English summer rugby

[TRF_Olyy]

Ceviche.

 

[Crapspray]

I'm a bit surprised that more hasn't been made of the lack of a captain. Is it anything more than protocol? Or a kick up the arse for Robshaw? Does Robshaw even need a kick up the arse?

I can't see why Robshaw would lose it, or what he's done to lose it. Wood was lacklustre in Argentina and I can't see any other real contenders. No back has the experience other than Flood, who is out of favour. Parling is the other player that comes to mind – if only so it frees up the backrow conundrum.

For me, on current form, the backrow against Australia would be Wood, Robshaw, and Morgan; with Kvesic on the bench to potentially supplant - as Wood did last year. So I would pick Robshaw. Nothing I've seen has lead me to believe he's a bad captain or player; man of the match in two games in the Six Nations is testament to that. I'd also start him ahead of Wood should Kvesic demand a starting place.

It all seems a bit strange from Lancaster. It doesn't really sit with the squad mentality if there is no incumbent captain. Nor will it particularly endear him to whoever ends up with it. Is he trying to restructure the squad so much he wants to make sure it's as malleable as possible?

---

Having mentioned Flood, I think I'm almost converted to him starting. No other back has anything like the experience –Care has 40 caps, but won't start, and Youngs and Ashton are next, both of whom are inconsistent to say the least. The lack of a real leader leaves the back line rudderless in a rough match. Considering a back line of Youngs, Farrell, Yarde, Twelvetrees, Tuilagi, Wade, and Brown only has 95 caps (a third of which is Youngs alone) I feel they are too likely to break under pressure.

 

[ratsapprentice]

The captain should be announced when the team is IMO.
If Robshaw is good enough to start every game, then he will be captain of every game.

I'd say that formally enshrining your captain three months out from a tournament is detrimental to the "squad mentality" as it means someone will start regardless of their form.

 

[Peat]

What rats said. I prefer it this way.

 

[Crapspray]

I'd say that formally enshrining your captain three months out from a tournament is detrimental to the "squad mentality" as it means someone will start regardless of their form.

Fair enough.

While time will tell, barring a change in position and severe drop in form, I just can't imagine Robshaw being replaced. At least for form's sake. Is there anyone who would oust him on the leadership side of things?

 

[Patchey]

Thankthebabyjesus.


In other news... Matt Ceviche looks like a proper hard nut with his head shaved.

Someone lost the Glos milk challenge...

 

[ratsapprentice]

I think they canned the milk bit, and just shave new guy's head!

 

[Patchey]

But that is much less fun!

Apart from Varndel coming in have there been any other developments from the England camp? I've been away for a bit and feel like I've missed something.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

I actually think Wood offers more than Robshaw, he is better around the park, hits rucks like a beast and is super strong in the lineout and tackle. I do think Robshaw has done an amazing job.The real question here is has kvesic done enough to oust either robshaw or wood? I thought they worked quite well as a combo with Morgan to be honest.

 

[welshglory]

Do you guys reckon Lancaster might go for a 6-2 split on the bench.
If one of Robshaw or Wood is on the blindside, then having Croft on the bench would offer great impact.
This is obviously if Kvesic warrants a starting position at 7.

6.Robshaw/Wood
7.Kvesic
8.Morgan

19.Lawes/Attwood
20.Croft
21.Vunipola

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I keep forgetting about Croft!

I'd expect Lancaster to go with
6. Wood
7. Robshaw
8. Morgan
20. Kvesic

But with Croft...I'm not sure. Him at 6, Wood/Robshaw on the bench and Kvesic missing out? Would be unfair on Kvesic, and I'd rather lose one of Wood/Robshaw/Croft than him, to be honest.
I definitely wouldn't want a 6-2 split on the bench.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Having an openside is probably not good news for Croft, because his impact will be negated somewhat by the fact that Kvesic (or Fraser) is actually pretty rapid himself.
He will be faster, but not so much that he can realistically be used as an impact player.
I think it will come down to who fits into the traditional role of a 6 better, and I think that will be either Robshaw or Wood.
And that will be a tough call, because I think they are pretty much neck and neck when it comes to overall quality as players.
We will see whether Robshaw can pip him to it by being able to have a proper pre-season knowing that he is more than likely going to be moving to 6.
Either way, one of Croft, Robshaw or Wood is going to miss out on the 23. I think Kvesic is pretty much guaranteed a spot on the bench.

I don't know whether Kev will start the first game in the Autumn, but he will almost certainly be starting come the end, bar a calamitous failure on his part.

I have a feeling that we might see this in the first game:

6.Robshaw
7.Kvesic
8.Morgan

19.Attwood
20.Wood
21.Vunipola

I have a feeling Launchbury may be used as a bench flanker/lock temporarily to allow Attwood a start, if he goes well.
This is of course assuming that Parling will definitely start.
If you have Launchbury covering flanker and lock (and he is only player we have that I would trust to do so) then you can have have a 5-3 bench.
I also don't think we are going to see much, if any, of Lawes.

The second and third games are anyones guess IMO, as I think selection will very much depend on how well the new guys do.
If Binny goes well off the bench in the first game, then I can see him staying there until he doesn't.
Equally, it depends on the result, I have a feeling we may revert to type should we not win reasonably comfortably.

 

[welshglory]

I get the feeling that a lot of English fans don't rate Croft.

The thing is though when players like Croft and Morgan have come back into the side you look so much better.

Without players like Wood or Robshaw you don't look that different.

 

[ratsapprentice]

http://www.therugbypaper.co.uk/dome...-frills-as-dave-attwood-batters-his-way-back/

"Geoff, Joe and Courtney are all tremendous players and have different attributes, but what I'm specifically charged to do is bash holes in people.
"The coaches want me to add some depth in terms of a player who is a big ball carrier, a maul defender and somebody who delivers big hits in defence. I hope I can offer that and it's about stringing performances together so I can have a prolonged spell in the squad.
"My extra power is the dimension I can bring. Traditionally, England have been very good at having those kinds of players in the pack. Sometimes you need someone to truck the ball up with 70 minutes on the clock. That's the focus I've been given."

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

I definitely think Kvesic should be in the side. He looks like he has the potential to do better in areas such as winning the ruck and turning over possession. It's a skill set we should really try to devlop.

 

[Patchey]

While we're linking to things here is a cracking interview with Toby Flood who appears to be in good shape. I'm a real fan of the more recent RFUTV stuff, actually interesting and informative! Also a glimpse at some nice new training kit on show.


http://www.rfu.com/news/2013/august/news-articles/140813_flood_mini_camp

 

[ratsapprentice]

He's talking as if he's a coach.

I know I'm being a completely unreasonable dick, but I really dislike Toby Flood.

 

[Peat]

Would be unfair on Kvesic, and I'd rather lose one of Wood/Robshaw/Croft than him, to be honest.
I definitely wouldn't want a 6-2 split on the bench.

Would it? He's had a decent tour of Argentina. Croft has just had a decent Lions tour and was very good in his last fit England performances. Robshaw has been very good for a year and a half in an England shirt. Wood dipped on the Argentina tour for me, but has also put in a lot of good international performances. I don't think there's anything unfair about the least accomplished international being the odd man out at international level.

Kvesic must wait his turn. It won't be long coming, we've managed about three games out of 20 odd where all three of those flankers have all been 'fit', and when it comes he must take his chance and show that a) He's just as good b) He offers something different.

As for a 6/2 split, I agree utterly, we don't have the players to adequately cover the backline, and the main reason would be to accommodate a player who categorically does not deserve an England shirt on form in Billy Vunipola.

And yes rats, a lot of senior players talk as if they were coaches when it comes to their interaction with younger players in their position.

 

[ratsapprentice]

I guess opinions on the Kvesic issue will be decided by whether people think of flankers more in the traditional way, or the French way.
I personally see them as separate positions, so would definitely have Kev in the 23, with the intention of starting him as soon as possible.
I also think that it's best for players to make their full senior debut from the bench, unless it is a game whose outcome is easily predictable (a game against Fiji for example).
So I think he should be on the bench for the first game, and if he does well, then he starts the next.

 

[j'nuh]

I think that Wood provides enough of a breakdown presence that Kvesic wouldn't be absolutely necessary. Big fan of Wood, when he's used as a 7. The problem with England is that they take a bunch of specialist flankers and make them into 6.5s.

I would be relatively happy with 6. Robshaw/Croft/Wood 7. Wood/Kvesic, as long as the form options were picked. I wouldn't avoid picking an in-form Wood just for the sake of getting Kvesic in. But I suppose we'll see what happens when the season starts.

That said, I think it's pretty clear that Lancaster is seriously considering the role of an openside. I think the biggest shift in his coaching style is to realise the importance of a ball stealer. Since 2012, guys like Clark, Johnson, Dowson and Haskell have come and gone in the England EPS, whereas guys like Fearns and Garvey have lost out in the Saxons. Meanwhile, we started with Saull in the Saxons, then we had Kvesic in the Saxons, and now we have Kvesic in the main squad, plus Fraser and Wallace in the Saxons.