Exeter chiefs 2017/18 season thread. Chance to top the premiership.

[RedruthRFC]

I chuckled when I read about this signing having read the South African suggestion yesterday.

He's also only 103kg.

By the looks of it, he makes Mouritz Botha in his Bedford days look like Goliath! Saying that, I suspect that this may be lazy journalism - he's listed as 103kg everywhere I've found, so either he has remained the same weight or an out of date weight has been recycled time and time again. Mind you, I wouldn't think that it's far off, he doesn't look a big unit in the photo on Chiefs' Facebook page and appears to be barely taller than Rob Baxter, who I think of as been a decent height but not exactly tall in rugby circles. I logged in to ask if I'm being old fashioned in my confusion at someone this size hoping to play second row in the AP.

Add my name to the list of people to whom this seems like a very strange signing!

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

I chuckled when I read about this signing having read the South African suggestion yesterday.



By the looks of it, he makes Mouritz Botha in his Bedford days look like Goliath! Saying that, I suspect that this may be lazy journalism - he's listed as 103kg everywhere I've found, so either he has remained the same weight or an out of date weight has been recycled time and time again. Mind you, I wouldn't think that it's far off, he doesn't look a big unit in the photo on Chiefs' Facebook page and appears to be barely taller than Rob Baxter, who I think of as been a decent height but not exactly tall in rugby circles. I logged in to ask if I'm being old fashioned in my confusion at someone this size hoping to play second row in the AP.

Add my name to the list of people to whom this seems like a very strange signing!

If he really is 103kg then I really can't see how he'll survive in the prem. He's smaller than most opensides yet at 6'6 a good 4-5 inches taller. He'll be a weapon in the lineout but at scrum time and in open play he'll simply be bullied.

 

[BPM]

Does that really make a difference?
Upon looking further he's also been loaned to London Scottish and Rotherham ***ans. He's also only 103kg. I get that the Chiefs ethos is to not go around making huge signings but really what was the point in this? We have lock stocks, it's just that we lack any top quality ones. I'm really not sure how VDS is going to in any way solve that problem. Just seems like a very poor signing from Baxter, really not what you'd expect from a team that's apparently aiming to win the Champions Cup this season. There comes a point where you've got to somewhat abandon you ethos to an extent if you want to stay competitive. Buying in a quality second row should've been where we began showing that we're serious competitors, not just the hard-punching under dogs.[/QUOTE]


Yes - that's exactly what I was getting at before.

Chiefs culture and ethos is something to be admired, but to get to the next level and become a major club on the European stage, they really need to find a way of making more ambitious signings whilst retaining their identity.

As a Quins fan, I know exactly how you feel about this kind of signing ... sometimes it is about having depth, but in our case, we need more quality (ironically lock is one of the most pressing needs) and it's so frustrating when nobodies/has beens are signed on some strange hope that they're a rough diamond.

Not sure what's going on with my reply/the quote?! Sorry ...

 

[RedruthRFC]

If he really is 103kg then I really can't see how he'll survive in the prem. He's smaller than most opensides yet at 6'6 a good 4-5 inches taller. He'll be a weapon in the lineout but at scrum time and in open play he'll simply be bullied.

Someone has shared a video of him playing University rugby on the Chiefs Sportsnetwork page. He seems to fancy himself as a ball carrier (the video focuses on this), but doesn't look an impressively strong carrier even at University level. As I said, I'd be very surprised if he's 6'6" based on a photo of him standing next to Rob Baxter, although if he's just overstating his height by the same amount as everyone else, he'll be more slightly built than players he should be out muscling.

 

[Scotty]

James short
Olly wooddburn
Olly devoto

All were second team players or under used players but baxter had seen something in them and ratjer than paying out for superstars he developed them into good players, they all played a good part in last season

I hope he has done the same with the SA lock and kvesic. But if he is only 103kg as someone saod then him amd kvesic cant play yogether as neither will be ball carriers.

In baxter we trust haha. He knows what hes doing and hasnt steered us wrong yet, i hope we eat our words and this lock is good and kvesic ups his game im every area except jackeling as he smashes that already

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

James short
Olly wooddburn
Olly devoto

All were second team players or under used players but baxter had seen something in them and ratjer than paying out for superstars he developed them into good players, they all played a good part in last season

I hope he has done the same with the SA lock and kvesic. But if he is only 103kg as someone saod then him amd kvesic cant play yogether as neither will be ball carriers.

In baxter we trust haha. He knows what hes doing and hasnt steered us wrong yet, i hope we eat our words and this lock is good and kvesic ups his game im every area except jackeling as he smashes that already

I know what Baxter's done with players in the past and have faith in him but there's a pretty huge difference between turning Bath bench warmers into quality players than Worcester rejects. Devoto had already earned his first England cap before coming to Chiefs, I don't think Baxter turned him around as much as people like to make out.

 

[Scotty]

I know what Baxter's done with players in the past and have faith in him but there's a pretty huge difference between turning Bath bench warmers into quality players than Worcester rejects. Devoto had already earned his first England cap before coming to Chiefs, I don't think Baxter turned him around as much as people like to make out.

Yeh you are right tbh but i just hope he can get the best out of him and least make him a decent bench warmer amd if he's terrible then we have some young lads coming through.

 

[brokenoses]

The Henry Slade discussion has been going on for a long time in the Chiefs forums. For what it's worth, this is my view on the matter (posted by me on another forum).

"My opinion is that Slade is and always has been a fly half. Because of Steensons' form and Slades' obvious abilities, Slade has been playing in a 2nd playmaker role alongside him (rather than as a later game 10 replacement). Steensons' form will drop at some point soon and when that happens we will suffer as we will have no replacement of a similar/better ability. Simmons looks to have a very bright future but the gap in age and ability between Steenson and himself is too great to be a smooth transition. Slade is perfectly placed to ensure the transition away from Steenson at 10 is smooth. He has the potential to reach a very high level at 10 but he will not reach it unless he gets experience now playing 10 regularly at a high level.

Essentially my point is that Slade playing at 10 now could affect our results in the short term but the balance will return and we will have an incredibly talented fly half, and Simmons as a high class back-up, for the years moving forward. Steenson will continue his fine form and mentor both Slade and Simmons and help them reach their potential. The alternative is buying an expensive fly half to bridge the gap between Steeno and Simmons which I feel is a waste of time and money that we could use in other positions."

Slade started the season at 10 against Sarries and Wasps, and Chiefs got hammered. The next week he was moved back to centre. As a confidence player, I don't think this did him any favours. Later on in the season he played at 10 for a fair chunk and I think Chiefs played some of their best rugby with him pulling the strings. Chiefs need a top quality 10 to take over after Steenson and Slade is in the perfect position to fill this role. It would be a huge waste, and dead against the Chiefs ethos, if this homegrown talent moved away and Chiefs bought in a ready made fly half. I think they need to look at the bigger picture and continue putting the time in developing Slade as a 10.

Rest of the squad -

Front row - Hepburn, LCD and Williams brings real power and dynamism with bulk and stability coming from Williams. If LCD brings back his mullet they also have triple hair power. Moon very underrated and Malton played very well last season. Any of the remaining 3 of our 4 international TH's we have (mental) should do a job at 18.

Second row - Parling leaves a big pair of boots to fill. Exeter tend to play an enforcer at 4 and lineout general at 5. Lees and Hill tick those boxes. Dennis had a brilliant later season and we may see Armand at lock this year (originally signed as a lock). A few new faces to look at.

Back row - Lots of good options. I expect the balance will have a blend of carrier (Ewers, Waldrom), fetcher (Salvi, Simmons, Kvesic) and jumper (Armand, Dennis, Skinner). Gross over simplification I know. Selection depends on fitness (Ewers) and other positions.

Scrum half - I expect White, Townsend and Chudley to battle it out with Maunder benefiting from another season in the Championship. By mid season I think White will mostly be 9 with Townsend 21.

Fly half - Slade/Steeno 10/22. Whoever starts, have the other on the bench and not in centres. Slade needs to settle here.

Centres - Devoto seems the perfect 12, Hill and Campagnaro have pace and power outside him. Expect more from Max Bodily at 13.

Back 3 - It wouldn't surprise me to see more of Nowell at 15 leaving wings to Woodburn and Short. I thought Turner was unlucky last season not to keep the 15 shirt.

My 23 v Gloucester -

1. Hepburn
2. Cowan-Dickie
3. Williams
4. Lees
5. Hill
6. Ewers
7. Kvesic
8. Armand
9. Townsend
10. Steenson
11. Woodburn
12. Devoto
13. Hill
14. Nowell
15. Turner

16. Malton
17. Moon
18. Francis
19. Dennis
20. Simmons
21. White
22. Slade
23. Campagnaro

 

[curtbob7]

The Henry Slade discussion has been going on for a long time in the Chiefs forums. For what it's worth, this is my view on the matter (posted by me on another forum).

"My opinion is that Slade is and always has been a fly half. Because of Steensons' form and Slades' obvious abilities, Slade has been playing in a 2nd playmaker role alongside him (rather than as a later game 10 replacement). Steensons' form will drop at some point soon and when that happens we will suffer as we will have no replacement of a similar/better ability. Simmons looks to have a very bright future but the gap in age and ability between Steenson and himself is too great to be a smooth transition. Slade is perfectly placed to ensure the transition away from Steenson at 10 is smooth. He has the potential to reach a very high level at 10 but he will not reach it unless he gets experience now playing 10 regularly at a high level.

Essentially my point is that Slade playing at 10 now could affect our results in the short term but the balance will return and we will have an incredibly talented fly half, and Simmons as a high class back-up, for the years moving forward. Steenson will continue his fine form and mentor both Slade and Simmons and help them reach their potential. The alternative is buying an expensive fly half to bridge the gap between Steeno and Simmons which I feel is a waste of time and money that we could use in other positions."

Slade started the season at 10 against Sarries and Wasps, and Chiefs got hammered. The next week he was moved back to centre. As a confidence player, I don't think this did him any favours. Later on in the season he played at 10 for a fair chunk and I think Chiefs played some of their best rugby with him pulling the strings. Chiefs need a top quality 10 to take over after Steenson and Slade is in the perfect position to fill this role. It would be a huge waste, and dead against the Chiefs ethos, if this homegrown talent moved away and Chiefs bought in a ready made fly half. I think they need to look at the bigger picture and continue putting the time in developing Slade as a 10.

Rest of the squad -

Front row - Hepburn, LCD and Williams brings real power and dynamism with bulk and stability coming from Williams. If LCD brings back his mullet they also have triple hair power. Moon very underrated and Malton played very well last season. Any of the remaining 3 of our 4 international TH's we have (mental) should do a job at 18.

Second row - Parling leaves a big pair of boots to fill. Exeter tend to play an enforcer at 4 and lineout general at 5. Lees and Hill tick those boxes. Dennis had a brilliant later season and we may see Armand at lock this year (originally signed as a lock). A few new faces to look at.

Back row - Lots of good options. I expect the balance will have a blend of carrier (Ewers, Waldrom), fetcher (Salvi, Simmons, Kvesic) and jumper (Armand, Dennis, Skinner). Gross over simplification I know. Selection depends on fitness (Ewers) and other positions.

Scrum half - I expect White, Townsend and Chudley to battle it out with Maunder benefiting from another season in the Championship. By mid season I think White will mostly be 9 with Townsend 21.

Fly half - Slade/Steeno 10/22. Whoever starts, have the other on the bench and not in centres. Slade needs to settle here.

Centres - Devoto seems the perfect 12, Hill and Campagnaro have pace and power outside him. Expect more from Max Bodily at 13.

Back 3 - It wouldn't surprise me to see more of Nowell at 15 leaving wings to Woodburn and Short. I thought Turner was unlucky last season not to keep the 15 shirt.

My 23 v Gloucester -

1. Hepburn
2. Cowan-Dickie
3. Williams
4. Lees
5. Hill
6. Ewers
7. Kvesic
8. Armand
9. Townsend
10. Steenson
11. Woodburn
12. Devoto
13. Hill
14. Nowell
15. Turner

16. Malton
17. Moon
18. Francis
19. Dennis
20. Simmons
21. White
22. Slade
23. Campagnaro

Surely you'd have Ewers at 8 and Armand at 6?

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Surely you'd have Ewers at 8 and Armand at 6?

Last time the two of them were filling 6 and 8 Armand was at 8 with Ewers at 6. IIRC it was last years Premiership final. Although I, like you, would prefer 6. Armand 8. Ewers, Baxter prefers it the other way. He's stated in the past that in his back rows he likes the 6 to be the monster with the 8 having more pace and skill.

 

[curtbob7]

Last time the two of them were filling 6 and 8 Armand was at 8 with Ewers at 6. IIRC it was last years Premiership final. Although I, like you, would prefer 6. Armand 8. Ewers, Baxter prefers it the other way. He's stated in the past that in his back rows he likes the 6 to be the monster with the 8 having more pace and skill.

Fair enough. Ewers is a complete monster so he fits the Baxter 6 bill!

 

[BPM]

Last time the two of them were filling 6 and 8 Armand was at 8 with Ewers at 6. IIRC it was last years Premiership final. Although I, like you, would prefer 6. Armand 8. Ewers, Baxter prefers it the other way. He's stated in the past that in his back rows he likes the 6 to be the monster with the 8 having more pace and skill.

Really? Given that Waldrom's been your main man at 8 for a good while, I wouldn't have said pace and skill were his main attributes? Bodes well for Simmonds, although I still don't think he's an 8. Interestingly, his Twitter handle is something like samsimmonds7 (or something like that?). I'm not sure if it's a coincidence or a nod to his preference for the 7 shirt?

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Really? Given that Waldrom's been your main man at 8 for a good while, I wouldn't have said pace and skill were his main attributes? Bodes well for Simmonds, although I still don't think he's an 8. Interestingly, his Twitter handle is something like samsimmonds7 (or something like that?). I'm not sure if it's a coincidence or a nod to his preference for the 7 shirt?

Growing up he always played 7 so I assume so. TBH I really like him as an 8, he's not a huge ball carrier but his pace and his footwork is phenomenal. Not a traditional 8 but he's a real weapon there and with flankers like Ewers and Armand strength isn't necessarily needed at 8.

On Waldrom, no he's not a hugely pacey or skillful 8 but he's not the kind of brute that Ewers is. Waldrom on a few occasions has put in some effective chips and I think is more skilful than he's given credit for.

 

[RedruthRFC]

Scrum half - I expect White, Townsend and Chudley to battle it out with Maunder benefiting from another season in the Championship. By mid season I think White will mostly be 9 with Townsend 21.

Has Maunder ever played in the Championship? AFAIK he's only ever been DRd with Redruth and Plymouth Albion.

 

[brokenoses]

Last time the two of them were filling 6 and 8 Armand was at 8 with Ewers at 6. IIRC it was last years Premiership final. Although I, like you, would prefer 6. Armand 8. Ewers, Baxter prefers it the other way. He's stated in the past that in his back rows he likes the 6 to be the monster with the 8 having more pace and skill.

It's interesting, I'm not sure if NZ domestic teams go for this option but it seems the AB's do with a monster 6 (Kaino) and tall, skillful pacy 8 (Read). Over here, and in most other places thinking about it, it seems we mostly do the opposite.

Has Maunder ever played in the Championship? AFAIK he's only ever been DRd with Redruth and Plymouth Albion.

It was an ill informed, and largely irrelevant, assumption. My point was that he could do with another season on loan, Championship or otherwise, to develop a bit more. I'm sure he would continue to do well with Chiefs but there is no need to rush and with the other SH's available he may benefit more from being away and getting regular game time.

 

[BPM]

Is Yeandle still club captain? From what I've seen Malton probably has a bigger impact but to bump the club captain from the 23 seems unlikely.

Then again Guy Mercer was captain at Bath last season and I'm not even sure how many games he played?

 

[brokenoses]

Is Yeandle still club captain? From what I've seen Malton probably has a bigger impact but to bump the club captain from the 23 seems unlikely.

Then again Guy Mercer was captain at Bath last season and I'm not even sure how many games he played?

He's still club captain as far as I know. Yeandle's real strength was his consistency and ability to do everything at a decent level. Recently his throwing has been abysmal and given how crucial lineouts are to Exeter's game plan (and the departure of Parling), I think this needs to improve before he returns to the 23. Both Malton and Taione offer real impact but lack the all round ability of Yeandle. With LCD a nailed on starter, the 16 shirt is pretty much up for grabs with not much separating the 3 of them.

 

[RedruthRFC]

It was an ill informed, and largely irrelevant, assumption. My point was that he could do with another season on loan, Championship or otherwise, to develop a bit more. I'm sure he would continue to do well with Chiefs but there is no need to rush and with the other SH's available he may benefit more from being away and getting regular game time.

I don't follow the "or otherwise" bit. It would be a heck of a jump from getting frequent level one game time and England tourist to the community game. The Championship would be a bare minimum for me. Time at Pirates did Townsend no harm at all, maybe we'll see the same for Maunder. Chiefs might see Gavin Cattle's influence as a positive

 

[brokenoses]

I don't follow the "or otherwise" bit. It would be a heck of a jump from getting frequent level one game time and England tourist to the community game. The Championship would be a bare minimum for me. Time at Pirates did Townsend no harm at all, maybe we'll see the same for Maunder. Chiefs might see Gavin Cattle's influence as a positive

The "or otherwise" bit demonstrates that the competition he plays in was not the main thrust of what I was saying. Whether he plays in the Championship for a season like Townsend or even the Mitre 10 like Nathan Earle makes little difference as long as he is getting the gametime and experience he needs to keep him improving. I'm obviously not suggesting that he spends a year having a run around with Withycombe 3rd's.

 

[BPM]

Well Maunder made the England training squad, so I doubt he'll be heading of to Withycombe any time soon.