England vs Italy - 10/03/2013

[Peat]

Did Castro go off early injured?

Yes.

Remember Brown is a fullback and not a winger - he's just being put on the wing cause England are going down the most boring and safe path possible (as you mentioned).

The irritating thing is it's not safe. We have repeatedly got torn apart outside wide, it's turning into a major weakness and North and Cuthbert must be salivating at the prospect. In terms of people running at them, we possibly have the worst back three defence in the Championship.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I'd love it if our back three was just a big ruse to build up to May coming in to the side vs Wales and just dancing around/embarrassing Cuthbert all match.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Completely agree that our current back three is not a safe option at all, the wingers are consistently caught out of position.

I think the issue now is that we don't really have an opportunity to fully rectify the situation we are now in, in terms of selection.
We have one more match, one that the coaches will not "experiment" in, and then a summer tour in which a significant amount of the team (not to mention coaches) will be missing which does not give new players coming in the easiest time.

When are we going to be able to try out our options in a reliable way?
If the goal is 2015, then we are leaving it a little close. There is now one 6N between now and that tournament.

 

[Peat]

They'll just have to make the most of the summer - although the worry is we'll see much the same back three in the summer. It's not like the Lions are going to want them after all this! Hopefully we'll see some rotation there, and in the autumn too.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

After watching the Quins vs Bath game - I don't understand how Mike Brown was selected over Nick Abendanon on the wing!
Brown is a bloody good fullback, but Abendanon is as well and has a decent amount of wing experience. If we were going to play two fullbacks he should be the obvious choice.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

I think Fllod, Barritt, Ashton all need to go.

1 Mako
2 Youngs
3 Cole
4 Launch/ Lawes - injury depending
5 Parking (hope he's fit)
6 Wood
7 Robshaw
8 Vunipola
9 Care? Neither care nor youngs played well
10 Burns or Farrell if he's back
11 Brown
12 12trees baritt was terrible
13 Tuilagi
14 May? Wade? Anyone? are there any wingers in egland? Lancaster doesn't seem aware of any?
15 Goode

I think the front 5 played well but the back row needs a bit more balance, they need a big ball carrying 8 back and until Morgan returns i'd try vunipola. Croft looked light weight and made no impact.

The half books need to be changed as well, Flood did a lot but none of it really any good, him and baritt don't seem to function together at all and i can't belive how much we missed Farrells distibution.

Ahston's defence was terrible and he needs to be replaced with a try scorer, sarries have damaged him. I don't know who out of May, Wade, Vardnell etc will be next in line but i am afraid it's strettle (another wing who can;'t score tries!)

I just hope lancaster makes seom changes!

 

[McTallshort]

Calm down dears it was still a win.....

For the record Barriet does not deserve the flak he is getting on here, he plays better outside Farrell and did not do a great deal wrong. The line speed in defense was not as good as it had been in recent games with Italy given more time on the ball than we allowed France and Ireland to have. The pack have had better games but the elephant in the room has to be Danny Care, his box kicking was terrible I really cannot understand the how people can moan about Youngs after that shocking display. Flood wasnt much cop either. Farrell and Youngs have to start against Wales and Ashton needs dropping. The back row all need to carry more too, Launchbury was anonymous in all aspects of the game.

Could be better but still on for the slam.

 

[smb64]

I think a trade of Foden in for Goode could work. Ashton always played well off Foden's attack/counter attacking prowess and I believe Brown would to. An on form Foden would provide the spark we need.

And it annoys me why we play Ashton for his experience and proven try scoring ability - so why not play Foden for his experience and proven attacking qualities?

Keeping my fingers crossed for the return of Morgan next week to!

 

[Big Ewis]

say, a question to the "board" here, is anyone allowed to start the official match threads, or should we wait for the TRF guys to do it ?
No pressure fellas, just curious.

 

[Crapspray]

For the record Barriet does not deserve the flak he is getting on here, he plays better outside Farrell and did not do a great deal wrong.

Except he butchered a try in open play by taking the ball into contact, something he did against France as well. He's great defensively, and I think it'll be best to start him against Wales, but he really isn't going to be an attacking threat. He boshes, but not as well as Tuilagi, and because he's selected Goode has to be as a second receiver. I'd far rather the inside centre did that job and we can move Brown/Foden (when he's back in form) to fullback and get a second wing who might actually get passed to. I believe England would gain a lot more in attack than they would lose in defence if Barrit was replaced by Twelvetrees.

However, for this Six Nations the team is not going to really change. I can only hope Morgan comes backs at 8, Haskell on the bench, Marler starts again, and the half-backs are swapped back to Youngs and Farrell.

If the goal is 2015, then we are leaving it a little close. There is now one 6N between now and that tournament.

The World Cup is in the autumn, surely? So that would mean two Six Nations, two summer tours (Argentina and New Zealand), a Lions tour, two Autumn International series, and world cup warm-ups. A good 20-30 games.

 

[mstar]

I still scratch my head on the game.
ok lets start with the players worthy discussion.

Ashton - ran a lot of good lines but due to the pressure and defense of Italy restricted him somewhat. Really i cannot fault him in this game its hard to star in a game like this. BUt the play, running and intent is there. Lancaster will keep him for the next game.

Tuilagi - was kept quiet by the Italy centres and didn't look his explosive self, looked a little subdued and without the ball is largely ineffective. Other then a big hit tackled he was not his usual self.

Barrit - tackled, had good positioning but the game was more his style but Italy really had more of the game. 12T didn't offer any improvement when he left due to the nature of the game. Probably been better to keep him on the pitch for this kind of game (2nd half)

Care - I am seriously thinking that maybe youngs just does offer that little bit more composure under pressure? the kick led to a try was at this level not acceptable is it? does anybody else think he just doesn't fit into the way Lancaster wants to play? But for sure must be applauded for trying different things like running against props to create openings. Is more attacking minded then youngs but youngs seems more solid.

FLood - i just don't know about floody anymore he seems another (like care) who doesn't quote gel into the side/lancasters way of playing. He plays more flatter but takes it on himself which left him isolated for a few seconds until supporting players joined at the breakdown -risky and something Farell doesn't do unless running with the ball in hand is "on". Is more attacking but i just think he doesn't fit with the ideology how the side wants to play/lancaster wants. I can't see him playing ahead of burns to be honest from now on. Missed some corner kicks which someone like him is not acceptable with the number of caps he has. He tried to get the forwards working but Italy just kept England on the back foot.

Wood - playing out of position is going to be exposed one day and compared to his opposite number he surely was out-played. Its not woods fault his commitment, work rate is second to none but his position play as a 8 is not there as regular 8's. Just his sheer determination, doggedness, commitment gets him through player out of position. oh boy do we miss morgans runs from the base of the scrum. Overall not woods doing did what he was asked to do but his best position is back at 6 where he played before, another combative performance.

T Youngs - played with really energy and i can't see why he be left out of the Wales match. He just better in the loose isn't he? VERY quick for a prop due to his low centre of gravity and has great ball carrying ability. PLayed well but had to play more on the back foot. Scrum seemed ok with him at the centre.

Mako Vunilpola - played well, but is it necessary to carry a spare type mako?? GOod in scrum and a nuisance in the loose gets stuck in to the rucks and in the loose is very underrated. I expect him to start in wales.

Subs: Lawes - what confidence and guts from courtney (and robshaw to back his lineout team) with 3 mins and few metres from touchline he wanted to fight for the lineout steal from Italy throw in! -and won it. I hope he plays as it looks possibility parling is injured but it seems JL and lawes have doubts for wales game. In the other games no other team had the balls to do this in a tight game. Rowntree afterwards kept banging on about how crucial and gutsy that was and seemed really proud -says all u need to know about how England played.

 

[ratsapprentice]

The World Cup is in the autumn, surely? So that would mean two Six Nations, two summer tours (Argentina and New Zealand), a Lions tour, two Autumn International series, and world cup warm-ups. A good 20-30 games.

Woops, brain fart. This summer tour doesn't really count due to the Lions tour and the knock on effect that causes imo though.

 

[psychic duck]

The irritating thing is it's not safe. We have repeatedly got torn apart outside wide, it's turning into a major weakness and North and Cuthbert must be salivating at the prospect. In terms of people running at them, we possibly have the worst back three defence in the Championship.

However they won't get the chance as the ball doesn't go beyond the non-passing centres.

* Or just a simply **** pass to row Z if Jonathan Davies does attempt it.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

However they won't get the chance as the ball doesn't go beyond the non-passing centres.

* Or just a simply **** pass to row Z if Jonathan Davies does attempt it.

I'll swap you J Davies for Barritt? I think Davies runs better lines and just does more. Neither can really pass though or even know when to pass and when to take contact.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Injury update 1: locks Launchbury (elbow), Lawes (arm) & Parling (shoulder) main concerns post-ITA. Lancaster "optimistic" on all 3 for WAL.

Farrell is available, Ben Morgan is out and back with Glos.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

"England fly-half Owen Farrell and locks Joe Launchbury, Geoff Parling and Courtney Lawes set to be fit to face Wales on Saturday"

Great news

 

[B10]

Massive blow that Morgan is still out. Personally I'd chuck Billy V in at 8 and get some balance in the back row but theres no chance SL will debut him in this game.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Currently watching the match again. There was a great opportunity for Flood to give it to Ashton who was tracking across behind Manu/BB with Goode and Brown outside him in a 3 on 2 after the penalty at the scrum on 10mins... instead he just slovenly pops it to BB.
We have two carrying centers but we never use them as decoys.
Having said that, that could equally show how little confidence he had in Brown and Goode.

Would also love to see a number 8 in there, but agree it won't be Billy. Had Haskell had a good game I would have been happy to see him but he was anonymous.

 

[Joseph14]

Easter...

 

[mstar]

Agree Lancasters ego is getting in the way, whats wrong with bringing in Easter when morgan was injured? instead Wood has to pull the gap and no offence to WOod he has done it well but we need a BIG ball carrying 8 -specialist.

Re: Haskell
I actually didn't think he played badly it was just that lancaster had to change something and croft brings a lot to the game. Would he risk starting croft against Wales???