English clubs threaten USA - All Blacks in Chicago

[smartcooky]

SH teams need the NH teams to tour in June (although July would be better), and the NH teams need the SH teams to tour in November ... it's a necessary reciprocal arrangement.

You may get your wish Shaggy

http://intheloose.com/2014/05/06/global-rugby-calendar-change-agree/

[TEXTAREA]European Rugby is proposing a change to their season which would see the Northern Hemisphere season moved back a month to start in October meaning June International tours would now happen in July. This move is being made with the help of the International Players’ Association and would not only benefit Northern Hemisphere players, but would remove the annoying June International break from Super Rugby.[/TEXTAREA]

 

[LittleGuy]

July games in Toronto have the potential to be awful for spectators, hopefully if the move goes ahead they'll put games at BMO in the evening, I don't want to have to sit in that stadium at 40C weather ever again like I did in 2011.

I like the removal of the Super Rugby break, I don't like the delay of the European season, I'd rather they move to summer rugby, though that might be difficult in the South of France for reasons that are similar to Southern Ontario.

 

[Shaggy]

You may get your wish Shaggy

http://intheloose.com/2014/05/06/global-rugby-calendar-change-agree/

[TEXTAREA]European Rugby is proposing a change to their season which would see the Northern Hemisphere season moved back a month to start in October meaning June International tours would now happen in July. This move is being made with the help of the International Players' Association and would not only benefit Northern Hemisphere players, but would remove the annoying June International break from Super Rugby.[/TEXTAREA]

July games in Toronto have the potential to be awful for spectators, hopefully if the move goes ahead they'll put games at BMO in the evening, I don't want to have to sit in that stadium at 40C weather ever again like I did in 2011.

I like the removal of the Super Rugby break, I don't like the delay of the European season, I'd rather they move to summer rugby, though that might be difficult in the South of France for reasons that are similar to Southern Ontario.

Interesting, the article quoting Steve Tew in Stuff http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/.../Global-rugby-season-still-long-shot-says-Tew , says it up for discussion, but it's a long shot

 

[smartcooky]

Interesting, the article quoting Steve Tew in Stuff http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/.../Global-rugby-season-still-long-shot-says-Tew , says it up for discussion, but it's a long shot

[TEXTAREA]"Despite support from the English clubs, it seems northern leaders see the Six Nations as a major barrier and will regret the proposal in the coming days."[/TEXTAREA]

Frankly, I cannot see how it would affect Six Nations. Whether the NH Club season starts September or October, the Six Nations will still be February to mid-March, and I cannot see why that would need to change.

 

[Shaggy]

[TEXTAREA]"Despite support from the English clubs, it seems northern leaders see the Six Nations as a major barrier and will regret the proposal in the coming days."[/TEXTAREA]

Frankly, I cannot see how it would affect Six Nations. Whether the NH Club season starts September or October, the Six Nations will still be February to mid-March, and I cannot see why that would need to change.

Well, hopefully it will go through then ... would be good for the Super Rugby Countries (I would say SANZAR but I guess I need to include Argentina and possibly the other Nation to be included in 2016)

 

[austingtir]

Self interest or not, I think he is right...................there are far too many International matches and this might mean that when they are played, they are actually worthwhile because the Summer tour by England seems totally pointless and is only being carried out to fulfil money commitments and to ensure the ABs come back to Europe in the Autumn...

The only reason this England tour is pointless is because the clubs as usual arent releasing all the best players because you lot have got some shonky final to play. I mean they play a ridiculous amount of games in the club season up there already and these twits that own the clubs want more... so they get more gate takings....

We have a WC in England next year and imo you lot are to gutless to come down here and actually field a decent team. You'd rather try and hoodwink us next year....

No matter which way you look at it the NZ setup is the pinnacle of how a top sports body for a country should be setup in control from the top down not the bottom feeders up as in your country. (although they are talking selling the super teams off now...<_<)

 

[goodNumber10]

Fair enough, however, we allow players in our competitions (ITM Cup & Super Rugby) to play for their countries even outside the test window.

Outside the window, or outside the domestic season?

Do you have some examples of the first?

Not saying they don't, it's just not something I'd noticed before.

 

[goodNumber10]

The only reason this England tour is pointless is because the clubs as usual arent releasing all the best players because you lot have got some shonky final to play. I mean they play a ridiculous amount of games in the club season up there already and these twits that own the clubs want more... so they get more gate takings....

We have a WC in England next year and imo you lot are to gutless to come down here and actually field a decent team. You'd rather try and hoodwink us next year....

No matter which way you look at it the NZ setup is the pinnacle of how a top sports body for a country should be setup in control from the top down not the bottom feeders up as in your country. (although they are talking selling the super teams off now...<_<)

New Zealand won't move the tests to a week later as they clash with a super rugby round only they are involved in.

They could actually move those games to the week before the test series and have the rest weekend the week after the window like the rest of super rugby. It might encroach on travel time but everyone would win, including the punters who would get to see a full strength England in test one.

Our premiership final is always the last weekend in may, SANZAR wouldn't move a regular season game but we should move our final?

:banghead:

 

[William18]

Outside the window, or outside the domestic season?

Do you have some examples of the first?

Not saying they don't, it's just not something I'd noticed before.

I don't think it has happened. It's all very well to be morally superior about something which will never even happen. I think it is fair enough if clubs don't want to release their players. They have paid for them and international windows are there for a reason.

 

[goodNumber10]

[TEXTAREA]"Despite support from the English clubs, it seems northern leaders see the Six Nations as a major barrier and will regret the proposal in the coming days."[/TEXTAREA]

Frankly, I cannot see how it would affect Six Nations. Whether the NH Club season starts September or October, the Six Nations will still be February to mid-March, and I cannot see why that would need to change.

Moving it will have major revenue impact, the Six Nations is a Major tourist income stream that the Tri/Rugby Championship just isn't comparable to. Moving the competition t later in the season will impact on that as you'll be moving into peak tourist times.

On a playing level you have to take into account this will effect 3 different competitions on a domestic level and two major competitions on a pan-European level as well as the Six Nations B cup etc... Where does our Heineken Cup sit in all of this if you move the Season back two months (France start in August)? It will land smack bang in the middle of the six natons if it isn't moved withn the domestic season structure, and if it's moved within the domestic season to accommodate the six nations it impacts on club revenue streams with them effectively shutting down for lengthy periods whilst the international tournaments go on.

SANZAR chose to take the break in the Super XV competition, not the IRB, they could play through the Test windows as some NH competitions do. Why don't you move your season forward to accommodate the international window align with us?

SANZAR do nothing that isn't in their own self interest, making out they are the shining white nights of global rugby is laughable at best.

 

[smartcooky]

Moving it will have major revenue impact, the Six Nations is a Major tourist income stream that the Tri/Rugby Championship just isn't comparable to. Moving the competition t later in the season will impact on that as you'll be moving into peak tourist times.

Who's talking about moving the Six Nations.

On a playing level you have to take into account this will effect 3 different competitions on a domestic level and two major competitions on a pan-European level as well as the Six Nations B cup etc... Where does our Heineken Cup sit in all of this if you move the Season back two months (France start in August)? It will land smack bang in the middle of the six natons if it isn't moved withn the domestic season structure, and if it's moved within the domestic season to accommodate the six nations it impacts on club revenue streams with them effectively shutting down for lengthy periods whilst the international tournaments go on.

Really? The Heineken Cup is spread out over the entire season, 1st two rounds in October, next two rounds in December, next two rounds in January and quarter finals in April. That wouldn't need to change and would not impact on Six Nations at all, Besides, Six Nations hasn't always been over a six week period in February/March.

2000 Feb 5 - Apr 2 - (8 weeks)
2001 Feb 3 - Apr 8 (three Irish home matches were played in September & October due to foot & mouth outbreak)
2002 Feb 2 - Apr 7
2003 Feb 15 - Mar 30 (shortened to 6 weeks and moved back two weeks)
2004 Feb 14 - Mar 27
2005 Feb 5 - Mar 19 (moved forward two weeks)
2006 Feb 4 - Mar 18
2007 Feb 3 - Mar 17
2008 Feb 2 - Mar 15
2009 Feb 7 - Mar 21
2010 Feb 6 - Mar 20
2011 Feb 4 - Mar 19
2012 Feb 4 - Mar 17
2013 Feb 2 - Mar 16
2014 Feb 1 - Mar 19

Prior to that as the Five Nations ,it ran from mid January to mid March from 1989 to 1997, when was changed to early February to early April in 1998

The idea that Six Nations dates are religiously fixed and somehow sacrosanct is just BS

SANZAR chose to take the break in the Super XV competition, not the IRB, they could play through the Test windows as some NH competitions do. Why don't you move your season forward to accommodate the international window align with us?

SANZAR do nothing that isn't in their own self interest, making out they are the shining white nights of global rugby is laughable at best.

One can tend to look a bit foolish when one spouts off invective drivel without doing any research. These charges are not being driven by SANZAR

https://nz.sports.yahoo.com/rugby/n...-for-european-clubs-could-change-super-rugby/

[TEXTAREA]Premier Rugby and the International Players Association are behind a proposal that would see the European domestic season moved back a month to start in October, meaning international tours wouldn't happen until July.[/TEXTAREA]

Premier Rugby; thats your lot isn't it?

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

would there be any difference if the current date 1st November ran at the time of the LV cup fixtures (This year they were on the 8th and 15th of November) they have in November and not a PRL fixture?

Me myself i'm hoping to be in America from August till end of November to do some travelling (have work till start of August) so would be nice to watch this game.

 

[goodNumber10]

Who's talking about moving the Six Nations.

If you can control your rage for a few moments you might understand that i'm explaining to you that you are talking about moving Four Premier Domestic competitions (pro12/Top14/Aiva & HCup). Dates have to move, and structures will have to be adjusted as games will now clash.

It's impossible to move the season back two months, again i reiterate the TOP 14 starts in AUGUST not September, without changing dates within the season. You do understand that EPL does not speak for the whole of Europe? LNR also has a say - probably more so than the EPL at the moment.

Really? The Heineken Cup is spread out over the entire season, 1st two rounds in October, next two rounds in December, next two rounds in January and quarter finals in April. That wouldn't need to change and would not impact on Six Nations at all, Besides, Six Nations hasn't always been over a six week period in February/March.

of course it would impact, you can't move four major tournaments and not have a complete overhaul of the season - it's not as simple as, just slip it all back a month and leave it alone, it impacts on a ton of things including national holidays and a bunch of other major sporting events - Rugby is not king here, it fights for it's television rights and a place int eh calendar.

The idea that Six Nations dates are religiously fixed and somehow sacrosanct is just BS

I'm well aware that the 6 Nations has moved around, and no one is saying that the dates are set in stone, but it is settled into our calendar now and financially it will have a huge impact on a lot of things, If the dates have to move it will clash with Easter and a few other things including revenue streams generated from the Nationals stadiums being used outside of the sports season.

Stade de france, and Millenium Stadium and Aviva Stadium are all used for more than just rugby.

There is also major impact on our TV rights/contracts.

One can tend to look a bit foolish when one spouts off invective drivel without doing any research. These charges are not being driven by SANZAR

https://nz.sports.yahoo.com/rugby/n...-for-european-clubs-could-change-super-rugby/

[TEXTAREA]Premier Rugby and the International Players Association are behind a proposal that would see the European domestic season moved back a month to start in October, meaning international tours wouldn't happen until July.[/TEXTAREA]

Premier Rugby; thats your lot isn't it?

Not really sure you can call posting a yahoo sports link research fella.

Regardless my comment about SANZAR has nothing to do with you're musings on moving the season about and everything to do with your insipid proclamations throughout this thread that SANZAR somehow only work with the best interests of the world game at heart, and that Premier Rugby are somehow he devil in the detail in all this - which is just garbage.

What premier Rugby propose has nothing to do with what i'm saying, which is if you want a Super XV season without a break in it then why not move your season forward a month to start in January? Why is it alwasy the obligation of the NH to bow down to the SH overlords?

Talking of BS are you going to answer my other question to you? or just cherry pick the things EPL agree with you on?

 

[goodNumber10]

The NZRU has a policy of releasing players for international matches (regardless of when the match is and regardless of what country the player players for). No Pacific Islands player has ever been refused to play for their country, and when Bay of Plenty tried it with a Samoan players a few years ago, the NZRU overruled them and allowed the player to go. Fumiaki Tanaka playedr for Japan, and he is in the 2014 Highlands squad, i.e. hasn't been dropped!! Same applies to Kurt Morath (Taranaki) Taniela Moa (Bay of Plenty/Chiefs), Hale t-pole (Southland), all of whom played for Tonga in the 2013 PRC, and weren't dropped from their Super Rugby/ITM cup sides for doing so.

That would be the IRB Pacific Nations Cup then? the officially sanctioned IRB window tournament?

So what you're saying is they released them in an official window just like the Premier Rugby Clubs?

 

[LittleGuy]

That would be the IRB Pacific Nations Cup then? the officially sanctioned IRB window tournament?

So what you're saying is they released them in an official window just like the Premier Rugby Clubs?

A little pedantic but a couple of games last year were played outside of the window, Japan vs. Tonga and Canada vs. U.S.A. were both played in late May in order to facilitate the lengthy tournament, which has been shamefully shortened this year.

 

[goodNumber10]

my point is it's an IRB sanctioned and arranged competition they are obligated to release them - the Eagles test and the AI pre-window tests are not, and clubs are under no obligation to release them.

EPL released all the players in last years AI window not just the European nations.

 

[Tony Manx]

IMO, we have the balance right in the SH, an approximate 50/50 split between test and domestic matches.

...and I do not!

 

[jonny24]

While they're shifting stuff around they might as well go the whole nine yards and flip to playing in summer. Better rugby and a globally aligned calendar.

 

[goodNumber10]

you'll lose a test window and bi-yearly will cut too much into revenue generation for both Hemispheres.

i'd love to see one unified season, played over our spring to Autumn but it's not managable because of the need for multiple test windows.

 

[LittleGuy]

my point is it's an IRB sanctioned and arranged competition they are obligated to release them - the Eagles test and the AI pre-window tests are not, and clubs are under no obligation to release them.

EPL released all the players in last years AI window not just the European nations.

Maybe I didn't clarify but the clubs were not obliged to release players for the PNC matches played outside of the window last year, in fact Canada vs. U.S.A. was only turned into an official capped match at the last minute when the teams realized they could field reasonably adequate sides out of their domestic players.