[EOYT] Wales v Tonga 22/11/2013

[ruggabee]

that's because you're a total peasant with no manners or sensitivity. You go to your angry, brutal, "manly" Rugby thingy, and I'll go watch this experience in timelessness, the blending of two fabulous, complementary voices from the stars...

Stop talking to me. I'm trying to drink my beer. Cos I'm a man.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Was territory like 100% in Tonga's 22 in the 2nd half?
Every time I looked at the screen Wales seemed to be camped in the "red zone".

 

[Big Ewis]

Stop talking to me. I'm trying to drink my beer. Cos I'm a man.

Nonsense. In every man is a beautiful, slender young blonde lady with tenderness for all and a caring heart.

Was territory like 100% in Tonga's 22 in the 2nd half?
Every time I looked at the screen Wales seemed to be camped in the "red zone".

yessss I know. I was going to make that comment earlier. I think they just really, really liked the temperature in that area of the field. They totally should have brought some tents, like, a shisha, and..some handy plastic wrapped sandwhiches...mustard...

 

[psychic duck]

Yet another scrappy shoddy Friday night Wales performance. Forgettable game. If Wales played like that against a side that actually had a set piece then they would have been in trouble.

 

[j'nuh]

Yet another scrappy shoddy Friday night Wales performance. Forgettable game. If Wales played like that against a side that actually had a set piece then they would have been in trouble.

You're too hard on Wales. Wales might not have been scoring left, right and centre, but the possession and territory stats speak for themselves in terms of how little the Welsh had to struggle in this game. Other than the actual Tongan try, a one-off piece of skill, Wales barely looked like conceding points elsewhere...

 

[Thingimubob]

You're too hard on Wales. Wales might not have been scoring left, right and centre, but the possession and territory stats speak for themselves in terms of how little the Welsh had to struggle in this game. Other than the actual Tongan try, a one-off piece of skill, Wales barely looked like conceding points elsewhere...

Definitely a big positive to take out of this game. Plenty of kickable penalties we decided not to take too.

Either way, hopefully we'll have a lot more control with Phillips and Biggar at the helm, plus positive signs from the youngsters who may have to start next week (Owen Williams in particular)

 

[dullonien]

Such a stop-start game killed it as a spectacle. This was partly down to mistakes and partly down to defence. Neither side could get going in the second half, and the players grew visibly frustrated and started forcing things.

I think Jiffy summed up what Wales needed to do perfectly, they needed to clear out the ruck area past the ball so that Lloyd Williams/Rhodri Williams could get clean ball, and they needed to go through some phases with the forwards before throwing it wide. They did neither with any accuracy, and as such Tonga disrupted our ball at the breakdown and forced errors out wide when we tried to play off slow ball.

The big positive to come from the game was that there were no injuries. Two well taken try's showed that both centres have a touch of class about them too.

 

[ruggabee]

You're too hard on Wales. Wales might not have been scoring left, right and centre, but the possession and territory stats speak for themselves in terms of how little the Welsh had to struggle in this game. Other than the actual Tongan try, a one-off piece of skill, Wales barely looked like conceding points elsewhere...

Actually it is a problem. The aim of the game is to score so you can win. There's no use having territory or possession if you're not going to come away with points. It might be ok against lower tier sides but it is an area that the NH sides have struggled with when playing against NZ/AUS/SA. With that kind of territory and possession stats you should expect to hammer a team that's a tier below.

 

[psychic duck]

You're too hard on Wales. Wales might not have been scoring left, right and centre, but the possession and territory stats speak for themselves in terms of how little the Welsh had to struggle in this game. Other than the actual Tongan try, a one-off piece of skill, Wales barely looked like conceding points elsewhere...

Having 90% possession and scoring 0 points in the second half just makes the attacking performance look all the more awful. If the opposition were one that was able to keep hold of the ball instead of fumbling it, and didn't overthrow nearly every lineout then the match would have been very different. Wales were lucky Tonga weren't at their best themselves, as they were dire and uninspiring as they always are on a Friday night with too many changes. The only real positive for Wales out of this game is that there were no injuries.

 

[j'nuh]

Actually it is a problem. The aim of the game is to score so you can win. There's no use having territory or possession if you're not going to come away with points. It might be ok against lower tier sides but it is an area that the NH sides have struggled with when playing against NZ/AUS/SA. With that kind of territory and possession stats you should expect to hammer a team that's a tier below.

Absolutely - I agree 100%. But I was more responding to the Wales may have been in trouble bit. I don't think Wales ever looked to be in trouble. Wales coasted it in second-gear with a second-string team.

Also, I think Wales would have hammered Tonga with their first team. But this was okay as far as a second team goes.

Having 90% possession and scoring 0 points in the second half just makes the attacking performance look all the more awful. If the opposition were one that was able to keep hold of the ball instead of fumbling it, and didn't overthrow nearly every lineout then the match would have been very different. Wales were lucky Tonga weren't at their best themselves, as they were dire and uninspiring as they always are on a Friday night with too many changes. The only real positive for Wales out of this game is that there were no injuries.

As I say above, I don't disagree that Wales could have done better in scoring given all the possession. But I still don't think Wales was ever in any danger of losing that match. There was a 10-point gap in the second half, and Tonga could barely get out of their half, never mind threaten Wales' try line or score penalties.

 

[ruggabee]

Absolutely - I agree 100%. But I was more responding to the Wales may have been in trouble bit. I don't think Wales ever looked to be in trouble. Wales coasted it in second-gear with a second-string team.

Also, I think Wales would have hammered Tonga with their first team. But this was okay as far as a second team goes.

I agree too that the first team would have hammered them. However, considering rugby is a competitive professional sport, I'd be disappointed if my national side weren't ruthless with every chance they got.

 

[psychic duck]

Absolutely - I agree 100%. But I was more responding to the Wales may have been in trouble bit. I don't think Wales ever looked to be in trouble. Wales coasted it in second-gear with a second-string team.

Also, I think Wales would have hammered Tonga with their first team. But this was okay as far as a second team goes.

Which nobody ever said. Read the post again, I actually wrote if they played like that against a side that wasn't a car crash at the set piece then the game would have been different. Tonga had no platform to build any possession. Wales were lucky that Tonga aren't on good form themselves.

Also several were saying how good this selection was and would deliver better than the direness we've seen on Fridays past. They can't now justify that uninspiring performance on the basis it was a weak second team.

 

[j'nuh]

Tonga weren't so bad at the set piece that it would have made a particularly big difference to territory and possession. It simply doesn't account for the major disparity. Perhaps with a better set piece, Tonga would have spent more time in the Wales half. But they only lost 6 possessions (compared to Wales' 4) through the set piece, compared to 17 overall (20 for Wales), so I cannot think that it made the significant difference. Perhaps they would have started getting within penalty range, but challenging the try line? I doubt it. Wales were comfortable, and they would have been even if Tonga had held their set piece imo.

Tonga's major problem for me was that they struggled to put together even a small number of phases. Each team may have made a similar number of handling errors, but Tonga would make them a lot sooner than Wales.

 

[Rich Taff]

Tonga were excellent at the break down, and Wales were not so good. It was slow ball every time, and the lack of playtime together of the 9 10 12 13 showed up in a lot of the play.

On a side note, Hook wasn't awful. (that's the most complimentary I can be about the guy)

 

[SelimNiai]

Tonga were excellent at the break down, and Wales were not so good. It was slow ball every time, and the lack of playtime together of the 9 10 12 13 showed up in a lot of the play.

On a side note, Hook wasn't awful. (that's the most complimentary I can be about the guy)

Hook had a good 1st half, made the passes that allowed Beck, Amos, North etc to run on to it. He suffered in the second through slow/scrappy ball in the second as we all did.

 

[Rich Taff]

Hook had a good 1st half, made the passes that allowed Beck, Amos, North etc to run on to it. He suffered in the second through slow/scrappy ball in the second as we all did.

Yeah, he finally drew contact after passing to set up the one try (I'm sure he was given a complete bollocking for screwing up a break v SA by passing too early).

Still think he's a total shadow of the guy who first came onto the scene. He's turned into an all rounder (cant/wont pass, cant kick, cant/wont tackle), but would be great if he showed the form his early potential alluded to.

 

[psychic duck]

Tonga weren't so bad at the set piece that it would have made a particularly big difference to territory and possession. It simply doesn't account for the major disparity. Perhaps with a better set piece, Tonga would have spent more time in the Wales half. But they only lost 6 possessions (compared to Wales' 4) through the set piece, compared to 17 overall (20 for Wales), so I cannot think that it made the significant difference. Perhaps they would have started getting within penalty range, but challenging the try line? I doubt it. Wales were comfortable, and they would have been even if Tonga had held their set piece imo.

Tonga's major problem for me was that they struggled to put together even a small number of phases. Each team may have made a similar number of handling errors, but Tonga would make them a lot sooner than Wales.

It did make a significant difference. Firstly one of the Wales tries stemmed from a scrum on their own put in that they conceded a penalty. Secondly, they had no base to relieve pressure. Their set piece was malfunctioning particularly at lineouts, not helped by their kicker having poor range on his punts. The alternative of running out was also not working as they couldn't go many phases without dropping the ball. So they had no way to work their way up the field.

If they had a set piece then the match would have been different as Tonga would have got the better territory and with that always comes the possibility of penalties being in range, and the score being in range of a try against the run of play. Tonga were not at their best, and if they had been there is a risk where it could have been like the Scotland game last year where they defended for large periods and managed a breakout try against the run of play. Unclinical sides (such as this performance) leave themselves open to upsets such as some of the Scotland big wins of recent times.

 

[SelimNiai]

Yeah, he finally drew contact after passing to set up the one try (I'm sure he was given a complete bollocking for screwing up a break v SA by passing too early).

Still think he's a total shadow of the guy who first came onto the scene. He's turned into an all rounder (cant/wont pass, cant kick, cant/wont tackle), but would be great if he showed the form his early potential alluded to.

Thing is, nobody is sure where he is best utilized. I personally think he played his best for Wales at 13 but some say 10 and others 15 so he's been left in a "jack of all trades" role.

 

[Rich Taff]

Thing is, nobody is sure where he is best utilized. I personally think he played his best for Wales at 13 but some say 10 and others 15 so he's been left in a "jack of all trades" role.

Also known as 'The Tony Clement curse'.

 

[psychic duck]

Thing is, nobody is sure where he is best utilized. I personally think he played his best for Wales at 13 but some say 10 and others 15 so he's been left in a "jack of all trades" role.

It's obviously centre in my opinion. The only people who think he is a great 10 are people who select on highlight reels, and who thinks he played his best for Wales at 15?