French Top14 shown on Sky Sports

[lynam1104]

How dare you insult curling, I request an immediate ban for Tony as he lack appreciation for the superstars of world curling.

 

[gaston le gaff]

Excellent news for you boys back in Blighty if the broadcasts are direct to get to see the best league in Europe if not the World most of the world's class players from all over the world, including your Sexton, Flood, Roberts Davies etc, get a feel for the packed stadiums every week, and the atmosphere that they create, truly a bonus for all rugby fans the other side of the channel. You will not learn much from referees but we don't either, there are down sides to Utopia!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[FrenchFan]

yep best league in Europe by a mile. Its now harder to win the Top14 than HCup.

 

[TheSaffycen]

I would say that is the case for almost every league in the world. I would say the Aviva and Super Rugby are harder to win than the HCup because you have to be at a high level for 20+ games, whereas a cup competition you just need to be at your best for 3 knockout games. It takes a lot less squad strain to win than the league.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

It's harder to get out of a difficult HEC group than to win the top 14 or the premiership, just ask Castres.

 

[Big Ewis]

yep best league in Europe by a mile. Its now harder to win the Top14 than HCup.

It's harder to get out of a difficult HEC group than to win the top 14 or the premiership, just ask Castres.

hmmm...I think both those statements are wrong.
On one hand the Top 14 has attracted so many foreigners, developed so many good players and is swarming with so many quality teams that it's turned into a very industry, one that breathes life without any sort of dependency or correlation to the "outside world", or the rest of the Rugby world. It's a platform of its own, entirely isolated from anything else whatsoever, and entirely auto-dependent and self-fulfilling. So the level is very high, the stakes just as high for each team from ranked 1 to 14.

On the other hand, when some of those Top 14 teams are confronted to exterior opposition (i.e. during the HC) they just can't play to their ability anymore because they're up against sides that have adapted a whole lot better. Granted that's a flaw of its own, but Castres aren't of that level they displayed throughout their HC run this year in the pools.
Montpellier also deserved much more and got a bit unlucky as well against the Tigers and that period of the year was their down-period, even in the T14.

Toulouse, I've got new excuse or good reason for their demise. Their pool stage was a veritable ode to their identity. Beat everybody incl. Sarries both away and home, but lose to Rabo-worst Connacht, and at home. They are quite erratic in the T14 too.

A tournament is as good/as hard as the sum of its participants, and obviously when you have the likes of Munster, Ulster, Leinster and such opposition in the elimination phases, it's a level up from Castres and the bottom of the top 6 in the Top14 who qualify for the playoffs. Not by a whole lot to be honest, but a noticeable difference yet.

 

[FrenchFan]

nope. Castres priority is the Top14. Never heard Castres saying they see themselves in contention for the HCup. They don't have the squad and budget to manage both.
Its become harder to win the Top14, they know, they won it last year.

 

[FrenchFan]

Under the current Top14 model there's only 3 teams that seriously claim to be competitive in both competition i.e. Toulouse Toulon Clermont, Castres are not one of them. They know that full well down in Castres.

 

[FrenchFan]

Under the current Top14 model there's only 3 teams that can seriously manage both competitions i.e. Toulouse Toulon Clermont, Castres are not one of them. They know that full well down in Castres.

 

[TheSaffycen]

nope. Castres priority is the Top14. Never heard Castres saying they see themselves in contention for the HCup. They don't have the squad and budget to manage both.
Its become harder to win the Top14, they know, they won it last year.

your comment contradicts itself, it's harder to win the Top 14 and they know as they won it. But they can't compete in the HCup as they don't see themselves in contention for it. So they went for trying to win the harder option because of their squad and budget?

 

[FrenchFan]

not its not. Im just stating a fact. Castres are not contenders in HCup, they'll be the first to admit it if you talked to them, but you don't so Im not sure you can talk about what their ambition really is. qualifying out of HCup pool involves getting result over 4 games. Not the same as surviving the barrage of games week in week out agst the likes of Toulouse Toulon Clermont SF etc
thats why i say its harder now to win the league here than HCup.

 

[ratsapprentice]

You are probably right but you had to watch them late into the night or very early the next day often as they were recorded and shown later due to some insignificant other sort like curling taking precedence. Even then, they were just the match without any preamble or review which BT introduced but then, other than the Wasps fullback, BT had idiots who either had difficulty stringing two words together or knew little about French rugby.....mind you they did have two of the best commentators!

That's just not true - it's always been available at reasonable times. 7-8pm normally.

The volume might be increasing - but TOP14 coverage is not new!

 

[gaston le gaff]

There are certain clubs who have the ability to play both TOP 14 and the H Cup, these are mentioned above certainly Clermont and Toulon, the proof they are still in it and were finalists last season, but even Montpellier are still not able to confront both competions to a degree of 100%, maybe next season.
The TOP 14 is super a competitive so if you want both you need a massive quality squad, and at the end of the day ask 90%of the current TOP 14 and they will want the Bouclier before the H Cup.
The French clubs of course take the revenue from the H Cup but they do not need it to survive, that is one of the big differences between the British, Irish and French clubs. When i say that i am talking not about all, but most of the British and Irish clubs.

 

[Big Ewis]

it's true of course there's also the concept of certain teams giving more importance to the H Cup than others.

For England, the national team still is a priority and well (and I agree with that conception and mindset), and I think there's an emphasis on Prem because it's the local league, it's big, and they know they have basically no chance at the H Cup so I feel English fans and authorities feel like it's just bonus if they make it. This year for e.g. nobody believes the Sarries have the slightest, slightest chance but hey they're still there, why not, it's cool but it's not of vital importance.

For Wales even more so as their clubs are almost nothing for an outsider and all their players are scattered around Europe (Fra, Eng) and yet they just won the 6N '12/'13 in a row incl a GS. So Wales first, clubs dead last.
For Ireland, Rabo isn't enough of a prize for them I'm sure, and without the H Cup they practically have no reason to be at club level. The European Cup is basically their goal for a season.

Then comes France: we've seen how French clubs didn't give the slightest, tiniest fuk about Amlin, Stade F. sending a 2nd string side in that elimination game some time ago.
And then what I said in the previous post on this thread: the Top 14 has turned into such a pit of voracious beasts, an absolute platform for carnage that almost no team, as deep as they are btw, can really hope to be competitive on both fronts.
SF Paris is on the brink of elimination after a brilliant season. This is absolutely bunkers to fathom. Clermont are THIRD, and the "shhittier" teams at the bottom can flat-out play rugby: Oyonnax straight out of Pro-D2 this season taught all the big teams a lesson and just achieved a draw against a desperate Toulouse side starving for dear life, let alone points, in this end of this season.

There are simply too many games played in the Top 14 to start with, that teams would need to be just as or even more intense and competitive come H Cup time. The Top 14 has eaten up all the potential space for an athlete's yearly production.

For a guy like Jonny Wilkinson (or anyone younger even) the Top 14 and H Cup seasons are all he could possibly handle although he has no involvement with test Rugby at all anymore.

 

[FrenchFan]

they have to play a higher number of hugely competitive games over a much longer period than in the H Cup

and that's just to be able to stay in the elite

that to me makes it more difficult

 

[FrenchFan]

it's true of course there's also the concept of certain teams giving more importance to the H Cup than others.

For England, the national team still is a priority and well (and I agree with that conception and mindset), and I think there's an emphasis on Prem because it's the local league, it's big, and they know they have basically no chance at the H Cup so I feel English fans and authorities feel like it's just bonus if they make it. This year for e.g. nobody believes the Sarries have the slightest, slightest chance but hey they're still there, why not, it's cool but it's not of vital importance.

For Wales even more so as their clubs are almost nothing for an outsider and all their players are scattered around Europe (Fra, Eng) and yet they just won the 6N '12/'13 in a row incl a GS. So Wales first, clubs dead last.
For Ireland, Rabo isn't enough of a prize for them I'm sure, and without the H Cup they practically have no reason to be at club level. The European Cup is basically their goal for a season.

Then comes France: we've seen how French clubs didn't give the slightest, tiniest fuk about Amlin, Stade F. sending a 2nd string side in that elimination game some time ago.
And then what I said in the previous post on this thread: the Top 14 has turned into such a pit of voracious beasts, an absolute platform for carnage that almost no team, as deep as they are btw, can really hope to be competitive on both fronts.
SF Paris is on the brink of elimination after a brilliant season. This is absolutely bunkers to fathom. Clermont are THIRD, and the "shhittier" teams at the bottom can flat-out play rugby: Oyonnax straight out of Pro-D2 this season taught all the big teams a lesson and just achieved a draw against a desperate Toulouse side starving for dear life, let alone points, in this end of this season.

There are simply too many games played in the Top 14 to start with, that teams would need to be just as or even more intense and competitive come H Cup time. The Top 14 has eaten up all the potential space for an athlete's yearly production.

For a guy like Jonny Wilkinson (or anyone younger even) the Top 14 and H Cup seasons are all he could possibly handle although he has no involvement with test Rugby at all anymore.

yeah its lunacy that Oyonnax now in relegation zone still have the heart & talent to put it up to Toulouse and draw the game (after being denied 1 try and missing 2 sitters!!). And SF having been in the lead is now fighting for the playoffs. Its nuts but thats what makes it great. I don't know where the likes of Oyonnax Grenoble with their budget and virtually no stars can find the motivation. So to state the Top14 is just all about money is just RAVING BS because these teams show that its possible to compete without a big budget.

 

[gaston le gaff]

the fact is that most of the forumers outside of France, either dont understand or dont want too, this money thing just goes on and on and becomes boring, most of the teams are auto financed and as we all know French rugby cannot go into the red or they are punished extremely hard, often with automatic relegation, of course the guys who bankroll the clubs invest at the start but so does anyone starting a business and that is what the TOP 14 is a business of 14 clubs all fighting for a piece of the action,just like all the companies that produce smart phones for example. the H Cup is a bonus, the bread and butter is the TOP 14, no one can afford to go into the Pro D2 as they will lose money and the Presidents may have to reinvest, its all very simple and of course its about money, but that is not all its about. Try talking to the players i do myself every week, in fact twice a week and i can assure you that of course the money is important but the rest is also very important, i also talk to the wives and they do not mention often the money but the lifestyle and the culture the medical for their families the education etc etc. that they all find superb and enjoy living in France. Ask yourselves would you go live in a hostile country for 2/3 years just for the money of couse not. So when the rest of Europe catch up which they will do at some point, i presume we will here comments of "not going to rugby anymore too much money involved" somehow i doubt that very much!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
They will just jump on the bandwagon and enjoy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Tony Manx]

That's just not true - it's always been available at reasonable times. 7-8pm normally.

The volume might be increasing - but TOP14 coverage is not new!

...if you say so, it must be true.....

 

[TRF_Olyy]

...if you say so, it must be true.....

Not sure why you're saying it like that when it is true.
The games are shown live, or at most delayed until after the Aviva Game (so like 5.30).
This weekend they showed Oyonnax vs Toulouse on BT 2 (while Aviva was on 1) and Stade vs Bordeaux on BT 1 before the Aviva game started.

 

[Big Ewis]

Not sure why you're saying it like that when it is true.

...if you say so...

the fact is that most of the forumers outside of France, either dont understand or dont want too, this money thing just goes on and on and becomes boring, most of the teams are auto financed and as we all know French rugby cannot go into the red or they are punished extremely hard, often with automatic relegation, of course the guys who bankroll the clubs invest at the start but so does anyone starting a business and that is what the TOP 14 is a business of 14 clubs all fighting for a piece of the action,just like all the companies that produce smart phones for example. the H Cup is a bonus, the bread and butter is the TOP 14, no one can afford to go into the Pro D2 as they will lose money and the Presidents may have to reinvest, its all very simple and of course its about money, but that is not all its about. Try talking to the players i do myself every week, in fact twice a week and i can assure you that of course the money is important but the rest is also very important, i also talk to the wives and they do not mention often the money but the lifestyle and the culture the medical for their families the education etc etc. that they all find superb and enjoy living in France. Ask yourselves would you go live in a hostile country for 2/3 years just for the money of couse not. So when the rest of Europe catch up which they will do at some point, i presume we will here comments of "not going to rugby anymore too much money involved" somehow i doubt that very much!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
They will just jump on the bandwagon and enjoy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

interesting to read. I like the enthusiasm though, always gaston !
This reminds me of the old philosophical adages...better to be a "satisfied pork" or an "unsatisfied Socrates", or more to the point at hand here: "better to be in Heaven with enemies or in Hell with friends" is one I thought of myself, see the genius, wow...
anyways: the answer is option 2. For me at least.

And back to the point in question: France does offer a certain sweetness of life, especially for pro athletes with money and privileges, and especially that area of the South in general...I mean not to brag or sound hostile at all, but Brits and people from all over the world but from the UK specifically just CROWD the Côte d'Azur area like crazy. I'm there every summer for months, and goddamn they're just everywhere. They even were mostly responsible for the iconic "Promenade des Anglais" corniche in Nice.

So I'm saying if ppl who have nothing to do with Rugby would go out of their way and sacrifice lots to manage a property and the good life as retirement in Nice/Cannes/St Trop and company - these pro Rugby guys are BROUGHT, wanted and brought there and paid the highest salaries in the world atm - enjoy top competition - and get to discover the good life with panache, finesse and all that...

They get to live in France and not have to put up with the daily life bullsht and the fkn annoying people all around the damn nation with their complicated personalities and their constant complaining, or immigration BS and subways etc...