England vs South Africa 20 / 11 / 2021

[nh206]

I still do not understand why Etzebeth was penalised for that turnover in the latter stages of the first half against Scotland. What was the rationalisation for that?

The ref's explanation at the time was that he put his hands on the floor [to balance and therefore not supporting his weight on his feet] first before getting on the ball. Jamie Ritchie was penalised for the same thing earlier in the game. However, Ritchie was always awarded a turnover / holding on pen successfully in the first half when doing so. Obviously the ref was striving for consistency but that movement happens incredibly quickly and is easily missed. It's been pinged quite a lot recently though so it's obviously something refs have been told to look for.

 

[ncurd]

The ref's explanation at the time was that he put his hands on the floor [to balance and therefore not supporting his weight on his feet] first before getting on the ball. Jamie Ritchie was penalised for the same thing earlier in the game. However, Ritchie was always awarded a turnover / holding on pen successfully in the first half when doing so. Obviously the ref was striving for consistency but that movement happens incredibly quickly and is easily missed. It's been pinged quite a lot recently though so it's obviously something refs have been told to look for.

Barnes is a stickler for that one, he is also on the lookout for people supporting themselves on the ball rather than trying to lift it.

Wish it were pinged more.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Don't be so rude about Dan Cole

Who's playing his best rugby in years might I add

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Who's playing his best rugby in years might I add

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

That last stat really got me Ultimate rugby.

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

View attachment 12518

That last stat really got me Ultimate rugby.

So insightful

 

[OllyM97]

Cannot believe the bookies' odds for this game. They've got it as a virtual tie in terms of favouritism. As an England fan I'm not expecting anything out of this one. We're bedding in a new pack, we're missing Farrell and George and we're playing the best team in the world (and at the moment the rankings don't lie). Unusually for a game at Twickenham, I think we're heavy underdogs. I think if we get within 10 points of the Boks that's a decent showing. I just worry about our scrum with Genge out and Marler possibly out. Could be a long day at the office for our pack. I think SA will suffocate us like they did in the RWC final.

 

[Jimbo]

On the flip side England probably have a couple of selection improvements since World Cup, A 10 who is capable of making things happen and is unlikely to follow a game plan which is obviously failing, an actual FB who on current evidence is the real deal and should take care of business at the back (appreciate this will be a far stiffer test than he's previously had).

 

[unrated]

Its at Twikenham, England are favourites no matter the opposition, our record at Twickenham is not that great even with The Rassie brain trust

 

[ncurd]

Its at Twikenham, England are favourites no matter the opposition, our record at Twickenham is not that great even with The Rassie brain trust

The head to head 11-10 in SA favour (with 1 draw) and most of that for England relies on 6 games played between 1998 and 2006.

SA always feel more our bogey team than NZ (record do not back this up). They could be having a poor NH tour and it still feels like we'd loose.

 

[Which Tyler]

For die bokke

 

[unrated]

The head to head 11-10 in SA favour (with 1 draw) and most of that for England relies on 6 games played between 1998 and 2006.

SA always feel more our bogey team than NZ (record do not back this up). They could be having a poor NH tour and it still feels like we'd loose.

It seems it's one of those games where both sets of fans reject the favourites tag

 

[TRF_Olyy]

SA saying they're not favourites feels like false modesty, tbh

We were battered last time we played SA and look significantly worse than we did on that run to the Final, and have a much weakened front row (which was heavily targeted in our last meeting)

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

SA saying they're not favourites feels like false modesty, tbh

We were battered last time we played SA and look significantly worse than we did on that run to the Final, and have a much weakened front row (which was heavily targeted in our last meeting)

LOL I honestly can't say I *feel* like we are favorites. If I have to put money on it, sure.. I'd posibly/probably put it on us by a small margin but I certainly can see England taking it at home. Feels more like a coin toss than a situation where I think anyone can either claim or shrug off any sort of favoriets tag. Not away from home and on our last game of an EoYT in what was a very long year rugby wise coming back from the cold.

You say your team is without your 1st choice front row ITO the scrum. My feeling is the scrum is the one area where I feel we have it in any case so no loss there and it is an area of the game that can be played around, at least on your own put ins.

I say we are heavily weakened as well- No PSdT, Kolbe or Faf. Those 3 are huge for us. There are otehrs but TBH we aren't missing the likes of Malherbe as we have the depth to cope. Bigger than Malherbe and Snyman not being available is the form of some of our players in key positions. Le Roux and Pollard have been dire. At least we've moved H Jantjies to the bench- he's been the worst of the bunch. And then Vermeulen though solid hasn't been on top of his game, not like 2019 Vermeulen. So its only really the tight 5 and our centers where we are feeling 100% ourselves. Kolisi and Mapimpi have been excellent mind. But still, that leaves us at 9/15 players in who I have confidence.

 

[RedruthRFC]

SA saying they're not favourites feels like false modesty, tbh

We were battered last time we played SA and look significantly worse than we did on that run to the Final, and have a much weakened front row (which was heavily targeted in our last meeting)

The exchanges have it closer than I would, SA are 1.79 favorites. Looks like value to me.

 

[Lé Ddanno]

If Marler doesn't start our pack is going to have somewhere in the region of 220 caps, and the squad as a whole could have fewer than 450, with Youngs accounting for 22% of those on his own.

 

[Jashay]

Eh, not too worried about that; it really depends on the player. I'd have picked 5-cap Tom Curry over 50-cap Tom Wood back then, and I'd pick any of Quirke, Randall, Mitchell, or Robson over 100+ caps Ben Youngs now. Steward over Daly, etc.

If anything I like the lack of caps in the Autumn games; people are either getting experience or opportunities. Look at Rodd; how far down the pecking order was he? Doubt he was top 5, now he's got a chance to test himself against the best scrum in the world. I reckon it would have been years before we saw him at all, let alone put him in against a big team.

Maybe it won't come to anything, but I'll never be against people getting opportunities in games that aren't going to cost us any trophies.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Experience in the front row is definitely an issue (though there's only one way to get experience, I guess!)

Front rowers average at 16 caps per player, take Marler out and it's 9, take Sinckler out and it's 3

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Experience in the front row is definitely an issue (though there's only one way to get experience, I guess!)

Club level would be a start! Blamire has only 3 Premiership starts and Rodd 15. Blimey, ESPN shows Davison at nearly 30 as only having 23 starts.

Ox has only got 7 caps but has been around for a while with more than 100 senior appearances. Koch has 30 caps with the other 4 all having 45+.

I'm assuming that Marler must be in line to play otherwise surely Mako, for all the scrummaging criticisms, would be called up. Surely we couldn't go into a test v the Boks with 2 out of Rodd, Davison and Elrington on the LH? I know precisely nothing about Elrington. Rodd is a good prospect but this is the kind of game where he could either make a name for himself or see his progress set back.

Singleton must surely start at 2 on the basis that he has more experience from having been in the club game for a few years.

 

[MikeTheNative]

To me if your good enough your old enough..... but saying that letting the entire inexperienced front row go up against SA is a big ask.