English rugby clubs ‘heading for disaster’ after mounting £300m in debts

[Vieux Talonneur]

France is really the only "healthy" rugby economy - and that's kind of the issue, everyone is trying to play catch up to them
That said: supposedly a number of French clubs have pretty big debts/don't make a profit, as well - so again: sponsors and sugar daddies propping them up

I've just read that in 23/4 just 5 Top 14 and 3 D2 clubs made a profit. And this is held up as the gold standard.

The domestic pro game is a financial mess and I think some cold, hard reality is starting to kick in. More pain to come I fear and I doubt rearranging the deck chairs will cut it. Also don't forget that PE houses like CVC tend to have fairly short term horizons - they'll exit at the time to suit them, no-one else, whether that's banking a profit or cutting losses.

And on the loans, just to symbolise the Gordian Knot we're in, the Permanent Secretary at the DCMS is married to a guy who's a Director of Premiership Rugby and a Managing Partner at CVC. All properly declared etc, but you couldn't make it up.

 

[Reiser99]

I've said it before. Rugby is in real danger of no longer being a professional sport if things continue the way they are.

 

[stus768]

Isn't one of the key differences in France that owners can't leverage debt against the club so even if they leave clubs are protected?

 

[Weldit]

I've said it before. Rugby is in real danger of no longer being a professional sport if things continue the way they are.

Relax. The main thing is, the blazers are making money.

Seriously though, I agree. A huge reshuffle needs to happen or it's in trouble.

 

[mikebrownsauce1512]

Cleary its not working the way things are being run.

If its not been working for so long being run one way then why wouldn't you try and change tact otherwise it will just keep bleeding until its dead.

 

[Rinkadink]

why wouldn't you try and change tact otherwise it will just keep bleeding until its dead.

International rugby is what makes the blazers money. They'd probably like a few franchises spread around the country to compete in Europe and the rest of the sport amateur/academy based. All under full RFU control of course.

Honestly, I would like a new governing body in England at this stage. There's also the problem of a lot of crossover with World Rugby.

 

[Saintjay]

Better hope they don't lose the concussion lawsuits then things get really interesting.

 

[Weldit]

International rugby is what makes the blazers money. They'd probably like a few franchises spread around the country to compete in Europe and the rest of the sport amateur/academy based. All under full RFU control of course.

Honestly, I would like a new governing body in England at this stage. There's also the problem of a lot of crossover with World Rugby.

Are they allowed to do that? I know in other sports it's happened.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

International rugby is what makes the blazers money. They'd probably like a few franchises spread around the country to compete in Europe and the rest of the sport amateur/academy based. All under full RFU control of course.

Honestly, I would like a new governing body in England at this stage. There's also the problem of a lot of crossover with World Rugby.

Well the international game is about the only thing that does make the sport any money. And given our reality, I've heard much worse ideas than well run franchises (emphasis being on well run) as the top tier of the domestic game.

There needs to be a governing body. Why would we think another would do anything much better? While there are huge divides between club and country interests and the pro game and the amateur against a backdrop of declining participation (probably irreversible) and TV interest (possibly reversible but tough) and being a minority sport to start with its a virtually impossible job.

 

[pagliaccio_euforico]

I've just read that in 23/4 just 5 Top 14 and 3 D2 clubs made a profit. And this is held up as the gold standard.

The domestic pro game is a financial mess and I think some cold, hard reality is starting to kick in. More pain to come I fear and I doubt rearranging the deck chairs will cut it. Also don't forget that PE houses like CVC tend to have fairly short term horizons - they'll exit at the time to suit them, no-one else, whether that's banking a profit or cutting losses.

And on the loans, just to symbolise the Gordian Knot we're in, the Permanent Secretary at the DCMS is married to a guy who's a Director of Premiership Rugby and a Managing Partner at CVC. All properly declared etc, but you couldn't make it up.

Premier League PSR: Clubs total of £1bn of losses in 11 charts

BBC Sport breaks down the Premier League clubs' £1bn of losses in 11 charts.

www.bbc.com

premier league teams don't make money on the books either. They are profitable to the owners in other ways though and I'm sure it's the same way in France.

 

[pagliaccio_euforico]

Well the international game is about the only thing that does make the sport any money. And given our reality, I've heard much worse ideas than well run franchises (emphasis being on well run) as the top tier of the domestic game.

There needs to be a governing body. Why would we think another would do anything much better? While there are huge divides between club and country interests and the pro game and the amateur against a backdrop of declining participation (probably irreversible) and TV interest (possibly reversible but tough) and being a minority sport to start with its a virtually impossible job.

the unions are running at losses as well

 

[The Seeker]

I remember when Major League Rugby started playing matches in 2018 and how many rugby fans said it wouldn't last more than a season or two. Well, they're currently in their eighth season. Teams have come and gone but it's still chugging along with five of the original seven teams (including my San Diego Legion) and six others. Hopefully they'll add another team for next season bringing MLR up to an even twelve. They've had as many as thirteen in the past. I think MLR will still be around when the Men's Rugby World Cup comes to America in 2031. A successful World Cup will likely help MLR in 2032 and beyond. I hope a lot of Premiership fans will cross the pond to the United States for the 2031 RWC. There's currently two dozen US cities participating in the selection process.

 

[higgik]

I remember when Major League Rugby started playing matches in 2018 and how many rugby fans said it wouldn't last more than a season or two. Well, they're currently in their eighth season. Teams have come and gone but it's still chugging along with five of the original seven teams (including my San Diego Legion) and six others. Hopefully they'll add another team for next season bringing MLR up to an even twelve. They've had as many as thirteen in the past. I think MLR will still be around when the Men's Rugby World Cup comes to America in 2031. A successful World Cup will likely help MLR in 2032 and beyond. I hope a lot of Premiership fans will cross the pond to the United States for the 2031 RWC. There's currently two dozen US cities participating in the selection process.

View attachment 23232

The model is one which PRL should be following. Much better model for the shop window of rugby in this country.

 

[Reiser99]

Suits don't want to risk losing the traditional group of supporters in an attempt to spread the game further. Too many clubs are concentrated in small areas. It might work in football with the fan base size to have two or more clubs in a city, but rugby's fan base really isn't wide enough to be concentrating teams into small areas.