You need to watch more of him
and then see why all the coaches rate him so highly. Obviously you do not see his sheer powerful tackling ability and athleticism which is very rare for a forward his size.
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EOYT: England v New Zealand, 01/12/2012
- Thread starter Draggs
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You need to watch more of him
and then see why all the coaches rate him so highly. Obviously you do not see his sheer powerful tackling ability and athleticism which is very rare for a forward his size.
Patchey
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Fair point, to be honest having either in the time is a boon and I don't even have words for how much better it is to have them in the 23 than Botha...
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Yep, I picked up on the England offsides, just as I picked up on the New Zealand offsides
Both teams pretty quickly worked out that Mr Clancy is a bit slack when it comes to offside pillars and midfield
austingtir
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Yes i noticed this during the game aswell and i watched both sides and both sides were deff offside pretty much the whole time.
Clancy was consistent got to give him that. I do feel England took better advantage of it than we did and hats off to them as you have to play to the whistle.
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How weird?? Probably the first time that the All Blacks got outsmarted with the ref's interpretation... Clearly a sign that the guys are fatigued
austingtir
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Funny but oh so true and you know it.
what a good idea! but I would have it like this: 4.Launchbury 5.Parling 6.Lawes (could swap with launchburry but 6 suits his huge tackling better) 7.Robshaw 8.Morgan
England have a huge amount of depth in the second and back row
Parling, Lawes, Launchbury, Wood, Robshaw, Haskell, Wood, (Armitage)
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Croft?
Shush
i just think croft when he was a regular for England a lot of times in the match he was anonymous. But he has one thing none of the other 6,7's has and thats PACE!! and tackling is not bad either. Its a big battle between him and Wood IMO, its whoever is on form.
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I think wood offers so much more than Croft. Wood is better i n the tackle, better at rucking, just as good in the lineout, Wood is very fast for a backrow but not as fast as Croft but overall just offers so much more physicality which we really missed when croft was playing.
I know he had a good Lions tour but he often ends up on the wing not doing his job. Wood is always in the thick of things doing what a 6 should be doing, i can never say that about Croft.
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Just watched this again (which you can do here) and I remembered the last twenty minutes which for me were just as encouraging as the first 60:
We know Farrell played well, but there's a danger of forgetting how good Burns was when he came on. Granted, New Zealand were tiring and holes were appearing but he really showed an eye for the gaps and his passing to exploit these was sublime. We could have had more tries at the end, and I think that although we were all delighted with Farrell, we shouldn't lose sight of the goal of having a truly creative and great distributing fly-half.
What pleased me about the final 20 was seeing EVERYONE have a crack, and I was delighted to see Lawes hitting the line and making some big carries. It'll be good to see him against Ulster on Friday if he's playing. David Paice looked sharp too, and I guess that's what you get from being in a confident team on the front foot.
In the link above, Justin Marshall (commentating) made quite a good point about Ashton, and that whilst he naturally lapped up the try scoring opportunity, it was Tuilagi who created it all - this reminded me really that Ashton shouldn't be let off the hook just because he's scoring again. I think he had a decent all around game but then again, he always flourishes in a team on top. What matters just as much, though, is how players do when your side is up against it, and for me Ashton goes absent in those conditions. I guess all I'm saying that Ashton isn't an automatic selection, and that in some ways he's been lucky to make the last couple of match 23's. For me, Sharples should be pressing for more starts in the six nations.
Wood was brilliant but he played the game of an openside, really. Not that it matters, as the system works with two 6.5's, but what it does prove is that if Robshaw gets injured, we have an obvious replacement at 7, without people harping on about Armitage
One thing I think this series has made me realise is that there's some Saracens players who are better/more rounded players than you might think from watching them in the premiership, but who are probably constrained by the style of the club's rugby. For example I do think Barritt has much more to his game than just strong defence, but that it takes a few weeks with the England set-up for that to really show itself, and I'm glad that's started to show somewhat for England. Goode and Farrell also seem to show more for England than for Sarries. Still, Goode ain't no Ben Foden.
We know Farrell played well, but there's a danger of forgetting how good Burns was when he came on. Granted, New Zealand were tiring and holes were appearing but he really showed an eye for the gaps and his passing to exploit these was sublime. We could have had more tries at the end, and I think that although we were all delighted with Farrell, we shouldn't lose sight of the goal of having a truly creative and great distributing fly-half.
What pleased me about the final 20 was seeing EVERYONE have a crack, and I was delighted to see Lawes hitting the line and making some big carries. It'll be good to see him against Ulster on Friday if he's playing. David Paice looked sharp too, and I guess that's what you get from being in a confident team on the front foot.
In the link above, Justin Marshall (commentating) made quite a good point about Ashton, and that whilst he naturally lapped up the try scoring opportunity, it was Tuilagi who created it all - this reminded me really that Ashton shouldn't be let off the hook just because he's scoring again. I think he had a decent all around game but then again, he always flourishes in a team on top. What matters just as much, though, is how players do when your side is up against it, and for me Ashton goes absent in those conditions. I guess all I'm saying that Ashton isn't an automatic selection, and that in some ways he's been lucky to make the last couple of match 23's. For me, Sharples should be pressing for more starts in the six nations.
Wood was brilliant but he played the game of an openside, really. Not that it matters, as the system works with two 6.5's, but what it does prove is that if Robshaw gets injured, we have an obvious replacement at 7, without people harping on about Armitage
One thing I think this series has made me realise is that there's some Saracens players who are better/more rounded players than you might think from watching them in the premiership, but who are probably constrained by the style of the club's rugby. For example I do think Barritt has much more to his game than just strong defence, but that it takes a few weeks with the England set-up for that to really show itself, and I'm glad that's started to show somewhat for England. Goode and Farrell also seem to show more for England than for Sarries. Still, Goode ain't no Ben Foden
.Henry some good points.
Regarding Ashton, you really need to look at his supporting lines and the amount of running he does hunting for the ball over the shoulder of main ball carriers. We really don't have that kind of player playing for England at the moment. Also un-noticed and under appreciated is the amount of ground he covers "looking" for the ball and getting back into position for defence. Ashton has a really good engine. Players like him will always score trys because of their intelligent line play/positioning over people shoulders. So yes Manu set-it up but Ashtons intelligent line play got him into position to finish it off -which is what great players do.
Barrit i know people knock him but he is asked to perform a completely different game for England which is why Lancaster will always pick him. He has very good pace which we only saw last week. His defensive organisation and intelligent positional play in the centre minimises the opposite centres space to be creative. Again for saracens he has more freedom and in great form. I have a feeling JJ will have a look-in BUT think first choice will be Barrit.
Regarding Ashton, you really need to look at his supporting lines and the amount of running he does hunting for the ball over the shoulder of main ball carriers. We really don't have that kind of player playing for England at the moment. Also un-noticed and under appreciated is the amount of ground he covers "looking" for the ball and getting back into position for defence. Ashton has a really good engine. Players like him will always score trys because of their intelligent line play/positioning over people shoulders. So yes Manu set-it up but Ashtons intelligent line play got him into position to finish it off -which is what great players do.
Barrit i know people knock him but he is asked to perform a completely different game for England which is why Lancaster will always pick him. He has very good pace which we only saw last week. His defensive organisation and intelligent positional play in the centre minimises the opposite centres space to be creative. Again for saracens he has more freedom and in great form. I have a feeling JJ will have a look-in BUT think first choice will be Barrit.
Dizzy
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Just want to congratulate England on their victory. They played out of their skins and rightly so deserved the win. They were the hungrier team on the day..
And I am sooooo happy Hansen didn't make excuses for the loss and actually acknowledged Englands win.. I was waiting for the food poisoning to come out in the post match interviews but thankfully, they were all humble about the loss.
Well done England.
And I am sooooo happy Hansen didn't make excuses for the loss and actually acknowledged Englands win.. I was waiting for the food poisoning to come out in the post match interviews but thankfully, they were all humble about the loss.
Well done England.
Aristodemus
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The win against the AB's was incredible but I feel we should take a look at the performance over three games. The team still has issues for me.
I thought Corbs had an awesome series, he cemented his place at LH. Youngs has a great leg drive and is a real handful for the opposition, but he isn't good enough for me at the lineout which really cost us v SA and Aus. I think Hartley is our best option still. What can you say about Dan Cole, the guy is a hero and possibly the best TH in world rugby right now. I agree with the people saying Lawes and Launchbury can't both play unless Croft is in at 6 for the lineout. Lawes is the better player and he hurts people which although isn't nice is something for the opposition to think about under the high ball and such, if it is one or the other we should stick to Courtney. Wood was amazing and despite his poor judgement calls in the two games Robshaw was also, he will learn from that and it is good those sort of things didn't happen in a WC or big 6nations game. Morgan should have been playing from the start, he is much better than Waldrom and has alot of potential. Tubby Waldrom shouldn't even be playing for England imo but that is another story. I like Ben Youngs and thought he was decent, perhaps not quite his top form but ability-wise I dont see a better SH in the NH and with Care as back up we have real strength in depth. 10 is obviously key, I will say it outright, I don't like Farrell and thought his IRB nomination was a jest of bad taste. I hope Flood and Burns get the nod for the six nations, and would also like to see Ford brought into the squad if possible just to get him in the set-up. I expect in a couple of years he will be the man we back for the WC. As for wingers, I agree that Ashton offers something different and despite his lack of tries lately he is a poacher. I think he is #1 choice and then after that Sharples should be given a real run in the team. Him being dropped was extremely harsh. Mike Brown did a great job and he should have been in the side, but at full-back. I didn't like the decision to play Goode because Brown has been in great form for a long time waiting for his shot when Ben (who should be first choice when fit) wasn't available. As for the centre's I don't think anyone is doubting Manu anymore, what a player he could be for England in the future. He carved his way through NZ and you could say he created all our tries despite Barritt's (who also shouldn't play for England) best efforts to butcher the first. I think 12 is our main problem now, we need a creative player inside Tuilagi. Somebody like Fofana or even Hook would be great but I don't see any right now.
All in all I think the future is looking good, but we are nowhere near NZ..... yet. 2015 has to be what we work towards and I just hope that Lancaster backs the guys he thinks will take us there.
I thought Corbs had an awesome series, he cemented his place at LH. Youngs has a great leg drive and is a real handful for the opposition, but he isn't good enough for me at the lineout which really cost us v SA and Aus. I think Hartley is our best option still. What can you say about Dan Cole, the guy is a hero and possibly the best TH in world rugby right now. I agree with the people saying Lawes and Launchbury can't both play unless Croft is in at 6 for the lineout. Lawes is the better player and he hurts people which although isn't nice is something for the opposition to think about under the high ball and such, if it is one or the other we should stick to Courtney. Wood was amazing and despite his poor judgement calls in the two games Robshaw was also, he will learn from that and it is good those sort of things didn't happen in a WC or big 6nations game. Morgan should have been playing from the start, he is much better than Waldrom and has alot of potential. Tubby Waldrom shouldn't even be playing for England imo but that is another story. I like Ben Youngs and thought he was decent, perhaps not quite his top form but ability-wise I dont see a better SH in the NH and with Care as back up we have real strength in depth. 10 is obviously key, I will say it outright, I don't like Farrell and thought his IRB nomination was a jest of bad taste. I hope Flood and Burns get the nod for the six nations, and would also like to see Ford brought into the squad if possible just to get him in the set-up. I expect in a couple of years he will be the man we back for the WC. As for wingers, I agree that Ashton offers something different and despite his lack of tries lately he is a poacher. I think he is #1 choice and then after that Sharples should be given a real run in the team. Him being dropped was extremely harsh. Mike Brown did a great job and he should have been in the side, but at full-back. I didn't like the decision to play Goode because Brown has been in great form for a long time waiting for his shot when Ben (who should be first choice when fit) wasn't available. As for the centre's I don't think anyone is doubting Manu anymore, what a player he could be for England in the future. He carved his way through NZ and you could say he created all our tries despite Barritt's (who also shouldn't play for England) best efforts to butcher the first. I think 12 is our main problem now, we need a creative player inside Tuilagi. Somebody like Fofana or even Hook would be great but I don't see any right now.
All in all I think the future is looking good, but we are nowhere near NZ..... yet. 2015 has to be what we work towards and I just hope that Lancaster backs the guys he thinks will take us there.
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Sorry got to disagree, if you watch the matches Croft playes he is the go to man in the line outs and support running. He offers more attacking threat than any other forward we have and before everyone moans about him not doing a flankers job the reason he was sooo good for the lions is because Geech and co worked that it would be far far better having Croft hitting support lines in the midfield than rolling around on the floor. Dayglo didnt get to mixed up with the donkey work but no one seemed to mind when he was rampaging up the middle of pitch.
