George North to be captured by Gatland's Law

[MojoPin]

Well, this is interesting for Wales fans: http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/george-north-captured-gatlands-law-11859999

Seems the fabled 'Gatland's Law' will indeed be taking effect soon, with a list of players that will have to rely on one of two wildcard selections to be published imminently. I would have thought North would have been a dead cert, but it depends who else is on that list I guess. I mean Jamie Roberts must be, for one, along with Faletau. Taulupe is absolutely 100% certain to be a wildcard, so that leaves one spot up for grabs.

Thoughts?

 

[Every Time Ref]

Fingers crossed Faletau and Charteris don't get the wildcard spots

 

[MojoPin]

Fingers crossed Faletau and Charteris don't get the wildcard spots

Faletau will, no question. Probably our best player right now. Charteris might not be so lucky though, which would be good for Bath but bad for Wales as he's our best lock next to Alun Wyn Jones.

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

Are the Frenglish clubs getting worse at releasing Welsh players in the international windows? We don't seem to have much trouble with Scottish players in those leagues being released. It seems a harsh rule if it is only designed to strengthen the Welsh regions (whereas I agree with the Argentine rule).

 

[ncurd]

I don't know about the French leagues but I believe most English clubs the player signs contracts that allows them to be released early for international windows.

Still I'm pro the rule I'd rather they instigated and English approach of zero tolerance to playing outside. It's worked because it both benefits the RFU and English Club. The RFU gets no monkey business from the clubs when it comes to centralised contracts and player availiability. The clubs haven't seen a mass exodus of international class (in the eyes of the English Head coach) players to France.

 

[smartcooky]

[TEXTAREA]"North believed he would be exempt from needing a wildcard on the grounds that there was no offer on the table from a Welsh side when he penned his latest contract extension with Northampton."[/TEXTAREA]

So, were there no offers at all, or were there no offers that were for enough money. I ask this because it seems highly unfair to potentially exclude him under Gatland's Law from international selection for not playing for a Welsh Pro12 team, when no Welsh Pro12 team wanted him.

 

[ncurd]

[TEXTAREA]"North believed he would be exempt from needing a wildcard on the grounds that there was no offer on the table from a Welsh side when he penned his latest contract extension with Northampton."[/TEXTAREA]

So, were there no offers at all, or were there no offers that were for enough money. I ask this because it seems highly unfair to potentially exclude him under Gatland's Law from international selection for not playing for a Welsh Pro12 team, when no Welsh Pro12 team wanted him.

More likely he gave his asking price and nobody was willing to even begin negotiations.

 

[Maverick1987]

More likely he gave his asking price and nobody was willing to even begin negotiations.

Exactly ..... the Welsh regions are very keen on this law because they want to improve . The loopholes are apparently being closed next year . I think it's unfair on people like AWJ and Warburton who have committed their futures to Welsh rugby to have someone like North who went to England for money (I don't blame him by the way but you must understand the repercussion) walk into the side . I live in Wales and people don't want to watch the regions because they don't get to see the big players there . Most the time it's half a full strength team playing ......

Who are the "captured" players as it stands ?

 

[smartcooky]

So what the WRU are effectively saying is that, if you really want to play for Wales, you might have to be prepared to take a lower salary than you want in order to be attractive to a Welsh Region. If so, then that is a policy that can only be a good thing for Welsh rugby in the long term.

 

[Maverick1987]

So what the WRU are effectively saying is that, if you really want to play for Wales, you might have to be prepared to take a lower salary than you want in order to be attractive to a Welsh Region. If so, then that is a policy that can only be a good thing for Welsh rugby in the long term.

Yeh definitely . It's certainly something that might damage Wales in the short term but hopefully help them in the long run

 

[Which Tyler]

Who are the "captured" players as it stands ?

Off the top of my head, he gets 3 from North, Faletau, Charteris, Priestland, Halfpenny(?), Roberts, Francis, Jarvis, Day - I've probably missed some though

So what the WRU are effectively saying is that, if you really want to play for Wales, you might have to be prepared to take a lower salary than you want in order to be attractive to a Welsh Region. If so, then that is a policy that can only be a good thing for Welsh rugby in the long term.

Basically, yes, though Garland's law has yet to be actively applied, rather than theoretically. This time though, the WRU have central contracts they're trying to push / protect

 

[Lé Ddanno]

Off the top of my head, he gets 3 from North, Faletau, Charteris, Priestland, Halfpenny, Roberts, Francis, Jarvis, Day - I'm bound to have missed some though

Basically, yes, though Garland's law has yet to be actively applied, rather than theoretically. This time though, the WRU have central contracts they're trying to push / protect

Phillips

:lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[Which Tyler]

Nah, cant believe he had ANY other offers, let alone Welsh ones

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Yeh definitely . It's certainly something that might damage Wales in the short term but hopefully help them in the long run

Wouldn't bank on it. You see in Wendyball that many players prefer the Bucks of the club game to the alleged kudos of the international game. If there are good enough opps overseas, that trend, if not the amounts, will increasingly be evident in rugby.

In addition to the money, the Pro 12 is pretty lacklustre compared to the AP or Top 14 and you can understand players wanting to play in the best competitions. Likewise the Welsh record in Europe is also pretty lamentable, although there may be some cause and effect at play. Looking in from the outside it looks like the Welsh public have never embraced the regional concept with same fervour that they used to support their clubs.

 

[Peat]

Wouldn't bank on it. You see in Wendyball that many players prefer the Bucks of the club game to the alleged kudos of the international game. If there are good enough opps overseas, that trend, if not the amounts, will increasingly be evident in rugby.

In addition to the money, the Pro 12 is pretty lacklustre compared to the AP or Top 14 and you can understand players wanting to play in the best competitions. Likewise the Welsh record in Europe is also pretty lamentable, although there may be some cause and effect at play. Looking in from the outside it looks like the Welsh public have never embraced the regional concept with same fervour that they used to support their clubs.

I don't know how much Wales pay their internationals, but between international money and greater commercial opportunities, I don't think English/French club salaries alone hugely outweigh that.

 

[j'nuh]

So what the WRU are effectively saying is that, if you really want to play for Wales, you might have to be prepared to take a lower salary than you want in order to be attractive to a Welsh Region. If so, then that is a policy that can only be a good thing for Welsh rugby in the long term.

Well, apparently Gatland's Law does not apply "to anyone who is offered a Welsh-based deal deemed to be below the market value". (http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/gatlands-law-uncovered-full-revealing-9240603)

Which is an absolutely terrible exception. Wales are losing players because they cannot pay the market value for them. This exception could apply to literally any player playing outside of Wales. Which means the execution of this law will either be selective, undermining the law, or unused.

IMO, execution of this agreement is good for the clubs, but may end up with mixed results for Wales.

On the one hand, Wales will have to plough ever increasing amounts into the regions to keep their stars if they want to keep up with English and French money. They might lose a whole bunch of youngsters to other countries, especially England. There will also be a bunch of players who would rather take the guaranteed money of England vs the chance of a Wales cap. Some players will worry about moving back to Wales only to find themselves out of the Wales plan anyway. Take Moriarty - do you stay in Gloucester for the money, or move back to Wales on the assumption that you'll beat Lydiate, Tipuric and any other newcomer to the one available flanker spot? Does Halfpenny move away from the crazy money of Toulon on the assumption he will stay permanently ahead of Williams?

On the other hand, what is good for the regions may ultimately be good for Wales. Bringing youngsters into a European-challenging regional game should be good for player growth. Whether those youngsters get a chance is another matter though. Every player that leaves Wales opens up a position for a youngster.

 

[smartcooky]

They might lose a whole bunch of youngsters to other countries, especially England. There will also be a bunch of players who would rather take the guaranteed money of England vs the chance of a Wales cap.

We have the same problem here but its with Aussie Rugby League.

Their talent scouts are always over here, lurking around School 1st XV Rugby matches, offering 15-16 year olds obscene amounts of money to sign with NRL clubs for 3 or 4 year contracts.

Some of them act quite aggressively in going after what they want, so much so, that some schools have banned them from the school grounds if they find them operating there. This doesn't seem to stop them though, they are not past following players home from school, and they have been known to approach the parents and/or the children in the street to make their pitch.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

I don't know how much Wales pay their internationals, but between international money and greater commercial opportunities, I don't think English/French club salaries alone hugely outweigh that.

Probably not for the top players, but it might well be a live issue for the next tier down / fringe players.

 

[Which Tyler]

You pays your money, you makes your choice.

For a fully fledged international, the Welsh Region + Central Contract isn't going to be any/much below the salary available in France / England; and you'll get looked after a hell of a lot better.
For the next level down, the Welsh Region (who can now afford to pay you more) + International appearance fees won't be too far from what's available overseas, and allows the chance of getting that central contract further down the line.
For the fringe-at-best players, they'll be able to earn more money overseas, but will be taking the choice to not earn caps, and the boost to earnings and kudos, that brings.

 

[Maverick1987]

Wouldn't bank on it. You see in Wendyball that many players prefer the Bucks of the club game to the alleged kudos of the international game. If there are good enough opps overseas, that trend, if not the amounts, will increasingly be evident in rugby.

In addition to the money, the Pro 12 is pretty lacklustre compared to the AP or Top 14 and you can understand players wanting to play in the best competitions. Likewise the Welsh record in Europe is also pretty lamentable, although there may be some cause and effect at play. Looking in from the outside it looks like the Welsh public have never embraced the regional concept with same fervour that they used to support their clubs.

I think you hugely underestimate how much Wales means to most of the players . If the salary was even reasonably close I can almost guarantee 9 out of 10 players would stay in Wales