German Rugby

[RoosTah]

RL has always been more popular than RU in Australia? Even in the golden years of Wallabies? (1991-2003). Because now you have 14 Aussies teams in NRL and only 5 teams in Super Rugby. And from what I heard, the 14 Aussies NRL teams have bigger budget and larger crowd than the 5 Aussies Super Rugby teams. It's a very strange situation, among the countries with a long tradition in rugby, Australia is the only country where the League is bigger than the Union.

Yeah, league has always been bigger here. Early on the game was just quite a bit more entrepreneurial in Australia than Union was, and just far more open to participation. It was also adopted by a lot of increasingly important groups - the Labour unions loved it, and so did all the Catholic schools and state schools. So it ended up having a mix of public and private interests. Meanwhile, rugby hurt itself by remaining amateur and confined very much to the WASPs for the first 60 or so years of the 20th century.

The game has been changing for the better since the 80s (way more public schools like my old one play it now, so it's not just a private school thing anymore) and it's generally a lot more inclusive. That said, it's support base in places like Sydney is still pretty limited to the east and north, so if the tahs play game out west at places like homebush, hardly anyone turns up.

 

[Jaguares]

Yeah, league has always been bigger here. Early on the game was just quite a bit more entrepreneurial in Australia than Union was, and just far more open to participation. It was also adopted by a lot of increasingly important groups - the Labour unions loved it, and so did all the Catholic schools and state schools. So it ended up having a mix of public and private interests. Meanwhile, rugby hurt itself by remaining amateur and confined very much to the WASPs for the first 60 or so years of the 20th century.

The game has been changing for the better since the 80s (way more public schools like my old one play it now, so it's not just a private school thing anymore) and it's generally a lot more inclusive. That said, it's support base in places like Sydney is still pretty limited to the east and north, so if the tahs play game out west at places like homebush, hardly anyone turns up.

Sad to hear this, for a crazy Union supporter like me. What is the relationship between League supporters and Union supporters? They hate each other as in England?

Is Brisbane the city with the largest number of Union supporters? If that's true. Queensland is the region with the largest number of Union supporters too?

 

[RoosTah]

Mckenzie pretty much went along with public opinion ("I'd play Quade") which he knew would get himself the job..my theory anyway. Recall the Aussie public lamenting his absence and using it as a stick to hit Deans with.

The crap that Deans copped was beyond the pale. People judged him purely on how we did against the All Blacks and ignored our dominance of teams like Wales and South Africa. Ultimately he had long enough in the job, but a lot of the criticisms Deans copped was pretty unfair. At the end of the day people in Australia just have trouble grasping that our Union team just isn't as skillful and talent rich as our League one because it's just not got the financial and human resources behind it.

Sad to hear this, for a crazy Union supporter like me. What is the relationship between League supporters and Union supporters? They hate each other as in England?

Is Brisbane the city with the largest number of Union supporters? If that's true. Queensland is the region with the largest number of Union supporters too?

Queensland is at the moment, yes, but traditionally NSW is larger. Qld has been helped by a complete overhaul in their management that has run the Reds in a far more business savvy way that focusses heavily on increasing participation both on the field and at the games. That said, Rugby League is still much stronger up in Brisbane too. The Broncos are universally loved and the game enjoys incredible support. Brisbane is pretty well the only place in the country where you can almost guarantee a sell-out for a Kangaroos international (in Sydney, it's less likely as the incredible dominance of the Kangaroos and the relative weakness of England and NZ makes people less interested in watching them). For Queenslanders, I'd argue that the Kangaroos are the most iconic Australian international team - the jersey is also the Aussie equivalent to the All Blacks in that it has never really changed in the past 60 or so years (All Blacks is over 100 years of course).

In NSW Rugby may see a resurgence if things keep as they are though. I was at the Tahs v Bulls game yesterday, and it was a great crowd. People are impressed with Cheika and what he's doing, and the Waratahs management are being more proactive in recruiting fans.

Again, the challenge is for Aussie teams to be playing attractive running Rugby. It's a big deal here precisely because of the competition; both AFL and Rugby League are open, free flowing attacking games, so it's what people expect. Incidentally that's one of the challenges soccer faced here too. People saw it as an oppressive and negative sport because of the low scores. That's the same problem Rugby has here when games are dominated by penalties. The trick is teaching people to appreciate that the game isn't necessarily all about high scoring open attacking play. They've achieved that with soccer now, but it still needs to be done with Union.

 

[Jaguares]

Queensland is at the moment, yes, but traditionally NSW is larger. Qld has been helped by a complete overhaul in their management that has run the Reds in a far more business savvy way that focusses heavily on increasing participation both on the field and at the games. That said, Rugby League is still much stronger up in Brisbane too. The Broncos are universally loved and the game enjoys incredible support. Brisbane is pretty well the only place in the country where you can almost guarantee a sell-out for a Kangaroos international (in Sydney, it's less likely as the incredible dominance of the Kangaroos and the relative weakness of England and NZ makes people less interested in watching them). For Queenslanders, I'd argue that the Kangaroos are the most iconic Australian international team - the jersey is also the Aussie equivalent to the All Blacks in that it has never really changed in the past 60 or so years (All Blacks is over 100 years of course).

In NSW Rugby may see a resurgence if things keep as they are though. I was at the Tahs v Bulls game yesterday, and it was a great crowd. People are impressed with Cheika and what he's doing, and the Waratahs management are being more proactive in recruiting fans.

Again, the challenge is for Aussie teams to be playing attractive running Rugby. It's a big deal here precisely because of the competition; both AFL and Rugby League are open, free flowing attacking games, so it's what people expect. Incidentally that's one of the challenges soccer faced here too. People saw it as an oppressive and negative sport because of the low scores. That's the same problem Rugby has here when games are dominated by penalties. The trick is teaching people to appreciate that the game isn't necessarily all about high scoring open attacking play. They've achieved that with soccer now, but it still needs to be done with Union.

Ok, what is the relationship between League supporters and Union supporters? They hate each other as in England?

 

[RoosTah]

Ok, what is the relationship between League supporters and Union supporters? They hate each other as in England?

There's a bit of animosity, but nothing like it is in England where there is a pretty nasty class divide. In Brisbane you'll often see guys with Queensland "Maroons" Origin Rugby League jerseys or Broncos jerseys, and I've seen my fair share of NSW "Blues" Origin jerseys at Tahs games.

For most League supporters they just get annoyed with Union more than anything because of all the penalties and kicking, but plenty still watch it - particularly for big games like Qld v NSW or big Wallabies matches. I'd argue there used to be more interest from League fans though, because Union went pro at a time when League was tearing itself apart with the "Super League War" which destroyed a lot of old clubs and divided people everywhere (late 90s). As a result a lot of League people started watching Union almost in protest. It didn't hurt that when Super Rugby first started, it was a try-fest too. But now League has its house in order and Union is a lot less open there's a lot less of that.

 

[Jaguares]

There's a bit of animosity, but nothing like it is in England where there is a pretty nasty class divide. In Brisbane you'll often see guys with Queensland "Maroons" Origin Rugby League jerseys or Broncos jerseys, and I've seen my fair share of NSW "Blues" Origin jerseys at Tahs games.

For most League supporters they just get annoyed with Union more than anything because of all the penalties and kicking, but plenty still watch it - particularly for big games like Qld v NSW or big Wallabies matches. I'd argue there used to be more interest from League fans though, because Union went pro at a time when League was tearing itself apart with the "Super League War" which destroyed a lot of old clubs and divided people everywhere (late 90s). As a result a lot of League people started watching Union almost in protest. It didn't hurt that when Super Rugby first started, it was a try-fest too. But now League has its house in order and Union is a lot less open there's a lot less of that.

Do you mean that in Queensland, there are people who support Reds and Broncos at the same time?

AFL players are physically similar than Rugby players (Athletes of about 100 kg) or they are thinner? I remember when Israel Folau left the AFL to play in Super Rugby, he had to gain about 8 kgs.

 

[RoosTah]

Do you mean that in Queensland, there are people who support Reds and Broncos at the same time?

AFL players are physically similar than Rugby players (Athletes of about 100 kg) or they are thinner? I remember when Israel Folau left the AFL to play in Super Rugby, he had to gain about 8 kgs.

Yeah absolutely there are. In fact there are plenty of cross code fans all round. Last night at the Tahs I saw guys with Sydney FC soccer gear, Rugby League gear and even guys with Swans scarves. There are some heavy code warriors who won't watch anything else, but there's also plenty of cross code pollination. I personally go to plenty of Tahs Super matchs and Roosters NRL games, and will also go to the AFL on occasion (my Dad is a massive Swans fan).

AFL players are more like basketballers really; neither excessively bulky like a League player or Union forward, but not too thin like soccer players either. In terms of all round fitness, I'd say the AFL guys are probably the best as a result as they cover enormous territory, but also have to jump and tackle really well.

 

[Jaguares]

Yeah absolutely there are. In fact there are plenty of cross code fans all round. Last night at the Tahs I saw guys with Sydney FC soccer gear, Rugby League gear and even guys with Swans scarves. There are some heavy code warriors who won't watch anything else, but there's also plenty of cross code pollination. I personally go to plenty of Tahs Super matchs and Roosters NRL games, and will also go to the AFL on occasion (my Dad is a massive Swans fan).

AFL players are more like basketballers really; neither excessively bulky like a League player or Union forward, but not too thin like soccer players either. In terms of all round fitness, I'd say the AFL guys are probably the best as a result as they cover enormous territory, but also have to jump and tackle really well.

So there are many Aussies who support both codes? Their first sport is League and their second sport is Union?

Then, AFL players can't play Union? Like NRL players who can play both codes like SBW, Wendell Sailor, Lote Tuqiri, Joe Tomane or Israel Folau.

 

[SimonG]

Hang on a second..AFL is riddled with steroid use. It's also a stop start game (mark called each and every time), plus there are constant substitutions. Wouldn't put these fellas anywhere near the best athletes.

"Australia only country where league bigger than Union"..this is not strictly true Conrad. There is very little in it in England at club level. Infact league gets more viewers on Sky than the Union club game. Both codes receive roughly similar coverage in news bulletins, sky sports news, newspapers etc. Lets say football is 80%, Union and League would get around 5-10% each. The major difference is that Union has internationals. Plus Union being played in the more affluent south gives it a financial edge over League with its heartland being in the working class northern towns.

 

[Jaguares]

Hang on a second..AFL is riddled with steroid use. It's also a stop start game (mark called each and every time), plus there are constant substitutions. Wouldn't put these fellas anywhere near the best athletes.

"Australia only country where league bigger than Union"..this is not strictly true Conrad. There is very little in it in England at club level. Infact league gets more viewers on Sky than the Union club game. Both codes receive roughly similar coverage in news bulletins, sky sports news, newspapers etc. Lets say football is 80%, Union and League would get around 5-10% each. The major difference is that Union has internationals. Plus Union being played in the more affluent south gives it a financial edge over League with its heartland being in the working class northern towns.

http://www.ipsos-mori.com/researchp...Union-Britains-Second-Most-Popular-Sport.aspx

*Association football 46%
*Rugby Union 21%
*Tennis 18%
*Cricket 18%
*Athletics 18%
*Snooker 17%
*Motor racing 16%
*Rugby League 12%
*Boxing 11%
*Golf 11%
*Darts 9%

 

[LittleGuy]

Yeah absolutely there are. In fact there are plenty of cross code fans all round. Last night at the Tahs I saw guys with Sydney FC soccer gear, Rugby League gear and even guys with Swans scarves. There are some heavy code warriors who won't watch anything else, but there's also plenty of cross code pollination. I personally go to plenty of Tahs Super matchs and Roosters NRL games, and will also go to the AFL on occasion (my Dad is a massive Swans fan).

AFL players are more like basketballers really; neither excessively bulky like a League player or Union forward, but not too thin like soccer players either. In terms of all round fitness, I'd say the AFL guys are probably the best as a result as they cover enormous territory, but also have to jump and tackle really well.

Do you professionally attend others? Or does your split personality go to different events at the same time? Sorry to be an utter cock Sanzar but "I personally" is a completely reduntant, "I" is the proper form.

"I personally" seems to have really come on in the last 10 years or so, I think(see what I did there...ohh wait I did it again...oh and again) it's a side product of PC crap, where we all run around frightened of our own opinions just in case they stir up the over sensitive victim mongers lurking around the corner, it happens in everything, I even see it when people discuss things as mundane as what films they like.

 

[Big Ewis]

well it's not so much the grammatical accuracy we're looking at with "I personally" but rather the implied sense. "I personally believe" attempts a more humble stance, rather than "I believe...".

 

[RoosTah]

So there are many Aussies who support both codes? Their first sport is League and their second sport is Union?

Then, AFL players can't play Union? Like NRL players who can play both codes like SBW, Wendell Sailor, Lote Tuqiri, Joe Tomane or Israel Folau.

Yeah sure there are. But it's funny the mix of sports people will follow sometimes.

Hang on a second..AFL is riddled with steroid use. It's also a stop start game (mark called each and every time), plus there are constant substitutions. Wouldn't put these fellas anywhere near the best athletes.

Stop start is a relative term. Rugby League is technically stop start, but both AFL and League have the ball in play a lot more than Union.


As to the steroid use, or rather "peptide" program, it really revolved around one or two clubs and one corrupt "nutritional specialist" named Stephen Dank. So it's hardly rampant. On balance, I'd still argue AFL has e most all round fitness demands of any football code I know of.

Do you professionally attend others? Or does your split personality go to different events at the same time? Sorry to be an utter cock Sanzar but "I personally" is a completely reduntant, "I" is the proper form.

Yeah fair enough, we all have our pet peeves. Mine is when people say "strategic planning" - really big in the corporate world but it's a pretentious tautology.

 

[LittleGuy]

well it's not so much the grammatical accuracy we're looking at with "I personally" but rather the implied sense. "I personally believe" attempts a more humble stance, rather than "I believe...".

Than say, I humbly beleive. It's completely reduntant to say "I personally" of course you personally think something. And in most cases a humble stance is entirely unnessecary, there is no need to be humble in your taste for movies or music for example.

Yeah sure there are. But it's funny the mix of sports people will follow sometimes.




Stop start is a relative term. Rugby League is technically stop start, but both AFL and League have the ball in play a lot more than Union.


As to the steroid use, or rather "peptide" program, it really revolved around one or two clubs and one corrupt "nutritional specialist" named Stephen Dank. So it's hardly rampant. On balance, I'd still argue AFL has e most all round fitness demands of any football code I know of.





Yeah fair enough, we all have our pet peeves. Mine is when people say "strategic planning" - really big in the corporate world but it's a pretentious tautology.

Yeah that's another annoying one, the corporate world is a litany of these little tautology's. Too much group think and overdoing of the PR staff.

 

[goodNumber10]

I've a couple of users in this thread blocked so apologies if i'm repeating anything, but I always thought the growth of rugby Union in the south of France was down to industrialisation coupled with the knowledge flow from the Paris education system.

Rugby League was very popular but almost wiped out due to the vichy.

 

[Big Ewis]

Than say, I humbly beleive. It's completely reduntant to say "I personally" of course you personally think something. And in most cases a humble stance is entirely unnessecary, there is no need to be humble in your taste for movies or music for example.

aaahhh, but do you ? Do people, really ?
"People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use.", Soren Kierkegaard.

 

[SimonG]

http://www.ipsos-mori.com/researchp...Union-Britains-Second-Most-Popular-Sport.aspx

*Association football 46%
*Rugby Union 21%
*Tennis 18%
*Cricket 18%
*Athletics 18%
*Snooker 17%
*Motor racing 16%
*Rugby League 12%
*Boxing 11%
*Golf 11%
*Darts 9%

Well aware of the Mori poll (it was me who referenced it) but no way are the percentages anywhere near accurate in terms of media profile and viewing audiences. Routinely buy papers (Mail, Mirror, Express) and on a normal day the first eight pages out of ten at the back would be football...then Union, League (and the others) would take up the remaining two. A one hour Sky Sports News program would follow a similar percentage. Also the Super League routinely has higher weekly viewing figures (300,000) than Union club games. Also the Mori poll takes in all of the UK (Wales and Scotland...where only Union is followed) so you'd need to remove both figures to be left with the England figure. As i said, at club level in England there is very little in it between League and Union.

Sanzar a number of insiders have stated the AFL has long had a steroid culture, to naively think that "one of two clubs" were at it is clutching at straws. When the governing body of a sport covers it up then you know the game is riddled in it. This alone precludes any discussion of these folks as top athletes..never mind the stop start nature of the game, constant breaks, constant substitutions, and the fact it's just 60 minutes play (and broken up into three).

 

[RoosTah]

Sanzar a number of insiders have stated the AFL has long had a steroid culture, to naively think that "one of two clubs" were at it is clutching at straws. When the governing body of a sport covers it up then you know the game is riddled in it. This alone precludes any discussion of these folks as top athletes..never mind the stop start nature of the game, constant breaks, constant substitutions, and the fact it's just 60 minutes play (and broken up into three).

I suppose it's possible, but until any evidence comes out that's just heresay. You're wrong about the match length too. You're thinking of American Football. In Australian Football the quarters are 20 mins of actual play, but they can often last longer when you include marks etc, which is why the game goes for about 3 hrs over all.

In any case, if you want to know whether the game is tough, just ask Israel Folau. He's on the record as saying it's a very tough game and required him to trim down to cope with the greater endurance demands. To be fair, it was no where near as physically tough on his body than League in terms of collisions though. But then no game is apart from maybe American Football.

 

[SimonG]

And until any evidence comes out about Flo-Jo it's just...heresay. In all likelihood the AFL steroid culture will never be officially published as there isn't any international pressure to do so (think Lance Armstrong and US Postal team). The AFL is a parochial game with no outside jurisdiction so it can pretty much do as it pleases with regards to its drug culture. Self preservation. It became that well known in Oz it was used as a plot in Neighbours quite a few years back....doctor Karl was having none of it.

What the clock stops when a mark is called?

 

[RoosTah]

You seem to have a bit of a beef with the AFL... I hear that a lot of Irish people don't like the game because they perceive it as being a thuggish form of Gaelic Football, but I didn't know it ran so deep.