• Help Support The Rugby Forum :

England's Summer Internationals Squad

iWin

Academy Player
Joined
Mar 13, 2008
Messages
238
Country Flag
UK
Club or Nation
Harlequins
So Martin Johnson will be announcing this tomorrow, and I haven't seen anything on this so I thought I'd start a bit of speculation.

There's going to be a 44 man squad, which is pretty much 3 for every position, so here's my thoughts.
Please bear in mind I have no idea who is injured and not right now, so I'm assuming fitness:

Props
Cole, Wilson, Golding, Sheridan, Mercey, Payne
As a back 3 player, this probably is going to be a very bad call, and I don't know who plays tight and loosehead, but all these have seemed fairly good in the past and more recently in some cases. Haven't seen Sheridan in ages, but lack of alternatives and decent form in the past has made me choose him, same with Payne, but without the previous performances. Really can't see much depth here without exposing a load of new people to internationals, which is not worth doing this close to the world cup. Golding and Mercey have enough inexperience for me not to want more. God knows who'd start. I certainly don't :D

Hookers
Hartley, Thompson, ***terell
Ok, I've really got no idea what the response will be. Hartley is probably the best bet in the long run but he hasn't been fantastic in previous internationals. Thompson has been pretty good when he came on, and has looked very good at Brive, so doesn't deserve dropping in my mind. ***terell is still a great player to me, and I'd have him in instead of Mears or Paice or whoever else. Hartley to start with Thompson on the bench.

Locks
Lawes, Kennedy, Shaw, Palmer, Skivington, Borthwick
Yeah. I didn't think I'd pick Palmer either, but he was pretty good when he came on at the end of the six nations, so I don't think he warrant's being dropped. Not a starter, but if he can build on that last performance, I'd be most happy to change my opinion of him. Lawes and Kennedy should have been starters for a while, so no problems there. Shaw to add weight and experience. Skivington has been decent, and is probably there above any alternatives. Borthwick there because the chances of him not making it are laughable as MJ seems to love him so much.

Backrow
Croft, Robshaw, Dowson, Easter, Haskell, Armitage, Rees, Saull
Everyone in this list bar Haskell has looked impressive in the GP, and Haskell hasn't been bad for Stade or England. Dowson and Saull are there with even less experience than Robshaw, but all have performed decently and better to find out whether they're up to it now than in 6 months. Would possibly swap Saull for Moody, but whatever. Starters should be Croft, Haskell, Armitage, with Robshaw warming the bench.

Scrumhalves
Care, Hodgson, Youngs
No need for change in these three. Simpson hasn't done enough to usurp any of them, and there's decent competition for the starting spot to keep them on their toes. Would love to see Youngs get a bit of gametime, but it's only likely to happen if one of the others messes up.

Flyhalves
Flood, Myler, Lamb
Flood has performed well enough, although by no means perfectly. Myler and Lamb have both been pretty good at club level, but are mostly there because Geraghty fails to impress me, and I'd rather have Duncan Bell than Jonny Wilkinson.
Flood to start, with Myler on the bench.

Inside Centre
Barkley, Allen, Tindall
Barkley has been firing at Bath, and he has the experience to be very good as well. Apparently he comes up with tactical stuff off the pitch too, so a good option to me. Allen has also been looking very strong at Leicester, but I think Tindall is needed so we can have a monster as a centre option. Tindall is also an option at 13 of course. Barkley to start.

Outside Centre
Tait, Clarke, Hipkiss
Tait is very good when on form, and definitely in as a pacey option out wide, although he could leave the centres a bit light without someone heavy near him. Clarke has been great for Saints, and Hipkiss is probably a solid option as well, but there aren't that many options at centre that leave me entirely happy. Clarke to start, reverting to Barkley-Hipkiss if that doesn't work.

Wings
Ashton, Monye, Cueto, Ojo, Strettle, Banahan
Ashton and Cueto ended the six nations on a high, and so would get the nod to start. Monye is good for straight line speed and has shown patches of good form during his England career. Ojo and Strettle are there because I like them. No other reason, I just do. Banahan is there because 6th best in the country is probably where he's at :D

Fullback
Foden, Armitage, Brown
Foden is the natural choice. He's pretty much the best England have to offer in the back 3 at the moment. Armitage held that ***le not so long ago, so he should definitely get the chance to show that again, but only after Foden's done with the 15 shirt. Mike Brown is another player I really like. It may be my quins glasses affecting my vision, but I think he's another good option, and I'd have him ahead of Goode or Morgan
 
Decent stab. You've forgotten about Matt Mullan who (if fit) will expect to go as one of the props. Hookers, Mears has got to go seeing as he's not a bad hooker, was good enough to play a Lions test while Hartley has never played well for England.

Not saying I disagree with you, but Lamb will never nick Wilkinson's place in the squad. Also at centre Flutey & Hape will be in there because Johnson likes them (they're not bad players either), and Dom Waldouck really deserves a go, seeing as he'd make most people's GP XVs of the season.

Otherwise I'd far rather have Noah Cato than certainly Banahan, although this is unlikely to happen.
 
Here is who i would take based on who i like and have been impressed with this season. I know Johnson won't take half of these but still!

Props
Matt Mullan, John Golding, David Flatman, Dan Cole, Dave Wilson

Hookers
Dylan Hartley, Lee Mears, Rob Webber

Second Rows
Courtney Lawes, Simon Shaw, Dave Attwood, Nick Kennedy, James Gaskell

Flankers
Tom Croft, Lewis Moody, Steffon Armitage, Tom Rees, James Haskell, Andy Saul

Number 8s
Phil Dowson, Dan Ward-Smith, Nick Easter, Jordan Crane

Scrum Halves
Danny Care, Ben Youngs, Joe Simpson

Fly Halves
Toby Flood, Shane Geraghty, Stephen Myler

Centres
Anothony Allen, Olly Barkley, Jordan Turner-Hall, John Clarke, Mathew Tait, Dan Hipkiss

Wingers
Matt Banahan, Chris Ashton, Mark Cueto, James Simpson-Daniel, Lesley Vainikolo

FullBacks
Ben Foden, Nick Abendanon, Delon Armitage, Alex Goode

And from that my first team would be

1. David Flatman
2. Dylan Hartley
3. Dan Cole
4. Courtney Lawes
5. Simon Shaw
6. Phil Dowson
7. Steffon Armitage
8. Dan Ward-Smith
9. Ben Youngs
10. Toby Flood
11. Matt Banahan
12. Olly Barkley
13. Mathew Tait
14. Chris Ashton
15. Ben Foden

16. Lee Mears
17. Dave Wilson
18. Nick Kennedy
19. Tom Croft
20. Danny Care
21. Shane Geraghty
22. John Clarke
 
Agree with pretty much all of your squad (44man) SecondRow, thought isn't Gaskell still injured? Also, Vainikolo should be swapped with Cato. I think Tindall will probably tour as well
Can't imagine Johnson putting him straight into the main squad either, i expect him to be in the Saxons, then full squad by next 6N, though would love to be proved wrong

My 22 would be:

1. Matt Mullan
2. Dylan Hartley
3. Dan Cole
4. Courtney Lawes
5. Simon Shaw
6. Tom Croft
7. Steffon Armitage
8. Jordan Crane
9. Danny Care
10. Toby Flood
11. Mark Cueto
12. Olly Barkley
13. Mathew Tait
14. Chris Ashton
15. Ben Foden

16. Lee Mears
17. Dave Wilson
18. Nick Kennedy
19. James Haskell
20. Ben Youngs
21. Shane Geraghty
22. Noah Cato



However, like you said, it'll probably just be the 6N squad, with people brought in to cover any injuries
 
Last edited:
Firstly:
Hookers
Hartley, Thompson, ***terell
Ok, I've really got no idea what the response will be. Hartley is probably the best bet in the long run but he hasn't been fantastic in previous internationals. Thompson has been pretty good when he came on, and has looked very good at Brive, so doesn't deserve dropping in my mind. ***terell is still a great player to me, and I'd have him in instead of Mears or Paice or whoever else. Hartley to start with Thompson on the bench.

:O ***terell instead of Mears, you have got to be joking.


Flyhalves
Flood, Myler, Lamb
Flood has performed well enough, although by no means perfectly. Myler and Lamb have both been pretty good at club level, but are mostly there because Geraghty fails to impress me, and I'd rather have Duncan Bell than Jonny Wilkinson.
Flood to start, with Myler on the bench.
Wilkinson has to go, still has a role to play with England, someone to come off the bench in the last 10 minutes and slot home a drop goal or kick a pressure kick. Lamb is the most inconsistent player i've ever seen, can be brilliant, can be shockingly bad.


(italics first choice)

Props:

Golding, Mullan, Flatman, Cole, Wilson, Vickery

Hooker:
Hartley, Mears, Thompson, Webber

Lock:
Shaw, Lawes, Palmer, Kennedy, Parling

Flanker:
Haskell, Rees (c), Moody, Armitage, Croft, Robshaw

Eight:
Ward-Smith, Dowson,Easter

Scrum-Half

Youngs, Care, Hodgson, Simpson

Fly-Half
Flood, Wilkinson, Geraghty

Wing:
Ashton, Monye, Banahan, Cueto

Centre:
Barkley, Tait, Tindall, Waldouck, Allen

Full-Back:
Foden, Armitage, Abendanon, Goode

Therefore, a test team of:

1. Golding
2. Mears
3. Cole
4. Shaw
5. Lawes
6. Moody
7. Rees (c)
8. Ward-Smith
9. Youngs
10. Flood
11. Ashton
12. Barkley
13. Tindall
14. Cueto
15. Foden
 
Last edited:
Vainikolo should be swapped with Cato.

I can understand this, i have always like vainikolo and feel he has improved a lot this season. I have not been that impressed with Cato this season as apposed to last but he is a talent and should be in the saxons at least. I would like Ojo as an outside bet.
 
England Squad:

Forwards:

Steffon Armitage London Irish
*David Atwood Gloucester Rugby
Dan Cole Leicester Tigers
Tom Croft Leicester Tigers
Paul Doran-Jones Gloucester Rugby
Nick Easter Harlequins
David Flatman Bath Rugby
*Hendre Fourie Leeds Carnegie
*Jon Golding Newcastle Falcons
Dylan Hartley Northampton Saints
James Haskell Stade Francais
Courtney Lawes Northampton Saints
Lee Mears Bath Rugby
Lewis Moody Leicester Tigers
Tom Palmer Stade Francais
*Geoff Parling Leicester Tigers
Tim Payne London Wasps
Chris Robshaw Harlequins
Simon Shaw London Wasps
Steve Thompson CA Brive
*Dan Ward-Smith London Wasps
*Rob Webber London Wasps
Dave Wilson Bath Rugby
Joe Worsley London Wasps

Backs:

Delon Armitage London Irish
Chris Ashton Northampton Saints
Matt Banahan Bath Rugby
Olly Barkley Bath Rugby
Danny Care Harlequins
Mark Cueto Sale Sharks
Toby Flood Leicester Tigers
Ben Foden Northampton Saints
Shane Geraghty Northampton Saints
*Shontayne Hape Bath Rugby
Charlie Hodgson Sale Sharks
Ugo Monye Harlequins
*Joe Simpson London Wasps
David Strettle Harlequins
Mathew Tait Sale Sharks
Mike Tindall Gloucester Rugby
*Dominic Waldouck London Wasps
Richard Wigglesworth Sale Sharks
Jonny Wilkinson RC Toulon
Ben Youngs Leicester Tigers
 
Last edited:
Predictable lineup.

**** knows why Hape keeps getting in the fringes though. He's shite and not even English.
 
Man, that hurts my brain trying to read that :p

BBC says "South-African born Hendre Fourie and former New Zealand rugby league star Shontane Hape have also been selected.".......f***s sake Johnson, just pick English players. Hopefully the inclusion of Barkley in the squad will mean Hape doesn't see game time (they're both 12's aren't they?)

It's on here if anyone can't decipher the post above :p http://www.rfu.com/News/2010/May/News%20Articles/110510_Summer_EPS_announcement.aspx


Good to see Wigglesworth touring, he's played well this season. Odd to see Charlie Hodgson included, though he has been solid this season/it's pretty much thanks to him that Sale didn't go down, he's never done too well as an England player.
Tim Payne still in there :(:(
No Borthwick though, so hopefully Lawes will get some decent game time


There's a lot of players missing from that squad who deserve to be there, and a few in there who don't deserve to be there, but it's better than i was expecting/the other squads since Johnson has been in charge
 
Last edited:
Tom Rees not in the squad - what the ****? Doran Jones, Payne, Wigglesworth and Hodgson? Ridiculous. Mullan is a much better player than Payne, Paul Hodgson is a far superior player to Wiggleswoth, Rees and Dowson better than Fourie, Armitage and Worsley. No Abendanon, no Goode, no Allen.

Grrrrr

***No Louis Deacon! Joy!***
 
Last edited:
I don't think Shaw should be given a lot of game time. By all means take him to help settle the new guys in, I would just like to see Lawes take over his place as the brute.

I like making line-ups, even if I don't really know the players, so here goes:

1 Flatman
2 Mears
3 Cole
4 Lawes
5 Parling
6 Croft
7 Moody
8 -I actually have no idea here-
9 Youngs
10 Flood
11 Ashton
12 Barkley
13 Tindall (If he plays like he did v France.)
14 Cueto
15 Foden
 
Very predictable squad indeed, who does John Clarke and Phil Dowson have to blow to get into the senior squad. Hape gets in over him?

I agree with Olyy in that there is a lot of players missing who deserve to to be there and too many people who dont deserve to be in there (yes Tim Payne im talking to you). Hopefully the deserving form players will get a decent amount of game time
 
Saxons

Forwards
Duncan Bell (Bath Rugby)
Nathan Catt (Bath Rugby)
Alex Corbiserio (London Irish)
Phil Dowson (Northampton Saints)
Graham Kitchener (Worcester Warriors)
Stuart Hooper (Bath Rugby)
Tom Lindsay (London Wasps)
Luke Narraway (Gloucester Rugby)
David Paice (London Irish)
Tom Rees (London Wasps)
Andy Saull (Saracens)
George Skivington (London Wasps)
Rob Vickers (Newcastle Falcons)
Nick Wood (Gloucester Rugby)
Tom Wood (Worcester Warriors)

Backs
Nick Abendanon (Bath Rugby)
Anthony Allen (Leicester Tigers)
Brad Barritt (Saracens)
Jon Clarke (Northampton Saints)
Alex Goode (Saracens)
Paul Hodgson (London Irish)
Stephen Myler (Northampton Saints)
James Simpson-Daniel (Gloucester Rugby)
Ollie Smith (Montpellier)
Tom Varndell (London Wasps)
Micky Young (Newcastle Falcons)
 
No Clarke, Allen, Paul Hodgson, Dowson, Mullan (thanks for the reminder whoever it was)
This makes me sad. :(

Also, can someone merge the threads? Two conversations about the same thing confuses me.
 
1 Flatman
2 Hartley
3 Cole
4 Lawes
5 Shaw
6 Croft
7 Moody (C)
8 Haskell
9 Care
10 Flood/Wilinson (both in superb form, think a game each wouldnt be a bad thing, possibly with one of them at 12)
11 Ashton
12 Barkley
13 Tindall
14 Cueto
15 Foden
 
I'd like to see Flood at 10 with Geraghty on the bench for the Baa Baas game at the very least, Geraghty performed very well for the saxons at 10, showing that it was just Johnson playing him out of position that effected him in the autumn internationals.
Apart from that, that's the XV i'd like to see, with Steffon Armitage on the bench (Moody starting because he's captain these days, otherwise Armitage would be my first choice 7).
 
Never heard of this Fourie dude until he gets picked for England. He's either improved 500% since he left SA or English rugby is not good at all at the moment.

Bloemfontein – "I don't think I would even have played Currie Cup rugby had I stayed in South Africa."

That was the reaction of flank forward Hendré Fourie following his inclusion in the English rugby squad for the tour of Australia and New Zealand.

"Prior to my decision to continue my career in England I had trained with Griquas for a while, but could not get a contract. Eastern Province were later interested in contracting me, but by then I had already decided to continue my career at English club Rotherham," Fourie told Sport24.

Fourie, 29, also could not manage to forge a rugby career at Free State.

In 2003 he was axed by the Free State selectors following a tour to Argentina, after which a shoulder injury prevented him from being contracted by the Cheetahs in 2004.

"I think Rassie Erasmus (former Free State Vodacom Cup coach) would have contracted me in 2004 had I not been injured. But I only represented Free State at Vodacom Cup level when someone was injured," he said.

It was not just at provincial level where Fourie struggled to make his mark. As a pupil at Burgersdorp High School in 1998 he also did not make the North Eastern Cape Craven Week side.

His career only gained momentum in 2001 when he played for a university residence team.

In the same year he was asked by Burgersdorp town team coach Gert Goosen to help out on the flank.

"After that I was spotted by the selectors of Free State Country Districts. Johan du Plessis of Police then approached me to play for the club side.

"In 2002 Volksblad's rugby writers named me Free State's club player of the year, after which Pote Human approached me to play for Shimlas.

"It was always a goal to play for Shimlas after I once played for Victorians (Maties' second team)."

Fourie said that a former fitness coach of Shimlas, Johan Myburg, had told him in 2005 that former Free State hooker André Bester, who was coaching Rotherham, needed a flank.

"I then decided to play for Rotherham with Errie Claassen (brother of Springbok scrumhalf Michael), Lood Strauss and Jannie Bornmann.

"There I started training in the gym three times a week. I could not do that at Free State as I could not train in the SuperSport Gymnasium after being axed. I also did not have enough money to pay my own membership."

These days Fourie is playing for English Premier League side Leeds Carnegie.

"My rugby has improved a lot, but you always need someone like Neil Back (former English flank) to give you a boost."

http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/England-callup-thrills-Fourie-20100512

Damn he couldn't hack it in any first class comps in the country. Kudos to him though for making it.
 
My first 15 (with the squad Johnnos chosen)

1 - David Flatman
2 - Lea Meers
3 - Dan Cole
4 - Courtney Lawes
5 - Tom Palmer
6 - Tom Croft
7 - Steffon Armitage
8 - Jamie Haskell
9 - Ben Youngs
10 - Toby Flood
11 - Chris Ashton
12 - Ollie Barkley
13 - Hape/Waldouck
14 - Strettle
15 - Ben Foden
 
Top