England Vs Ireland

[munstermuffin]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (snoopy snoopy dog dog @ Feb 23 2010, 01:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

That England team has me quaking in my boots..........

Happy with the Ireland team. I'd have Cullen in ahead of O'Callaghan but it's a tight call. Don't understand why Buckley is on the bench - can only assume Court is still injured since he missed last weekends Ulster game.[/b]

Court is fit just a call we'll trust Kidney to make.
Earls Bowe and Murphy can be a dangerous back 3 to counter attack english.

I think Cullen and DOC are same level only difference is DOC is much better in loose while Cullen is a master at lineout time.
Unsure about Timble on bench though I'd have picked Shaggy

 

[shazbooger]

Cant believe they kept O'Leary to be honest. If he was going to drop one of the half-backs I would have preferred O'Leary given the shite he fed out last week.

Cullen being dropped is ridiculous. He's been playing better than O'Connell.

 

[coonor]

our scrum will be strong. hope our lineout stays brilliant (best in tournement). Our big players (buckley,hayes,best,etc.) need to be very phsical.
Our backs are expieried and far better than englands.

PS. why do enland have so many people in their team that arnt from England. :blink:

 

[Olyy]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (coonor @ Feb 23 2010, 02:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

our scrum will be strong.[/b]

3 - John Hayes (Bruff/Munster)
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>

hope our lineout stays brilliant (best in tournement).[/b]

Englands lineout has performed better than Irelands. The jumpers anyway, the throwings not been amazing, but we've stolen more than our fair share, and worked well with the poor throwing

 

[gingergenius]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (coonor @ Feb 23 2010, 02:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

our scrum will be strong. hope our lineout stays brilliant (best in tournement). Our big players (buckley,hayes,best,etc.) need to be very phsical.
Our backs are expieried and far better than englands.

PS. why do enland have so many people in their team that arnt from England. :blink:[/b]

No scrum containing Cian Healy will ever be strong.

And define 'from England'. Flutey's the only dubious one.

 

[feicarsinn]

No Cullen?

Sexton good, O'Leary bad. Who gave Tony Buckley a green jersey? Seriously, wtf? We could do with a bit more Horgan in there too. Sigh...

 

[munstermuffin]

Lads been honest i agree TOL isn't on top form but well i'd pick him over Reddan but I'd have loved Stringer to be starting (not because i'm from Munster) because he is on form and his pass would give Sexton those extra 2seconds and Sexton has the ability to control this game easy.

Olyy The Bull well able to hold his own he has done it long enough.
I actually for once like the look of our front-row as all 3 players at different parts of career.

Ireland lineout has been superb and while Cullen is out and DOC in that call didn't worry me either way as they both at same level & I sure Cullen will get adequate game time and all 3 will make an impact.

 

[feicarsinn]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (munstermuffin @ Feb 23 2010, 04:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Lads been honest i agree TOL isn't on top form but well i'd pick him over Reddan but I'd have loved Stringer to be starting (not because i'm from Munster) because he is on form and his pass would give Sexton those extra 2seconds and Sexton has the ability to control this game easy.

Olyy The Bull well able to hold his own he has done it long enough.
I actually for once like the look of our front-row as all 3 players at different parts of career.

Ireland lineout has been superb and while Cullen is out and DOC in that call didn't worry me either way as they both at same level & I sure Cullen will get adequate game time and all 3 will make an impact.[/b]

Stringer is far from on for. If you'd seen the 'A' game a few weeks ago you'd know that full well. He's just not up to it at this level.

 

[coonor]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gingergenius @ Feb 23 2010, 03:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (coonor @ Feb 23 2010, 02:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

our scrum will be strong. hope our lineout stays brilliant (best in tournement). Our big players (buckley,hayes,best,etc.) need to be very phsical.
Our backs are expieried and far better than englands.

PS. why do enland have so many people in their team that arnt from England. :blink:[/b]

No scrum containing Cian Healy will ever be strong.

And define 'from England'. Flutey's the only dubious one.
[/b][/quote]

the armitage brothers-trinidad
Dylan hartley-new zealand
simon shaw-kenya
riki flutey-new zealand
Shontayne Hape-New Zealnd
matt banahan-Jersey

 

[Olyy]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (coonor @ Feb 23 2010, 06:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gingergenius @ Feb 23 2010, 03:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (coonor @ Feb 23 2010, 02:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

our scrum will be strong. hope our lineout stays brilliant (best in tournement). Our big players (buckley,hayes,best,etc.) need to be very phsical.
Our backs are expieried and far better than englands.

PS. why do enland have so many people in their team that arnt from England. :blink:[/b]

No scrum containing Cian Healy will ever be strong.

And define 'from England'. Flutey's the only dubious one.
[/b][/quote]

the armitage brothers-trinidad
Dylan hartley-new zealand
simon shaw-kenya
riki flutey-new zealand
Shontayne Hape-New Zealnd
matt banahan-Jersey
[/b][/quote]
Hartley and Shaw had/have English family, so that's like saying O'Gara should be playing for USA Eagles
Can see where you're coming from with Flutey and Hape (but people don't kick up a fuss about Nathan Hines do that?)
Didn't realise Banahan was from Jersey. According to wikipedia he played for West country youth, so has obviously been in the country for a while.

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (coonor @ Feb 23 2010, 06:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gingergenius @ Feb 23 2010, 03:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (coonor @ Feb 23 2010, 02:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

our scrum will be strong. hope our lineout stays brilliant (best in tournement). Our big players (buckley,hayes,best,etc.) need to be very phsical.
Our backs are expieried and far better than englands.

PS. why do enland have so many people in their team that arnt from England. :blink:[/b]

No scrum containing Cian Healy will ever be strong.

And define 'from England'. Flutey's the only dubious one.
[/b][/quote]

the armitage brothers-trinidad
Dylan hartley-new zealand
simon shaw-kenya
riki flutey-new zealand
Shontayne Hape-New Zealnd
matt banahan-Jersey
[/b][/quote]
Can we put together a recent "England" XV?

15. Delon Armitage
14. Barritt
13. Hape
12. Flutey
11. Vainikolo
10. Catt
9. Henry Paul (just so I can put in a complete set of backs)
1. Stevens
2. Hartley
3. Freshwater
4. Shaw
5. ?
6. Hendrie Fourie
7. Fatty Armitage
8. ?

Edit- I know Ireland have quite a few similar cases, Isaac Boss and Tom Court being recent examples

 

[gingergenius]

Of the current squad:

1. Simon Shaw. Being born outside of England means nothing. My Dad was born in Egypt thanks to the Army, but that doesn't make him Egyptian. Many people of English heritage happen to be born and in many cases raised outside of England due to factors like Army bases, ex-pat communities, etc. These people are no less English.

2. Dan Ward-Smith, Dylan Hartley. Both these people were born in NZ, and spent their adolescence there. Like other England players, (Catt, Stevens), we have another country to thank for their initial rugby education. But like Catt and Stevens, they both have recent English family. I see no problem here.

3. Delon Armitage, Steffon Armitage. These two reflect the fact that roughly 10% of England's population were born outside of England, but later moved in. The fact that both brothers began playing rugby in England, hold British passports etc. should mean there are no questions about their nationality.

4. Matt Banahan. Well if you're a rugby player in Jersey, who are you going to play for internationally? He played for an English club's academy (London Irish), so obviously them...

5. Riki Flutey, Shontayne Hape. Dodgy one here. No English family, no birth, no growing up here... I think the residency laws should require longer time in the country, but under the current rules these 2 are fine.

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gingergenius @ Feb 23 2010, 06:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

I think the residency laws should require longer time in the country, but under the current rules these 2 are fine.[/b]

Spot on. If rules dictate a player can play for a country after three years residency, a team would be foolish not to explore the option but I'd rather such a residency rule was extended to five years.

Edit - I've no issue with Simon Shaw playing for England since he's English through and through. The same goes for Ronan O'Gara (Irish parents though born in the USA) and Jamie Heaslip (born in Israel or Lebanon - not sure which) in an Irish context.

 

[coonor]

I'm not saying its a bad thing i was just woundering. I have nothing against people playing for a country that they call their home.
the problem is over here we always get branded as english while we are only in the united kingdom (not britain) i dont mind be called british but everything is english over here.

 

[feicarsinn]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (coonor @ Feb 23 2010, 07:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

I'm not saying its a bad thing i was just woundering. I have nothing against people playing for a country that they call their home.
the problem is over here we always get branded as english while we are only in the united kingdom (not britain) i dont mind be called british but everything is english over here.[/b]

News to me we're in the UK? Thought that was the whole point of the war of independance and external association and all that jazz.

 

[Olyy]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (feicarsinn @ Feb 23 2010, 07:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (coonor @ Feb 23 2010, 07:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm not saying its a bad thing i was just woundering. I have nothing against people playing for a country that they call their home.
the problem is over here we always get branded as english while we are only in the united kingdom (not britain) i dont mind be called british but everything is english over here.[/b]

News to me we're in the UK? Thought that was the whole point of the war of independance and external association and all that jazz.
[/b][/quote]
Coonor is from Guernsey

 

[gingergenius]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (feicarsinn @ Feb 23 2010, 07:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (coonor @ Feb 23 2010, 07:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm not saying its a bad thing i was just woundering. I have nothing against people playing for a country that they call their home.
the problem is over here we always get branded as english while we are only in the united kingdom (not britain) i dont mind be called british but everything is english over here.[/b]

News to me we're in the UK? Thought that was the whole point of the war of independance and external association and all that jazz.
[/b][/quote]

He be from Jersey...

 

[mulldog]

Ireland Team (My Changes):
15. G Murphy (Earls)
14. T Bowe
13. B O'Driscoll
12. G D'Arcy
11. K Earls (Trimble)
10. J Sexton
9. T O'Leary (Reddan)
1. C Healy
2. R Best
3. J Hayes
4. D O'Callaghan (Cullen)
5. P O'Connell
6. S Ferris
7. D Wallace
8. J Heaslip

Replacements:
16. S Cronin
17. T Buckley
18. L Cullen (O'Callaghan)
19. S Jennings
20. E Reddan (O'Leary)
21. R O'Gara
22. A Trimble (Horgan)

Don’t totally agree with Kidney's selection, if it were me I would have had Earls in at full back with Trimble on the wing. Defiantly is a tight call between Trimble and Horgan especially with Horgan playing well during the weekend and perhaps having the edge on Trimble in the experience department as well. However after the France game, Kidney should be concentrating on building for the World Cup and playing Trimble (25) in a game like this rather than Horgan (31) would be far more beneficial to this cause. Also if he had done this he would have seen whether Earls is capable in providing cover for Kearney in the future rather than starting Murphy who is only back from a long term injury and who is also not the youngest.

Glad to see Sexton at 10, think Reddan would have been a better choice at 9, as Sexton is more used to playing with him, and would be helpful to him as he will be only winning his 4th cap in a high pressure game against England at Twickenham. Would also give Kidney a chance to see what Reddan is made of as he has had little playing time under him.

Unsure about big Donncha at second row, hasn't been playing out of his skin for Munster this year, but you can't really fault him either I suppose. On form Leo Cullen should have got the nood in my opinion. Both players are getting on in years especially Cullen.

Best was the obvious choice to replace Flannery at hooker. I think he should be Ireland's number 1, he’s a good bit younger than Flannery (4 Years), and he also more solid in the scrum, which if a major weakness for Ireland at the moment. Flannerys line out throwing is superior but in saying that Best can still throw well.

Would like to see Jennings get some game time as he is an out and out number 7 and I feel Ireland need to explore their options there. If the scrum is going reasonably well I feel Ireland should give Cronin a run out as well.

The Game is a tight won to call; all depends on who plays well I suppose. Ireland by 5!!!

 

[Bullitt]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (coonor @ Feb 23 2010, 07:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

I'm not saying its a bad thing i was just woundering. I have nothing against people playing for a country that they call their home.
the problem is over here we always get branded as english while we are only in the united kingdom (not britain) i dont mind be called british but everything is english over here.[/b]

Most people outside the UK (especially Americans) don't understand the difference between English and British.

 

[coonor]

England have got some great idividuals espcially lewis moody (great player if on form). I think maybe the likes of O'driscoll and Darcy will threaten with their experience and pure skill. I think England Have the better forwards but it's all on the day