gold Medal), Lelia Masaga (2008 S14 Top Try Scorer), Julian Savea (IRB Junior Player of the Year) I think would all do very well playing for any team in the world, so I don't see why the negativity.

As it so happens, I don't rate JP Pieterson at all. I think he's the most over rated winger going around. Jongi Nokwe on the other hand, I think could have been the best winger in SA.

Okay, first of all, I didn't mean it in an arrogant way. I enjoy the NZ backs a lot, especially wingers like Gear and Rokocoko for instance but what bugs me a little is the way some people are talking about NZ rugby players like they could participate in the World Cup with 3 or 4 squads.

I am not attacking the NZ wingers, I just think that the other wingers are good, not World Class.

You rate Pietersen not as a top player but he has been struggling with injuries these last 2 years. When it comes to Nokwe I see that everybody outside of South Africa has high hopes for him but apart from 1 match against Australia it hasn't been a lot to talk about when it comes to top performances.

Nokwe scored 4 tries against Australia but there was not 1 single try that was a result of something he did. He was just at the receiving end, only having to ground the ball. The first real duel in the match, he went off injured.

I watched that match about 2 or 3 times and I cannot see anything that makes Nokwe a World Class player in the near future.

We have Lwazi Mvovo and Bjorn Basson who have been outstanding this year and I hope these 2 will develop further and I do rate these as possible future World Class wingers.

I admire the depth of NZ-wingers but I guess every country has something like that for other positions. In SA we have some amazing players developing to make the Springbok squad but not a lot of them are potential (that's the word I was looking for, jeez) World Class players.

 

[King_D'Arcy]

matt banahan

lol

 

[Amobokoboko]

Lelia Massaga and tim nai nai Williams ( altho he's a fullback)

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

Most fullbacks make perfect wingers or were once in their career.

 

[dan the man]

Okay, first of all, I didn't mean it in an arrogant way. I enjoy the NZ backs a lot, especially wingers like Gear and Rokocoko for instance but what bugs me a little is the way some people are talking about NZ rugby players like they could participate in the World Cup with 3 or 4 squads.

Lets face it dude, If NZ, Aussie, South Africa and England entered 2 teams each in the World cup they'd probably all have a good chance of getting to the knockout stages. I can't believe how many people are anti NZ getting excited about our up and coming players! and most of these guys are capped or have pretty good experience in either Junior World Cup, NZ 7's or strong performances in Super Rugby (the highest level of rugby below internationals)

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

Hey, I am not anti NZ, not at all. It's just that is bothers me sometimes how people who don't know anything about rugby, keep on saying that New Zealand is this and that blablabla.

 

[dan the man]

Well, this thread is about "Good Wingers" in Rugby so it's fine to mention them... I'm not gonna mention many wingers outside of NZ (who aren't international) because i don't really know any since i don't get to see them play very often

 

[Hulk Hogan]

Digby Ioane should be the only winger in the game.

 

[nickdnz]

Okay, first of all, I didn't mean it in an arrogant way. I enjoy the NZ backs a lot, especially wingers like Gear and Rokocoko for instance but what bugs me a little is the way some people are talking about NZ rugby players like they could participate in the World Cup with 3 or 4 squads.

I am not attacking the NZ wingers, I just think that the other wingers are good, not World Class.

You rate Pietersen not as a top player but he has been struggling with injuries these last 2 years. When it comes to Nokwe I see that everybody outside of South Africa has high hopes for him but apart from 1 match against Australia it hasn't been a lot to talk about when it comes to top performances.

Nokwe scored 4 tries against Australia but there was not 1 single try that was a result of something he did. He was just at the receiving end, only having to ground the ball. The first real duel in the match, he went off injured.

I watched that match about 2 or 3 times and I cannot see anything that makes Nokwe a World Class player in the near future.

We have Lwazi Mvovo and Bjorn Basson who have been outstanding this year and I hope these 2 will develop further and I do rate these as possible future World Class wingers.

I admire the depth of NZ-wingers but I guess every country has something like that for other positions. In SA we have some amazing players developing to make the Springbok squad but not a lot of them are potential (that's the word I was looking for, jeez) World Class players.

Well, that's all people are saying. New Zealand has many quality wingers. Not all of them are world class, but we have a good and strong pool of talent in the wings. South Africa have a deep pool of talent in loose forwards. That's a fact. It's a strength of South Africa. Of course if you take out enough key players from NZ, then we'll struggle. We struggled in 2009 without many key players, and we could do it again. We can however field a very strong second string squad, win the RWC with it? Of course not.

In terms of Nokwe, I'm not just rating his performance against Australia. A few of those tries were givens. I was most impressed with him in the Lions 3rd Test, when he almost gunned down Ugo Monye from 20m behind. I think he's got rabid speed. Playing for the Cheetah's doesn't do him any favours, but I think if he played for the Bulls, Sharks or Stormers, he'd still be a very good winger. I think Mvovo looks like a very good prospect in the future but despite Basson scoring a truck load of tries, I'm still not entirely convinced.

 

[welshglory]

Okay, first of all, I didn't mean it in an arrogant way. I enjoy the NZ backs a lot, especially wingers like Gear and Rokocoko for instance but what bugs me a little is the way some people are talking about NZ rugby players like they could participate in the World Cup with 3 or 4 squads.

I am not attacking the NZ wingers, I just think that the other wingers are good, not World Class.

You rate Pietersen not as a top player but he has been struggling with injuries these last 2 years. When it comes to Nokwe I see that everybody outside of South Africa has high hopes for him but apart from 1 match against Australia it hasn't been a lot to talk about when it comes to top performances.

Nokwe scored 4 tries against Australia but there was not 1 single try that was a result of something he did. He was just at the receiving end, only having to ground the ball. The first real duel in the match, he went off injured.

I watched that match about 2 or 3 times and I cannot see anything that makes Nokwe a World Class player in the near future.

We have Lwazi Mvovo and Bjorn Basson who have been outstanding this year and I hope these 2 will develop further and I do rate these as possible future World Class wingers.

I admire the depth of NZ-wingers but I guess every country has something like that for other positions. In SA we have some amazing players developing to make the Springbok squad but not a lot of them are potential (that's the word I was looking for, jeez) World Class players.

Its funny how you say this when your a south african and your back line is the worst in the tri nations

 

[Rhys Thomas]

Shane Williams and George North i think

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

Its funny how you say this when your a south african and your back line is the worst in the tri nations

First of all, I am not South African. Second of all, the Tri-Nations backline consisted of:

- Bryan Habana who was off form dramatically
- Jean de Villiers who was abused as a winger but is a centre, everybody knows that
- Zane Kirchner, a player who hasn't even performed consistenly enough for a starting spot in the Bulls lineup.

South Africa has always had a better forwards, New Zealand has always had better backs. I just don't think that the NZ wingers outside Rokocoko, Gear and Jane it's just not world class, just like we only have 2 or 3 wingers that can top the world.

 

[dan the man]

First of all, I am not South African. Second of all, the Tri-Nations backline consisted of:

- Bryan Habana who was off form dramatically
- Jean de Villiers who was abused as a winger but is a centre, everybody knows that
- Zane Kirchner, a player who hasn't even performed consistenly enough for a starting spot in the Bulls lineup.

South Africa has always had a better forwards, New Zealand has always had better backs. I just don't think that the NZ wingers outside Rokocoko, Gear and Jane it's just not world class, just like we only have 2 or 3 wingers that can top the world.

Hmmm... I'd have to say that the AB's have a much better forward pack than the Boks,

Tony Woodcock (best loosehead on the world)
Keven Mealamu (best hooker in the world)
Brad Thorn (not as good in the line-out as Matfield but better in general gameplay)
Jerome Kiano (hardest working 6 in the world)
Richie McCaw (duh)
Kieran Read (best no.8 in the world, better than Spies by a mile!)

note: although Kiano may not be the best in the world (he'd be in the top 3) the NZ back-row is by far the best in the world, the three of them link up so well!

 

[nickdnz]

Umm, why start a South Africa v New Zealand thing at this point? It is just going to start trouble.

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

I don't see the use in that either. All I said is that most NZ wingers are good, not world class and that by a lot of people, the All Blacks are seen as some mythical team when it's just a top class Rugby team, nothing more.