[EOYT] France vs South Africa 23/11/13

[iINDOMINUSxx]

Probably the right score but for France!

maybe but it will be close

 

[Big Ewis]

Probably the right score but for France!

nice to see support

But I quite like ImScotty's prediction. I'm not sure in what order, i.e. who wins, but it's interesting to see someone believes it'll be such a low score. In deed, both teams are capable of great defense...

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

8 changes in the lineup !! No Picamoles after all...yikes ! stormer, I'm sorry to say man, but if S.A. win it's solely because of that...even if we lose 50-10, it'll surely be because of Picamoles' absence, oh, what a tragedy he isn't here !...

I can accept that. I feel the same about Fourie du Preez for us. He makes such an immense impact (in an altogether different way than Picolo of course).

this match will be close but i say south africa 15 - 13

Good prediction, I also have SA winning by around 14.


EDIT; a bit off topic (okay, altogether off topic) but Bafana Bafana beat Spain! The stars are aligning. I don't know for what effect but be on guard for something.. unexpected. A blow-out scoer in this match maybe?

 

[racer0bv]

So how long is the suspension for Maestri? I did not find any news about him, only about Taumalolo, who got 4 weeks off.

 

[Gena_ZA]

His red card was deemed sufficient and I am glad, he looked really sad when he was send off
The other dude should have gotten six months

 

[Big Ewis]

His red card was deemed sufficient and I am glad, he looked really sad when he was send off
The other dude should have gotten six months

I like your thinking. I think his tears convinced the IRB of his "pure" intentions. And after all, again, the guy just throws a punch out of the blue. It takes an amazing kind of maturity and self-control to go against the natural rise of adrenaline in the body - how are common athletes supposed to carry that ability with them at all times, those are Rugby players not fkn Jedi masters.

 

[racer0bv]

yeah, i think it is fair enough. anyway, 9 players from 10 would have responded like him. Good to see that the IRB has a judged in the spirit of the law, not only to the letter of it.

 

[Big Ewis]

yeah, i think it is fair enough. anyway, 9 players from 10 would have responded like him. Good to see that the IRB has a judged in the spirit of the law, not only to the letter of it.

well put. We're human beings, not machines. We should be able to make the difference between a host of given situations and consider all aspects, psychological/biological...etc.; all in common sense, not like a fkn device.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

South Africa:

15 Willie le Roux: 14 JP Pietersen, 13 Jaque Fourie, 12 Jean de Villiers (captain) 11 Bryan Habana, 10 Morné Steyn, 9 Ruan Pienaar, 8 Duane Vermeulen, 7 Willem Alberts, 6 Francois Louw, 5 Flip van der Merwe, 4 Eben Etzebeth, 3 Coenie Oosthuizen, 2 Bismarck du Plessis, 1Tendai Mtawarira

Substitutes: 16 Adriaan Strauss, 17 Gurthrö Steenkamp, 18 Lourens Adriaanse, 19 Bakkies Botha, 20 Pieter-Steph du Toit, 21 Siya Kolisi 22 Jano Vermaak, 23 Patrick Lambie

http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/SpringboksintheUK/Bok-stalwarts-back-for-France-20131120

Damnit I am so happy about Le Roux starting that I can almost look past Pienaar at 9! Interesting that we went with a 6-2 split on the bench. I suppose PSdT was a blindside before he was a lock. We have some players who can play multiple positions in the backs there so I am not too concerned. I find it very amusing that I am glad to see Morne Steyn's name at 10.

I concerns here are limited to
- Coenie at tight head with Adriaanse on the bench purely at the scrum; a guy who only recently converted to TH and a test rookie
- Pienaar at 9; I am just praying for one of those good games he supposedly has had in Europe
- Jaque Fourie needs to step it up a notch IMO (while JdV has also dropped a gear since TRC and JPP can also get involved a bit more)

 

[Big Ewis]

a formidable side in deed...not familiar with that no. 3 though. I understand you guys have an injury in the tight 3.
I'm sure the Steyn+Pienaar combination will work alright.

Boy, is this going to be SUPER exciting or what ?! Haven't faced off in forever, two teams who don't know each other at all - well besides Botha, Steenkamp, and now Steyn and Habana who have an idea...
Big qualities on both sides, and big question marks on specific aspects, esp. for France.

 

[Bradsa]

Would have liked for Kolisi or PSdT to get a start but I can live with this lineup. A bit worried that Pienaar seems to be our second choice SH, think we struggle for depth there, and possibly at fullback.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

a formidable side in deed...not familiar with that no. 3 though. I understand you guys have an injury in the tight 3.
I'm sure the Steyn+Pienaar combination will work alright.

Jannie du Plessis and Frans Malherbe injured tightheads and it's something of a problem area in SA at the moment, particularly seeing as Brian Mujati seems uninterested in returning for the Bokke and every guy coming through showing remote talent being scooped up by a European club team before his 2nd year.

Morne Steyn has gone alright this year behind a dominant pack and FdP, this time he has at least one of those missing and Pienaar gives the guys outside no time at all.

Boy, is this going to be SUPER exciting or what ?! Haven't faced off in forever, two teams who don't know each other at all - well besides Botha, Steenkamp, and now Steyn and Habana who have an idea...
Big qualities on both sides, and big question marks on specific aspects, esp. for France.

It is rather strange that this fixture isn't a more frequent one but, yes, the rarity adds value certainly.

Would have liked for Kolisi or PSdT to get a start but I can live with this lineup. A bit worried that Pienaar seems to be our second choice SH, think we struggle for depth there, and possibly at fullback.

I think this is the game for the big boys to start but, yeah, I'd be gutted if both those young forwards don't get 20 minutes.

9 is a worry, yes, at least beyond FdP who we can't bank on half the time with his availability issues.
At 15 though, I am just glad we have a potential world class 15 for once and will take that any day. I think the fact that we can't think of guys able to stand in for these two is just as much a reflection on their worth/ability as on the lack of depth in those positions in SA currently.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Man that is a bloody good side, as above, it's great to see Le Roux get another start.
Pienaar has been poor for the Boks all year, so him starting isn't ideal. Has FdP had to go back to Japan or is he just not selected (or injured)?

 

[Gena_ZA]

FdP under contract is not allowed for this game - he would have logically been selected if available.

Good side, glad some youngsters there to get experience.
Looking much forward to this and praying for a good honest, well officiated game with no serious injuries
May rugby win on all levels

and I think we will klap em good

 

[Jaguares]

JJ Engelbrecht > Jan Serfontein > Jaque Fourie

 

[Big Ewis]

My starting XV:

1 - Thomas Domingo
2 - Benjamin Kayser
3 - Nicolas Mas
4 - Yoann Maestri Sébastien Vahaamahina
5 - Pascal Papé
6 - Wenceslas Lauret
7 - Thierry Dusautoir
8 - Damien Chouly Louis Picamoles
9 - Morgan Parra
10 - Rémi Talès
11 - Sofiane Guitoune Maxime Médard
12 - Wesley Fofana
13 - Florian Fritz
14 - Yoann Huget
15 - Brice Dulin

Updated my starting XV taking the eight changes in consideration. Players in red removed.

(not a double post):
Scrum, scrum, scrum:
http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,3551_9032978,00.html

De Villiers about French scrum:
"Around the globe in the last year their scrum earned the most penalties and conceded the fewest. It will be a scrumming test for us."

I'd have guessed so, but didn't know that was an actual fact.

 

[GeneralduPreez]

So glad for Willie making the starting team. He really deserves it.

Hope Pienaar performs. I think he is one of those "thinking" players like de Villiers and du Preez who will always have a lot of potential, but it is really time for him to perform. He has had more chances than most and haven't produced. I personally think Vermaak deserves a start ahead of Pienaar. Vermaak distributes the ball a lot quicker than Pienaar (oh wait, every other scrum half in the world does). Joking aside, Vermaak is a great distributor of the ball.

Am I the only one that think that we are a little thin at 8th man, never mind lock and tight head? What happens if Dwayne gets injured, which can happen easily as he has played a lot of rugby this year. Spies?? haha. when the going gets tough, the tough gets....where the hell is Spies? haha. No disrespect, he has served us well before. He just needs to work at that aspect of his game. It is not like he isn't big enough.

@Stormer: Forgot about Mujati. Why the hell is he not interested in playing for the Boks?

 

[GeneralduPreez]

We haven't played France in a while now, have we? I am pretty sure the Boks will win, but there is a lot of uncertainty. We just don't know them (French) well enough. Hard to predict how we will fare, as a team's performance against other teams is not always an accurate gauge. For example, Scotland always seem to lift their game against us. The uncertainty is good for a change. Why don't we play the French more? Have we even played against them in a World Cup since 1995? Bet the Nieu Zeelanders are shouting, "Give them to the Boks, for **** sakes!" On that same note, why do we always play against Samoa?

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

So glad for Willie making the starting team. He really deserves it.

Hope Pienaar performs. I think he is one of those "thinking" players like de Villiers and du Preez who will always have a lot of potential, but it is really time for him to perform. He has had more chances than most and haven't produced. I personally think Vermaak deserves a start ahead of Pienaar. Vermaak distributes the ball a lot quicker than Pienaar (oh wait, every other scrum half in the world does). Joking aside, Vermaak is a great distributor of the ball.

Agreed. Vermaak has a better pass, is quicker to get the ball cleared and is a danger around the fringes and his sniping runs can keep the opposition defense wary of shooting up too quickly. Pienaar supposedly is class but like you said, how many chnaces more wil he be given to show it?

Am I the only one that think that we are a little thin at 8th man, never mind lock and tight head? What happens if Dwayne gets injured, which can happen easily as he has played a lot of rugby this year. Spies?? haha. when the going gets tough, the tough gets....where the hell is Spies? haha. No disrespect, he has served us well before. He just needs to work at that aspect of his game. It is not like he isn't big enough.

8th man we have a couple of good options beyond Spies IMO although many of our better players are overseas. For instance Bernard le Roux who might jog out for France this weekend. Spies just hasn't produced in 4 years. Kankowski isn't a test player, neither is Daniel. These players I feel are blocking the production line but I am not too fussed; the talent is there, we must just back the youth. I'd like a guy like Philip van der Walt to come through but on hard surfaces to play too his strengths. There is no reason we can't play somone like Arno Botha at 8 which is where he played most of his rugby in any case. To surmise; we didn't have settled back-up to Spies before he got injured but look at how Vermeulen has stepped up given the chance. It'll happen for others as well.

At lock, I think we have the goods and depth as well even though there is an asterisk next to a few of the names; Etzebeth, Flip van der Merwe has been playing brilliantly this tour and one game in the RC. I am very happy to eat my words. Then there is Bakkies who is a very handy player to have around the fringes for depth and experience and young PS du Toit is just waiting to shine if you ask me. I'd be surprised if we had to look beyond these 4 but there are options; Andries Bekker, Gerhard Mostert, Juandre Kruger and Franco van der Merwe all capped and Lood de Jager a classy lock and young enough to still get a look in for the bokke if you ask me (he is extended family so I am a bit biased LOL)

Tighthead is my main concern beyond 9, yes. Malherbe has shown enough I think to warrant a couple of more chances when he is fit again. We know we have a solid scrummiger in Jannie du Plessis and I hope the rest due to injury does him well as he was becoming a liability in the loose. I do feel though that because we have been relying of JdP for so long that we feel we don't have back-up when we do in fact. We know Coenie is dynamite in the loose and this weekend will be as tough a test at TH for him as they come. If he succeeds there we are golden IMO.

@Stormer: Forgot about Mujati. Why the hell is he not interested in playing for the Boks?

Mujati is a class player but has said that he felt like he was "window dressing" with the Bokke. I don't know what his experiences was but its clear hhe didn't feel included and know he has been approached by Meyer but turned it down.

 

[Big Ewis]

Have we even played against them in a World Cup since 1995?

ehhhhhhh, don't tell me about that match...!!

Honestly I quite like that we rarely face off. It makes it all the more special. Like, I'm REALLY looking forward to this one. Since I've been a fan officially, I've never had the opportunity to anticipate a FRA SA match. Some matchups have turned stale already and have completely lost of their 'exotic' flavor: Australia have played Italy 7 times in 6 years, not a year skipped. Sure each time is a new situation and each match has its own complexion, but it's still a yearly thing.
France South Africa is most definitely the rarest fixture in terms of top nations for France. We've faced off just once during a RWC, in a...rather controversial ending.
We've played each other 'just' 11 times since the new millennium, and 9 times during the 90's.

Speaking of our confrontations since the new millennium, here's a table of all the results throughout the 2000's/10's so far (excellent for France):
[TABLE="class: wikitable"]
<tbody>[TR]
[TH]Date[/TH]
[TH]Venue[/TH]
[TH]Score[/TH]
[TH]Victor[/TH]
[TH]Comments[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]23 November 2013[/TD]
[TD]Stade de France, Saint-Denis, France[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]–[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]2013 end-of-year test[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]12 June 2010[/TD]
[TD]Newlands, Cape Town, South Africa[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]42 – 17[/TD]
[TD]

South Africa[/TD]
[TD]2010 mid-year test[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]13 November 2009[/TD]
[TD]Stadium Municipal, Toulouse, France[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]20 – 13[/TD]
[TD]

France[/TD]
[TD]2009 end of year rugby union tests[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]24 June 2006[/TD]
[TD]Newlands, Cape Town[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]26 – 36[/TD]
[TD]

France[/TD]
[TD]2006 mid-year test[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]26 November 2005[/TD]
[TD]Stade de France, Saint-Denis, France[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]26 – 20[/TD]
[TD]

France[/TD]
[TD]2005 Autumn International[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]25 June 2005[/TD]
[TD]Boet Erasmus Stadium, Port Elizabeth, South Africa[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]27 – 13[/TD]
[TD]

South Africa[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]18 June 2005[/TD]
[TD]ABSA Stadium, Durban, South Africa[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]30 – 30[/TD]
[TD] draw[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]9 November 2002[/TD]
[TD]Stade Vélodrome, Marseille, France[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]30 – 10[/TD]
[TD]

France[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]10 November 2001[/TD]
[TD]Stade de France, Saint-Denis[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]20 – 10[/TD]
[TD]

France[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]23 June 2001[/TD]
[TD]Kings Park Stadium, Durban[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]20 – 15[/TD]
[TD]

South Africa[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]16 June 2001[/TD]
[TD]Ellis Park, Johannesburg, South Africa[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]23 – 32[/TD]
[TD]

France[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
</tbody>[/TABLE]

South Africa have started the new 2010's decade really well with a big victory at home, maybe this will be South Africa's turn to give the decade a Boks-tinged color.
And again, South Africa hasn't won in France since their blowout of the hosts in 1997...this is really a special match we're about to behold. It may be a classic.