EOYT: England vs South Africa, 24/11/2012

[SomeOke]

Springbok Alberts and Shark Alberts are very different players.
To say that Lambie is better/worse/potato than Goosen would be unwise. They have played a handful of matches for the Springboks and both suffered time out injured.

Very true. Either of them could prove to be better, I just think as Goosen is quicker, bigger and has a bigger boot he has more of the raw attributes. Doesn't mean he's better or will be better but I do think he is marginally better equipped in terms of the potential player he could become.

 

[Draggs]

I do see Lambie as possessing greater attacking skill. In an ideal world, it would be Lambie to start and Goosen to close the match out. Elton is just too inconsistent under pressure for my liking.
Lambie has missed a few matches over the course of the past two Super Rugby tournaments, and also played out of position for most of the most recent edition.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

You can't choose as a captain a man with only one cap. And that's what Lancaster did. Today Robshaw just proved him wrong. He is not ready for the job, not at all. Today's game was vital for England and for its future with the home World Cup in mind. Such a big mistake; England needs a new captain. Robshaw could be fine in a couple of years, not now.

The thing is, though: Who?
There are few certain starters, and few with real test experience.
I suppose Hartley would be the top choice, but he's not around at the moment, through injury.
Parling? Cole?
Wood?
To be honest I'd like to see a backrow of 6. Haskell, 7. Wood, 8. Morgan, next week, so Wood could move in to Robshaw's shirt and captaincy.

 

[jeffb]

I believe, before the match, all the England players had a personnal mascot. Each mascot came from each players original club. I'd like to see a pic of the mascot for Chris Ashton and Owen Farrell.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I was wondering: Did they have to fly in a kid from Durbin for Brad Barritt?

Vunipola, Tuilagi and Botha all played here as amateurs, so they have clubs, but Barritt came here as a pro...
and did Ashton play Union as a kid? I'm sure I read somewhere he didn't, so was his mascot from his amateur rugby league club?

 

[j'nuh]

The thing is, though: Who?
There are few certain starters, and few with real test experience.
I suppose Hartley would be the top choice, but he's not around at the moment, through injury.
Parling? Cole?
Wood?
To be honest I'd like to see a backrow of 6. Haskell, 7. Wood, 8. Morgan, next week, so Wood could move in to Robshaw's shirt and captaincy.

I'd stick with Robshaw for now. Even if he didn't have the international recognition to match it, he was the form 6 for most of MJ's reign. It seems a little knee-jerk to replace him now, one game before the end of a series.

We can reevaluate where everyone in the EPS is at at the end of the year.

Think that Hartley should be captain in the future though. Even if he's a good captain, Robshaw is uncertain of his place. Hartley is a good captain but is also an obvious starter. (Actually, him, Foden and Cole are the only ones imo.)

EDIT: Just read some of the comments. Do people actually think Robshaw made a bad decision to go for the points at the end of the game? We'd managed one try in 160 minutes against understrength/underperforming teams, and the backline is a joke. I can't see how we'd have scored a try. Taking the points and then playing for territory and a penalty in the 80th minute seemed to me as if it was the only way England could win...

 

[Peat]

Going for the try off the driving maul should be the default option there. Even if it goes wrong, you'll still get the ball back in their half, while if retaking the start goes wrong - as it did - you're basically done for.

Given just how shoddy the lineout was today, and our general scoring prowess, I'm not sure how much I blame Robshaw for not trusting them. Blame the entire team for being 4 points behind on a day when we dominated territory and possession... but in terms of the actual decision then... I think he did the wrong thing. But not as clear cut as some are saying imo.

Either way, I think his position looks somewhat precarious. A shame, but there we go. He's had a full shot, can't say fairer than that.

 

[Nobblynick]

So a cynical view:

Blame everyone but the Quins player

Why would you blame everyone but the Quins player? You've lost me there.

Unless you we're being facetious in reference to the club I support? In which case i am struggling to get my point across. The team lost the game, not one solitary decision which wasn't that bad given that we seem incapable of scoring tries.

I'll sign out of this one now......

 

[TRF_heineken]

I have to agree with Olyy here about Lambie. I won't be touting Lambie's horn after these last 3 performances. Along with Pienaar, they are suppose to be our playmakers, but didn't show any of that. I think this was Pienaar's last test for a very long while, if not ever... As for flyhalf, Lambie didn't convince me at all. He kicked well for goal, but that was it. His kicking for touch left again much to be desired, he should in future put the ball on a tee and go for touch, because then he'll get much more distance.

Our rebuilding year is now over and HM has now a record of won 7, drawn 2, lost, 3. We got are back at 2nd on the IRB rankings and we have bled some youngsters. For a rebuilding year, that is mission accomplished in my books. How many international teams can say they have won more than 50% of their matches and had more than 10 debutants in the same year?

Willem Alberts physicality once again impressed me a lot, he's like the Hulk... Much tougher when green...

Now, let the guys have a deserved break, HM go throw all those broken walkie talkies in the Jukskei River, relax, and take your mind off things... Next year will be the start of the Boks next golden era!

Sent from my BlackBerry 9800 using Tapatalk

 

[Draggs]

Francois Steyn is likely to start, so you have you touch-kicker.
Lambie wasn't great, aye, but the outside half shirt is not beyond him. I hope he an Goosen have injury-free runs in the Super Rugby. Lambie looked a little more comfortable as the game went on, a few infield kicks were pretty nice.
Who is likely to enter the team next year? Certainly there must be another option for fullback, and scrumhalf is very much open.

 

[peanuts40]

People can say what they like about Lambie, but he kicks the goals at least, which is a lot more than you can say about Morne.

He got better every game, and can only do so much with such a negative gameplan in place.

 

[Gena_ZA]

Happy my Boks won again at Twikkies, 2012 is over and looking forward to 2013
For the record Goosen will become the best no 10 in world rugby next year

 

[Joseph14]

I know Lancaster made a fair few changes from the oz game but like everyone he has his favourites and players he trusts for whatever reason. Robshaw is one of the these. He won't be losing his starting position any time soon let alone the captaincy.

 

[TRF_heineken]

I think next year HM should focus at the problem areas for the Boks. Flyhalf could be one, but If Goosen is fit, then that would change. Scrumhalf is one problem area, 12 and 13 and maybe 15, but Zane was one of our best backs on this tour!

The thing that should happen now is:
HM should have a sit down with the Super Rugby coaches, and tell them which players he wants to play in which position so that they can develop their game. If Lambie isn't going to play flyhalf for the Sharks, he shouldn't play flyhalf for the Boks. same goes for Hougaard, Taute and any other guy who has immense talent but gets wasted out of position to accommodate has-beens, never-was and coach-buddies... It's time the best of the best gets their rightful spot in the team to show their class!!

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

Francois Steyn is likely to start, so you have you touch-kicker.
Lambie wasn't great, aye, but the outside half shirt is not beyond him. I hope he an Goosen have injury-free runs in the Super Rugby. Lambie looked a little more comfortable as the game went on, a few infield kicks were pretty nice.
Who is likely to enter the team next year? Certainly there must be another option for fullback, and scrumhalf is very much open.

I think the scrum-half, inside-center and full-back positions are up for grabs.


Scrum-half: Jano Vermaak, Cobus Reinach, Piet van Zyl, Nic Groom

Inside-center: Francois Steyn, Tim Whitehead, Jan Serfontein, Marcel Brache

Full-back: Louis Ludik, Andries Coetzee (will he play Super Rugby?), Gio Aplon, Willie le Roux

 

[Tony Manx]

Which Quins player would you blame for the try?
The Tiger that hacked it or the Saint that knocked it forward when trying to gather it?

The Oik!

One thing that did stand out is the pack genuinely looked good.

They looked competent with the benevolent assistance of Owens who made some strange calls against the Boks and if you bear in mind Corbs was not fit and Youngs cannot throw under pressure which puts your scrum and your line out under pressure. Whilst Corbs needs playing time to improve, will Youngs?

Come back Hartley as Captain ASAP!!

 

[j'nuh]

Either way, I think his position looks somewhat precarious. A shame, but there we go. He's had a full shot, can't say fairer than that.

Even in good form, I would have said it was. We have a ridiculous amount of short and long term options at 6 and 7: Croft, Armitage, Haskell, Robshaw, Johnson, Wood, Launchbury, Seymour and others who have a shot at emerging: Kvesic, Savage, Gray, Clark, Gibson, Nutley etc.

Even worse for Robshaw is that if Armitage gets into the next EPS, he has a certain place in the XV. Which means there's one flanker spot open, and a lot of 6s to choose from. Armitage/Robshaw/Haskell at 8 may be an option, and might be preferable to Waldrom even, but developing Morgan should be a priority.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

One thing I really feel we need to change is how we react when we have a penalty but are in a try-scoring position. Yesterday I think it was Browns break which led to 3 points. But if Youngs hadnt arsed up thee pass we might have had a try. The fact of the matter is that any well-drilled team which has made the linebreak should be able to capitalise if it backs itself. New Zealand score these tries and don't need to take the penalty. England don't score these tries. We get sloppy and don't execute. I think it's very short-sighted to do that and to not realise that at some point in the game you might regret not taking your opportunity. I really feel our backs don't have the confidence that they can execute.

 

[j'nuh]

^ Yup. There are too many players living on past glory in the backline at this point (Youngs, Ashton, Flood) and those who are a little one-dimensional (Farrell, Barritt, arguably Tuilagi). Very few are form players. May, Wade, Burns, 12T, Joseph, step up please.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

^ Yup. There are too many players living on past glory in the backline at this point (Youngs, Ashton, Flood) and those who are a little one-dimensional (Farrell, Barritt, arguably Tuilagi). Very few are form players. May, Wade, Burns, 12T, Joseph, step up please.

Agreed. For me one of the biggest mistakes Lancaster has made was to drop an in-form Sharples in favour of 1 out of form winger and 1 full-back. Same goes for choosing Youngs over Care. If you make these choices how can you hope to give players the confidence to know that if they keep playing well they will keep their places. Mad.