England vs New Zealand - 19/11/22

[Duck a l'Orange]

Leaked England 15 according to the reputable source that is Ruck:

15. Steward
14. Nowell
13. Tuilagi
12. Farrell
11. May
10. Smith
9. JVP
8. Vunipola
7. Curry
6. Simmonds
5. Itoje
4. Hill
3. Sinckler
2. LCD
1. Genge

 

[Geordie]

Not far off expected if thats the side. Doesnt have me jumping with excitement

Im pretty sure we can all think of players outside the squad that would really enhance it.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Leaked England 15 according to the reputable source that is Ruck:

15. Steward
14. Nowell
13. Tuilagi
12. Farrell
11. May
10. Smith
9. JVP
8. Vunipola
7. Curry
6. Simmonds
5. Itoje
4. Hill
3. Sinckler
2. LCD
1. Genge

If you think that's uninspiring I'll raise you

Corbisiero, T Youngs, Cole, Launchbury, Parling, Wood, Robshaw, Morgan, B Youngs, Farrell, Brown, Barritt, Tuilagi, Ashton, Goode.

Bench of Care, Burns, Joseph, M Vunipola, Paice, Lawes, Wilson and Haskell.

Oh wait…..

 

[Which Tyler]

Itoje at lock, and JvP > Youngs - I would definitely take that

 

[Scotty]

Leaked England 15 according to the reputable source that is Ruck:

15. Steward
14. Nowell
13. Tuilagi
12. Farrell
11. May
10. Smith
9. JVP
8. Vunipola
7. Curry
6. Simmonds
5. Itoje
4. Hill
3. Sinckler
2. LCD
1. Genge

God i hope not. Smith Faz Manu is just not that scary, least we have some pace on the wing but Nowell is actually not great anymore.

What are we expecting for the bench if this is the 15.

George
Mako
Hayes
Coles
Willis
Youngs
Slade
Freeman (likely Porter)

Something like that?

 

[TommiG88]

Just been offered a hospitality ticket but turned it down. There's just too much form filling these days.

You just don't tell anyone

 

[Duck a l'Orange]

If you think that's uninspiring I'll raise you

Corbisiero, T Youngs, Cole, Launchbury, Parling, Wood, Robshaw, Morgan, B Youngs, Farrell, Brown, Barritt, Tuilagi, Ashton, Goode.

Bench of Care, Burns, Joseph, M Vunipola, Paice, Lawes, Wilson and Haskell.

Oh wait…..

I'd actually be interested to see that side play the current England. Obviously their average game was nowhere near the level they hit in December 2012.

2012 Tuilagi would cause 2022 Tuilagi some serious issues...

 

[AlRums]

I'd actually be interested to see that side play the current England. Obviously their average game was nowhere near the level they hit in December 2012.

2012 Tuilagi would cause 2022 Tuilagi some serious issues...

The fact Tuilagi was 10 years younger, fitter and faster not a factor?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Itoje at lock, and JvP > Youngs - I would definitely take that

Same - I even quite like that backrow on paper

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

George
Mako
Hayes
Coles
Willis
Youngs
Slade
Freeman (likely Porter)

Stuart has replaced Heyes in the 25.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Its only close to gaslighting because you seemed to believe we had actually forgotten and kept going on about it….no one else believed that was an actual possibility

It's the tactic used rather than the "forgetting" the match. Pretending something doesn't exist and then blaming the other person for not getting the "joke". It's Dickish humour and it'a the same tactic that gaslighters use. Not appreciated especially on a discussion board when no emojis are used.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Anyway rewatched the 2019 match and forgot how much England really pushed back the AB's to play in their half for most of the match and run from deep. They really only got into England's third once and scored from a Ardie's try which was gift from George's missthrow. Only other time England beat the ABs was 2012 And common theme from both smash them both at the breakdown and the latter with rush defence.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Stuff

www.stuff.co.nz

One player who certainly hasn't forgotten 2019.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

2012 Tuilagi would cause 2022 Tuilagi some serious issues...

Some quick Tuilagi maths. I reckon his numbers stack up something like:

From debut in Aug 11 to Dec 2012 ABs win, so 16 months - 17 caps, all starts. 9 tries.

Subsequently to Oct 2019 RWC SF win, so just shy of 7 years - just 16 starts + 7 bench appearances. 8 tries. 13 of these 23 appearances were in his annus mirabilis (sorry, I've just been watching The Crown) of 2019.

We know his story but that's pretty stark.

 

[Umaga's Witness]

.

Stuff

www.stuff.co.nz

One player who certainly hasn't forgotten 2019.

I think foster has overreacted to this game; trying to develop a team that relies too much on playing what's in front of them, instead of structure, because england figured out our structure and we had no plan B.

But you can have both; structure can provide options from which the players can still play what's in front of them in terms of choosing the right option, or you can have optional structures.

The rest of the world is evolving, led by Ireland, their attacking structures, and we are going backwards.

Or do we just keep our structures up our sleeves?

So will be interesting to see what happens here. Do we introduce a structure that england haven't seen? I suspect we might.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

I think foster has overreacted to this game; trying to develop a team that relies too much on playing what's in front of them, instead of structure, because england figured out our structure and we had no plan B.

But you can have both; structure can provide options from which the players can still play what's in front of them in terms of choosing the right option, or you can have optional structures.

The rest of the world is evolving, led by Ireland, their attacking structures, and we are going backwards.

Or do we just keep our structures up our sleeves?

So will be interesting to see what happens here. Do we introduce a structure that england haven't seen? I suspect we might.

agreed, was just talking to someone about clarke, he's getting some flake and some of it is justified....but we also almost never do a full backline flush from right to left, hardly ever actually put him in space, all his opportunities are either on the counter or coming in from the blind side on the crash.

I find it really surprising as even at club level we talk about right to left back lines moves being the easiest, most peoples dominant pass etc, its one of the reasons we've seen big finishing wingers on the left (lomu, savea, RI, clarke) and more often a second 15 on the right (jane, NMS, jordan, smith)...and we keep that structure but dont play too it

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Or do we just keep our structures up our sleeves?

So will be interesting to see what happens here. Do we introduce a structure that england haven't seen? I suspect we might.

Eddie's got bigger sleeves than you could ever dream of. He's been keeping our attacking master plan up them for years. And quite a bit of our defensive game.

When he finally shows his hand his vow to make us the greatest team in history will look like classic English understatement.

Or not.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

Eddie's got bigger sleeves than you could ever dream of. He's been keeping our attacking master plan up them for years. And quite a bit of our defensive game.

When he finally shows his hand his vow to make us the greatest team in history will look like classic English understatement.

View attachment 15499

Or not.

starting to feel like a cage match between two mr magoo's

 

[Umaga's Witness]

Eddie's got bigger sleeves than you could ever dream of. He's been keeping our attacking master plan up them for years. And quite a bit of our defensive game.

When he finally shows his hand his vow to make us the greatest team in history will look like classic English understatement.

View attachment 15499

Or not.

Don't forget we have Schmidt now; he was keeping plans up his sleeve prior to the last World Cup and never ending up showing them . Why? He knew he'd be coaching with the all blacks for the next World Cup and he could use them then.

 

[Umaga's Witness]

agreed, was just talking to someone about clarke, he's getting some flake and some of it is justified....but we also almost never do a full backline flush from right to left, hardly ever actually put him in space, all his opportunities are either on the counter or coming in from the blind side on the crash.

I find it really surprising as even at club level we talk about right to left back lines moves being the easiest, most peoples dominant pass etc, its one of the reasons we've seen big finishing wingers on the left (lomu, savea, RI, clarke) and more often a second 15 on the right (jane, NMS, jordan, smith)...and we keep that structure but dont play too it

I was reading comments on a stuff article (should generally not do that, bad for the health) and someone mentioned Clarke had 4 tries in 14 tests. That's not the strike rate of an all black left wing.